2009 Greetings

[John Tolhurst]

Greetings cruzbikers,

Its been an interesting year, I spent most of my design and research on the Enigma Mochet project, we also built another FWD prototype which we havn't released and there are few things in the pipeline - so I hope the coming year we'll see some exciting announcements.

The Sofrider / Freerider continues to prove itself to be a solid all purpose platform for doing pretty much anything which a flick through the forum pages will show.

The Silvio riders are producing some just awesome looking road killers and I can't wait to see this new red one that's on the way. The folks over at BROL of course always say that if the Silvio was anygood it would be holding some records, which is something we are working on - the key of course is to identify and recruit a world class athlete to the task.

Some time ago cruzbikers may recall an invitiation to dialogue on a folding cruzbike - the 2D cad phase of that is finished. This year I have decided to proceed the project to 3D cad, this bike is codenamed Gio.

The Enigma project is progressing and I'll be in Taiwan later this month for test assembly of the first of those bikes.

It would be nice to have a product line up: CB Kit, Freerider, Sofrider, Silvio, Sigma and Gio. Which bike are we really in need of to tackle the challenges of the coming years?

Thanks to the regular forum posters, MarkB of course has to be named individually for his consistently rivetting ride reports. We are expecting great things from you this year Mark!!! All the best for the new year and may it take you and your loved ones further towards your goals.

 

[Peder Torgersen]

johntolhurst wrote: Greetings cruzbikers,

Its been an interesting year, I spent most of my design and research on the Enigma Mochet project, we also built another FWD prototype which we havn't released and there are few things in the pipeline - so I hope the coming year we'll see some exciting announcements.

The Sofrider / Freerider continues to prove itself to be a solid all purpose platform for doing pretty much anything which a flick through the forum pages will show.

The Silvio riders are producing some just awesome looking road killers and I can't wait to see this new red one that's on the way. The folks over at BROL of course always say that if the Silvio was anygood it would be holding some records, which is something we are working on - the key of course is to identify and recruit a world class athlete to the task.

Some time ago cruzbikers may recall an invitiation to dialogue on a folding cruzbike - the 2D cad phase of that is finished. This year I have decided to proceed the project to 3D cad, this bike is codenamed Gio.

The Enigma project is progressing and I'll be in Taiwan later this month for test assembly of the first of those bikes.

It would be nice to have a product line up: CB Kit, Freerider, Sofrider, Silvio, Sigma and Gio. Which bike are we really in need of to tackle the challenges of the coming years?

Thanks to the regular forum posters, MarkB of course has to be named individually for his consistently rivetting ride reports. We are expecting great things from you this year Mark!!! All the best for the new year and may it take you and your loved ones further towards your goals.

Mochet had a problem getting a rider for his recumbent. There was one very good rider that tested it and was impressed but he didn’t want to race with it. He finally got a rider he wasn’t the best but because of the great design he was able to outride the better racers and even be comfortable. I hope you get a top athlete.

Mark B has also impressed me he has many good ride reports. He has also lost weight and done much training. I think many people would like to loose weight and get in better shape.
I am very happy to have a Sofrider I can use it in summer and winter to keep in shape and go to and from work.

Even if many will have more economic problems they will still need transportation and with a Cruzbike you can ride in comfort and you only need some food and water to keep it going.

Peder

 

[JonB]

It is good to hear that you are continuing your innovations. I look forward to hear more about the folder.

If you cant recruit a world class athlete to the task, then cheat and make one using doping, thats what all the others do. If you wanna win, you gotta cheat, and thats that.

 

[Mark B]

Happy New Year to all my Cruzbike buddies!

Mark

 

[John Tolhurst]

JonB wrote: It is good to hear that you are continuing your innovations. I look forward to hear more about the folder.

If you cant recruit a world class athlete to the task, then cheat and make one using doping, thats what all the others do. If you wanna win, you gotta cheat, and thats that.

The problem with that is I'm not that interested in what can be done by doping! We are in the HPVA record domain, not the UCI one. The record is 51 km in the hour, I have seen good riders who can do 40 km in 51 or 52 minutes on a time trial bike, which is a 46km/h average. Indoor track, better aerodynamics of the Silvio, and we could well be cooking. There is very little re-training needed for a road bike rider to perform on the Silvio, if I have correctly understood the mechanics of cycling and achieved the design objectives.

