Riding a Cruzbike.

[Maverick1]

I'm never ridden a Cruzbike, however I've ridden another recumbent bike, the Bacchetta Giro 26 for the past 3 years with no problems , no crashes.
I have run into other cyclists on the trail a couple of times when they were not paying attention.
I find it amazing that people can ride a bike on a bicycle trail and not look where they're going, usually down at their cell phones, similar to many automobile drivers these days.
Since then I bought a very loud horn which has solved that problem.
I guess my question to everyone on this forum is, how difficult is it to learn how to ride a Cruzbike, since the drivetrain is on the front of the bike making it a front wheel drive bicycle?
Since the drivetrain and steering are on the same front wheel probably very challenging at first I would imagine.
I'm only interested in getting a V20 Cruzbike if it will increase my performance/speed.
I will eventually get myself a fast velomobile, like the Milan SL or a Snook, as it will help lengthen my riding season here in cold Canada .
Just like in my automobiles, with my bicycles, I have a need for speed.
I prefer to be the one passing people on the bicycle trail, not vice versa.
With my Bacchetta I can usually average 30 kms/hour on my 27 km daily bike ride.
I know that's not very fast for many of you.
Anyway my Bacchetta with all my tools, water, jacket, wallet car keys etc weighs in at around 38 lbs.
How much faster do you think I would be on a Cruzbike V20 or V20c?
How much does the Cruzbike V20 on average weigh?
Looking at my Bacchetta can anyone guess what my seat angle would be?
If I'm not mistaken the Cruzbike V20 is named due to its 20°seat angle?
Cheers and Happy New Year to you all.

 

[Henri]

For me it wasn't hard to start riding. Mabe between as hard as starting to ride a fixed boom recumbent to double as hard. So if you had no trouble with the Bacchetta, I'd see a good chance you manage the Cruzbike. But it's a completely different thing. Results may vary. Abiut becoming stable at speed I am not sure.

You are aware, that the tires you are currently running might be holding you back as much or more than the difference between your already fast model of bike to the slightly faster one?

 

[Maverick1]

For me it wasn't hard to start riding. Mabe between as hard as starting to ride a fixed boom recumbent to double as hard. So if you had no trouble with the Bacchetta, I'd see a good chance you manage the Cruzbike. But it's a completely different thing. Results may vary. Abiut becoming stable at speed I am not sure.

You are aware, that the tires you are currently running might be holding you back as much or more than the difference between your already fast model of bike to the slightly faster one?

Yes I know my tires are probably more for comfort and puncture resistance than outright speed.
I also own a Catrike 700 with the very skinny tires you are referring to, and I find riding my trike on the bumpy trail I usually ride to be quite punishing.

 

[Henri]

I am not really talking about width, but thickness and composition of the material. For comfort a softer tire would be andvantageous as well. Puncture protection is a valid trade off, though. You're going quite extreme with a Marathon Plus. As long as the tires hold you back, that also reduces the impact of a faster bike, especially if it's an aerodynamic advantage. You could think about tubeless or tubes with sealant for puncture sealing instead of prevention. (But you can sure just decide to live with it, I don't want to pressure you.)

 

[Robert Holler]

For tires, my mantra has always been "grip / speed / durability - pick two" but you can never get all three.

 

[Mathew Fy]

Looking at my Bacchetta can anyone guess what my seat angle would be?

I measured about 30 degrees for the middle part of your seat. Your upswept shoulders is consistent with Cruzbike's Adjustable Carbon Fiber Seat and Headrest or Thor's seats.
Yes, the V20 and V20c have a 20 degree angle.

 

[Mathew Fy]

I'm only interested in getting a V20 Cruzbike if it will increase my performance/speed.

You will likely see some improvement in aerodynamics and some reduced power losses to the long chain. Cruzbike has done some wind tunnel testing.

Cruzbike at the A2 Wind Tunnel

February 6, 2017/ Jim Parker After ten years of making bicycles, we decided to test our fastest model, the Cruzbike V20 performance recumbent bike, in a high-tech wind tunnel in one of the USA’s motorsport hubs, Charlotte, North Carolina. Cruzbike designer Jacob Bouchard flew in from Brooklyn...

cruzbike.com

 

[Rolling Along]

I used an online protractor and came up with 30 degrees. You can play with one like (sorry about not cropping):

Online Protractor

Measuring degrees of angles with this transparent online protractor, use your laptop, computer, tablet or smartphone to measure the angle of any objects

www.ginifab.com

 

[Rolling Along]

It looks like your Giro has a Euromesh seat. I have a Corsa that has a Euromesh seat as well as a CA2. My experience is that the Euromesh seat has a spongy feel. You may get more performance from your setup with a carbon seat and a lower seat angle (and different tires). With my Euromesh seat, I lowered the seat angle and increased my speed. You will still get better performance with a V20 or V20c.

