29th Michigan HPV Rally - May 18-19, 2013

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
The 29th Michigan HPV Rally is May 18-19, 2013, at the Waterford Hills sports car racing track on the Oakland County Sportsmen's Club grounds in Clarkston, MI which is near Pontiac, MI - or about 30 miles from me.



I'm planning to go and see what the Vendetta and I can do in the following:
  • One-hour time trial on Saturday
  • Hill climb/coast down on Saturday. I'm not exactly sure what this is but I figure I'll give it a go.
  • 1/8th mile drag races on Saturday. Hmmm, better keep practicing my shifting. How much should one be shifting in a drag race anyway?
  • 200-Foot Sprints on Sunday (flying start)
  • Road race 1 (faster vehicles, 20 laps, 12 miles, no hill) on Sunday. The Waterford track record for the stock class is 28:14.49 min at 26.51 mph set in 2004 by Frank Geyer on a Challenge Jester. See http://www.recumbents.com/hpra/hpra_track_records.htm#Waterford
Here is a Challenge Jester - check out how much that chain bounces around.



Any advice or tips from anyone? I've never done anything like this before but it is close by, looks like fun, and the Vendetta is fast.. Hopefully I can be too.

-Eric
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
No clue, that is just a video

No clue, that is just a video I found when I searched for <i>Challenge Jester</i> to see what one looked like.

-Eric
 

currystomper

Well-Known Member
Hill Climbing

"Hill climb/coast down on Saturday. I'm not exactly sure what this is but I figure I'll give it a go."

I guess the climb will be when power to wieght can be tested and the down hill will be a wieght to aero test ??

A low speed down hill rolling test is done by AtoB mag to see how good folding bike tyres compare - but I guess that not what this is about!!

I really keen to see how the cruzbikes climb over short humps as I think they will go really well using all four cyclinders (arms and legs) and this may be the key to some stuning lap times on real world TTs as the little climbs are where all the time is lost.

CS

 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
First, the Vendetta was the

First, the Vendetta was the center of attention for a lot of people. Everyone that came to check it out were tossing a lot of superlatives around. I spent about 45 minutes chatting with John Morciglio and he was also very impressed despite having become anti-MBB. He did say he thought the turned down edges of the seat bottom made wonderful aerodynamic brakes and wondered if John was going to change this aspect at some point. He did NOT like the velcro seat and claimed it would pop off when you started riding it. I told John I had about 200 miles on it at this point and had not had a problem. He looked surprised but still thought I would experience problems with it atsome point.

I took the wheels off the Vendetta to fit it easily in the back of my Chevy Equinox and apparently did not pay close enough attention to the speed and cadence sensor magnets when I put the front wheel back on as I was getting crappy data and then no data on my practice run and then my 1 hour TT.

I think I fixed it right before my 2nd hill climb - I forgot to hit start on the hill climb the first time I did it and there weren't too many people so I ran it again and captured that ride in Cyclemeter.

I also forgot to hit start on what turned out to be a half mile TT (instead of the 1/8 mile) so I didn't get any data for that one either. I got distracted when a yougster was sitting at the line about 2 bikes in front of me when all of a sudden everyone heard this loud pfffffffffffffffffffft and he suddenly had a flat tire on his front wheel. Following that Sean Costin raced around on a fixy kids bike modified to fit an adult. That was hilarious as Sean is quite tall and he was doing a very high cadence so it looked like all you saw were knees madly flying up and down. They don't seem to have reported his results for that one but he was going pretty fast on the thing.

Here are the online results. I ran in the stock class of course - number 304.

1 hour TT - 15 laps, 20.243mph average and I came in 4th. I think the 3 guys who came in before me were all low racers but I'm not sure. Several people had multiple bikes. Mid racer, low racer, streamliner and were running some of these races multiple times, swapping to their other bikes before racing the same event again.

This is supposed to be a 1.4 mile track so my 15 laps should result in 21 miles for the 1 hour TT. My training rides of about this length have been steadily improving. My last four 22 mile training rides average speeds were 17.6, 17.7, 17.7, and 18.8 mph so I'm pretty pleased with the 20.2mph average today.

As I've posted before, the Vendetta can climb! I came in 3rd in the hill climb part of the hill climb plus coast down. The guy that came in second was only 6/100s of a second faster than me. I came in 5th in the coast down - goal is to roll as far as you can. My results are based on the first attempt I did. I noticed the other recumbent riders were unclipping their bent leg to hold both legs straight so I followed suite on my second run and rolled much farther. I liked the hill climb challenge, the coast down was fun but a lot a variables with aero and wheel bearings, tire pressure, etc. My Volae rider that I see on my training rides was here and he made a second run after loading up the bag behind his seat with a lot of water in container(s) to try and get more weight for the coast down - course he also had to tote it up the hill climb part too :)

I came in 4th in the 1/2 mile TT with a time of 1:13.313. Kind of tired to do math - someone check me but I think this works out to be about 26.5 mph. Tired, hot, sunburnt at this point so not too shabby.