The folder - I am aiming for a folded size without disassembly of about 30 x 60 x 90 cm, or 1' x 2' x 3' .. a large suitcase if you will. An unfold time of 10 or 15 seconds I suppose.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: The folder - I am aiming for a folded size without disassembly of about 30 x 60 x 90 cm, or 1' x 2' x 3' .. a large suitcase if you will. An unfold time of 10 or 15 seconds I suppose.

Thats a big folder. Brompton folds to 565 mm x 545 mm x 250 mm (22.2" x 21.5" x 9.8") and weighs between 9 and 12.5 kg (20-28 lb). I suspect you dont use 16" wheels.

 

[Doug Burton]

Happy New Year to All Y'all...


Hoping to see some more kit work from some folks this year. We learned a lot about Cruzbike dynamics when all we had out there was the kit, and we're still supporting it as we grow our product line. One issue in the kit world is the increasing scarcity of appropriate donor bikes. Looking for good solutions now.

SO best of everything in the new year!

 

[JonB]

Hardtailcruzer wrote: Hoping to see some more kit work from some folks this year. We learned a lot about Cruzbike dynamics when all we had out there was the kit, and we're still supporting it as we grow our product line. One issue in the kit world is the increasing scarcity of appropriate donor bikes. Looking for good solutions now.

why not make some new kit innovations?

 

[Peder Torgersen]

JonB wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: The folder - I am aiming for a folded size without disassembly of about 30 x 60 x 90 cm, or 1' x 2' x 3' .. a large suitcase if you will. An unfold time of 10 or 15 seconds I suppose.

Thats a big folder. Brompton folds to 565 mm x 545 mm x 250 mm (22.2" x 21.5" x 9.8") and weighs between 9 and 12.5 kg (20-28 lb). I suspect you dont use 16" wheels.

Lightning has offered a Voyager for a long time the suitcase measures 26”x 26” x 12” or 660mm x 660mm x 30.5 mm. They write it takes 30 minutes to assemble. The Brompton is very compact but it has at least one problem an uncomfortable seat!
There is also another option which I use a unicycle it has a 20” wheel haven’t measured it but its small and easy to transport in a car or on an airplane. My riding is improving I rode today for 45 minutes without stopping or falling. The unicycle also has an uncomfortable seat and a long learning curve for some of us.
I hope John T has a folder with a comfortable seat? It will certainly appeal to some customers to have a possibility to transport a recumbent in there car trunk and also to take it on flight.

Peder

 

[JonB]

Peder Torgersen wrote:

JonB wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: The folder - I am aiming for a folded size without disassembly of about 30 x 60 x 90 cm, or 1' x 2' x 3' .. a large suitcase if you will. An unfold time of 10 or 15 seconds I suppose.

Thats a big folder. Brompton folds to 565 mm x 545 mm x 250 mm (22.2" x 21.5" x 9.8") and weighs between 9 and 12.5 kg (20-28 lb). I suspect you dont use 16" wheels.

Lightning has offered a Voyager for a long time the suitcase measures 26”x 26” x 12” or 660mm x 660mm x 30.5 mm. They write it takes 30 minutes to assemble. The Brompton is very compact but it has at least one problem an uncomfortable seat!

30 minutes is way too long time, thats not even a folder, it is a detachable bike.
I was thinking of a cruzbike kit for a brompton. If the back rest part of the seat can be folded forward, and possibly into 2, then it should be doable.

Quote: There is also another option which I use a unicycle it has a 20” wheel haven’t measured it but its small and easy to transport in a car or on an airplane. My riding is improving I rode today for 45 minutes without stopping or falling. The unicycle also has an uncomfortable seat and a long learning curve for some of us.
I hope John T has a folder with a comfortable seat? It will certainly appeal to some customers to have a possibility to transport a recumbent in there car trunk and also to take it on flight.

The unicycle has terrible aerodynamics.

 

[John Tolhurst]

The target folded size for our Gio is far better than any other recumbent offering, unless something has skipped my notice. I don't think there are any true folders out there, they are all partial disassembly, right?