I had years of experience with the Corsa and CA2. For me, that translated to a smaller learning curve for the V20c. I was able to practice in a big flat parking lot next to a paved trail. After about 45 minutes of that I was able to ride the trail. After a few more sessions I was able to ride around my neighborhood. But your learning curve will vary. There are lots of tips for learning to ride a Cruzbike on this website and forum.

I decided to purchase the V20c for its features including speed and I did not mind taking on the challenge of trying "front wheel drive". I was surprised at how quickly I learned to ride it. I think it is a great bicycle and is now my preferred ride.

 

[Rolling Along]

Stock, the weight of a V20c is around 25 to 26 pounds. If you go minimalist (moose pack, just tools for a flat and maybe a sandwich, 2 water bottles) then you will be under 30 pounds. If you change out components you can reduce the weight further.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks for your question Maverick1, and I am glad you asked it here (as well as on 1 of the FB groups?). I have never ridden or even seen a Bachetta in person but I am sure it is a fine bike. If the seat angle on it is about 30 degrees as Matthew measured, and the V20 or V20C is 20ish, then aerodynamically you should be faster just for that alone.

As for learning to ride CB's MBB system it can be done but how long or difficult it will be for each person is up in the air. I think that at least some of the die-hard MBB antagonists probably gave up prematurely, but I'll give you 2 extremes. For me, it took me 2 weeks of puttering around my neighborhood before I felt confident enough to take my V20 (which is my first recumbent) out on my usual bike path and not be a hazard to everyone else. The first week or so almost had me sell it but too much neck pain from road bikes left me no option but to master it. I head Death Grip AND was trying to muscle the bike in every way possible despite all of the advice I got from experienced CBers. Finally, I got the hang of it and 1 day I passed by a new bike shop and stopped in to see if this guy would accept tooling my bike unlike all the rest. He'd never been on a recumbent, and his first trip coasting across the 10-15m parking went without a hitch, so his 2nd trip had him getting his feet on the pedals and getting a turn or two, which took me DAYS to do. I never told him about Death Grip or any of the other advice, he just did it. He was sitting upright a little instead of fully reclining, but I was like "WTH?"

Another one, while stopped for a break I had a short conversation with a Japanese female jogger who also rides a road bike. I offered to let her sit on my V20 just to get a feel of how comfortable it is while stationary, and she pushed off down the 30m slope and made it to the bottom kinda riding the brakes but without dumping it. No feet on the pedals. Another "WTH?" moment for me.

This brings up how well each person's brain is wired, and you coming off a 30 degree seat angle to a 20 should give you quite a big head start. Also, that when it comes time to switch from fast mode to maneuverable mode you have the option to just sit up if required. I liken it to F14 with swept wings when speed is required, and swept forward for when maneuverability is needed.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks so much everyone for all of your wisdom.
You are correct I do have the Euromesh seat and I have adjusted it as low as it can go, so 30° is I guess the lowest for my bicycle.
Has there been any real world testing to determine if a front wheel drive setup is more efficient than my long chain rear wheel drive setup?
What would the pros and cons be for having front wheel drive?
Since carbon fiber is the latest, greatest and lightest material for building bicycle frames, I'm curious why Cruzbike has not decided to offer their bicycles with a full carbon fiber frame?
I'm sure that would noticeably help reduce the overall weight of the bike.
Imagine a Cruzbike V20C weighing in at 21-23 lbs.

 

[Henri]

Oh and about tire comfort: Remember thet the V20c comes with 28mm. I stuffed 32 in the back and 35 in the front, but I am not yet sure, if the clearance is sufficient. (Rear could probably take a 2" at 27.5" aka 50-584. Front maybe 40~45mm at that rim diameter, bacause the width is limiting, not the height.)

 

[Mike Cassera]

When you switch to clip-in pedals your control of the bike will vastly improve.