 

[Mark B]

johntolhurst wrote: The target folded size for our Gio is far better than any other recumbent offering, unless something has skipped my notice. I don't think there are any true folders out there, they are all partial disassembly, right?

Current offerings, yes. I believe the Satrday was a true folder and quite compact. Dual 20's was the main downer.

Mark

 

[John Tolhurst]

Mark B wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: The target folded size for our Gio is far better than any other recumbent offering, unless something has skipped my notice. I don't think there are any true folders out there, they are all partial disassembly, right?

Current offerings, yes. I believe the Satrday was a true folder and quite compact. Dual 20's was the main downer.

Mark

In what way are dual 20's a downer when a compact folded size is required? Do you think that dual 24's would be a better compromise?

 

[Mark B]

johntolhurst wrote:

Mark B wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: The target folded size for our Gio is far better than any other recumbent offering, unless something has skipped my notice. I don't think there are any true folders out there, they are all partial disassembly, right?

Current offerings, yes. I believe the Satrday was a true folder and quite compact. Dual 20's was the main downer.

Mark

In what way are dual 20's a downer when a compact folded size is required? Do you think that dual 24's would be a better compromise?

That's a toughy. 24's would ride better and be easier to gear up. In my experience, 20's ride tough. I realize you have to make exceptions for portability, but you can get crafty around any wheel size.

Mark

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: The target folded size for our Gio is far better than any other recumbent offering, unless something has skipped my notice. I don't think there are any true folders out there, they are all partial disassembly, right?

That may be so, but i think it can be done smaller, though at the cost of something else, most likely price. But we'll see when you present it.

 

[Gromit]

John
Will the Gio folder have full suspension? In addition, will it have front wheel drive?

 

[John Tolhurst]

Hey Gromit,
It won't be suspended on the front. On the back it will have some kind of absorbtion of road vibration, not a standard suspension. I'm thinking a capreo 9 speed drive that takes it down to 9 t on the sproket, plus short cranks should get the gearing right without with an oversize chainring.

I was approached to design this bike for the Japanese market and I accepted the suggestion that it would be a good product there.

The main driver of dimensions is the rear wheel to BB distance (RC), wheel size, chainring size and crank length. I can't reduce the RC because I need a good chainstay length to create the leg length adjustment. Yes its a classic FWD cruzbike in that regard.

 

[Gromit]

johntolhurst wrote: Hey Gromit,
It won't be suspended on the front. On the back it will have some kind of absorbtion of road vibration, not a standard suspension.

John
In lieu of full suspension on the Gio, have you thought about using Schwalbe Big Apple tyres? Dahon successfully used them on their Curve folding bike. Though you may have to allow extra room in the forks to accommodate the tyre's width.
BTW Perhaps you should open up a new forum area for the folder?

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: Hey Gromit,
It won't be suspended on the front. On the back it will have some kind of absorbtion of road vibration, not a standard suspension.

Other than price and weight i can not see why not. Moulton has suspension.

johntolhurst wrote: I'm thinking a capreo 9 speed drive that takes it down to 9 t on the sproket, plus short cranks should get the gearing right without with an oversize chainring.

A schlumpf Highspeed drive will also help keeping the chainring size down ;-) but it is pricy :-(

johntolhurst wrote: I was approached to design this bike for the Japanese market and I accepted the suggestion that it would be a good product there.

Yeah, i can imagine why they would want something like that.

johntolhurst wrote: The main driver of dimensions is the rear wheel to BB distance (RC), wheel size, chainring size and crank length. I can't reduce the RC because I need a good chainstay length to create the leg length adjustment. Yes its a classic FWD cruzbike in that regard.

But if you can disassemble the front triangle, it may fold to a smaller package.

 

[John Tolhurst]

JonB wrote:
But if you can disassemble the front triangle, it may fold to a smaller package.

I want to just unfold and go, no spanners, no seperated parts. That is the standard for folding bikes which I am trying to replicate in a recumbent.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote:

JonB wrote:
But if you can disassemble the front triangle, it may fold to a smaller package.

I want to just unfold and go, no spanners, no seperated parts. That is the standard for folding bikes which I am trying to replicate in a recumbent.

I understand. I want to fold/unfold by hand. And i think it might be possible with a front triangle as well. Maybe by making it collapsible.