 

[Tuloose]

Thanks so much everyone for all of your wisdom.
You are correct I do have the Euromesh seat and I have adjusted it as low as it can go, so 30° is I guess the lowest for my bicycle.
Has there been any real world testing to determine if a front wheel drive setup is more efficient than my long chain rear wheel drive setup?
What would the pros and cons be for having front wheel drive?
Since carbon fiber is the latest, greatest and lightest material for building bicycle frames, I'm curious why Cruzbike has not decided to offer their bicycles with a full carbon fiber frame?
I'm sure that would noticeably help reduce the overall weight of the bike.
Imagine a Cruzbike V20C weighing in at 21-23 lbs.

It's very unlikely that a totally carbon fiber Vendetta would reduce the overall weight by more than a pound. They only saved a little over half a pound with the CF front end. Robert has opined on this subject before. Because the center frame of the Cruzbike is not triangulated there is little to gain weight wise by switching to CF. It would also add cost and people already complain about the cost of Cruzbikes. For what it's worth I pass many a light weight CF road bike, on the flats and even uphill. Of course I get passed sometines too but this has nothing to do with frame material.

 

[Maverick1]

It's very unlikely that a totally carbon fiber Vendetta would reduce the overall weight by more than a pound. They only saved a little over half a pound with the CF front end. Robert has opined on this subject before. Because the center frame of the Cruzbike is not triangulated there is little to gain weight wise by switching to CF. It would also add cost and people already complain about the cost of Cruzbikes. For what it's worth I pass many a light weight CF road bike, on the flats and even uphill. Of course I get passed sometines too but this has nothing to do with frame material.

I see.
I was just going by the substantial weight savings that came to be when Bacchetta starting producing the Carbon Aero 2.0 which weighs in at 21 lbs.

 

[Rolling Along]

If I recall, my CA2 weighed in at 25 pounds when I purchased used. It is the long frame and had stock or near stock wheels and a gooseneck stem. I have since added a tailbag, trispoke carbon wheel(s) (heavier) and recently changed the aluminum seat supports (worn out) to a heavier grade aluminum. So the weight is all relative to the details and components.

After a few months of riding the V20c and going back and forth between the CA2 and V20c I had similar speed. But I upgraded the V20c wheels to carbon 50mm deep and added a tailbox. Now I am faster on the V20c. My conclusion is that both bikes are fast if equipped right. On the V20c, I like that I can pull on the handlebars to aid pedalling effort.

 

[Rolling Along]

Maverick1, In the photo it looks like your seat would go lower if you removed the rear rack. But I don't know the details of a Giro setup. I was able to go lower on my Corsa. I tried putting it so low that I heard something rubbing. It was the back tire rubbing the Euromesh seat. I now keep the seat angled much higher and just use it for slower rides. But it was my first recumbent and I managed some faster rides by lowering the seat just above rub and putting on wheels that were faster than stock.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

Regarding learning to ride a cruzbike. Just go into it thinking it's different and you'll need to learn. Open mindedly I suppose. At least you are used to riding on your back which I'm sure would help. I actually got out onto the road after 20 minutes or so riding in the car park. I had to take it carefully and it wasn't a busy road and had good visibility. But saying that it took me about 2,000km to get completely comfortable. I did ride BMX (badly) for about 30 years so was used to learning new things on bikes but the CB was completely different to anything I'd been on before.
I also had marathon plus tyres on my old surly lht and I didn't realise quite how horrible the were until I changed them for supremes. Durable but feel awful.

 

[Frito Bandito]

What would the pros and cons be for having front wheel drive?

Imagine a Cruzbike V20C weighing in at 21-23 lbs.

I can think of a few advantages. With a RWD an idler under the seat seems common, and while it is probably only a minimal amount of increased drive friction it is still something. Not all RWD bents have it, but heel strike is another. A third one is that FWD bikes don't pelt the chain with road grime kicked up from the front tire.

My V20 set up in my profile pic is probably 15kg with those bars, shifters and brakes, and that tailbag. With the drop bars I have on it now it is 16kg. Replacing that cloth tailbag with a fiberglass one I also have probably drops it by about 1 or 1.5kg. For me though the weight is not significant at all since I ride on the flats. Extra weight means a slightly slower acceleration but since my bike path has only 1 intersection in 43k (26 miles) weight is not an issue at all for me. I have taken it up to Yamanakako a few times, which is near Mt Fuji, and it included over 1500m of climbing in about 110km. Nothing stands out comparing that climb on my V20 versus my titanium road bike other than climbing being unfamiliar on a recumbent. On several of the climbs up to about 3% grade I even climbed faster on it, but of course the steep bits were slower.