A lot of fun. Met a lot of really great people. Everyone was really friendly with several asking me if I was going to travel to several other HPV venues.

Tomorrow for me is a 200 ft flying start sprint and one of either a 20 lap, 12 mile road race for faster vehicles or a 15 lap, 9 mile road race for slower vehicles. The distance is shorter because they are cutting the hill climb section out of the course. I presume I will race in the 20 lap, 12 mile race.

Hopefully my foolishness in applying sun screen at around halfway through today's events instead of at the start won't trouble me too much tomorrow. Got a good case of sun burn going on, including the tops of my feet in between the straps of my riding sandals. Guess I'll wear socks and my long warm weather tights tomorrow. Wish I had arm coolers, those would help although my arms aren't quite as bad as my legs and feet as I've been getting a bit more sun on my arms. Most of my training rides is through heavily wooded park roads with heavy shade over most of the roadway so today I got a lot more exposure than I usually do.

It was a bit hectic getting there this morning. I didn't pack the bike in the car until this morning and it was the first time doing so - should have done it the night before. The track is about 50 minutes drive time from my house and we got a late start so I didn't get there as early as I had planned and had to rush a bit to complete registration and get my technical inspection done along with a lot of people checking out the Vendetta. I also had to create my own race number plates but they had material there to do so. I elected to race with my Bachetta Brain Box which I left pretty much empty in order to have a better place to attach my numbers. They provide different sizes and colors of Coroplast sheets so I grabbed two yellow ones similar in color to the Vendetta along with a supplied nail for poking holes and zip ties and zip tied the numbers to my Brain Box.

There were a lot of people taking photos. The Vendetta seemed to draw their attention. Photos and race results are typically posted here so maybe there will be some interesting photos if/when they get posted.

More tomorrow.

-Eric

 

currystomper

Well-Known Member
Go Eric Go

Eric

Great report - some real interesting stuff!! As they say around these parts "up up UP"

..looking forward to part II of your report and hoping the sun burn isn't too bad!!


:)

CS
 

BBL

Member
Seat Security

Eric ...
Thank you for all your excellent posts on the new Vendetta. I presume you transported your Vendetta inside your car. In your opinion how would the seat pans (the fiberglass pieces) hold up if you transported your Vendetta outside of you car?

Buddy
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Allez, Eric

Great stuff, Eric.
I appreciate your timely reports.
Sounds like Michigan was a success. Stay in the spotlight and out of the sun.
JG
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
The newcomer (me) ended up

The newcomer (me) ended up placing 3rd place overall for the stock class based on total points which included $10 prize money!

If you click the online results above you can see the updated results.

I managed to do 33.162mph in the 200 foot sprint even though I started hammering up to top speed way too early (it was a flying start) and was already getting tuckered out even before I hit the first timing gate. According to my Cyclemeter data my top speed was 34.2mph. Obviously I will need to attend more of these events to hone my skills so I peak as I'm entering the gate. :)

I came in 4th on the road race. It wasn't as described on the MHPVA website and what I described in my post above. Instead, it was a 25 lap race on a roughly oval section of the track at one end but a very sharp hairpin concrete connector at the other end. This connector cut out the hill climb area and rest of the track. The large oval end had a dip and then a slight hill. The hairpin end was pretty much flat.

This concrete connector section was almost the most fun I had all weekend. The corner was sharp enough that all the guys with long chains or heel strike across their front wheels were pretty much coasting at least through part of the corner. Every time I went through it, except once due to congestion, I was pedalling like mad trying to accelerate through the corner banking at an insane angle. Several of my laps in my Cyclemeter data show me entering into the hairpin at just over 20mph and <i>accelerating up to 23 mph inside and coming out of</i> the hairpin.

Tactical advantage Vendetta - don't slow down for corners - speed up - wahoo! So much fun. Disclaimer - attempt at your own risk.

Until my extra cool down lap Cyclemeter had my average mph at 20+ but I don't recall the exact number and since I didn't hit stop, the cool down lap dropped the displayed average to 19.87mph.

I need to get into better shape as I started feeling tired with about 8 laps remaining but I tried to hold my speed as best I could and tried a little harder on the little hill.

Several more people came up after the awards ceremony wanting to check out the Vendetta and learn more about it. I even talked to a fellow named Martin who said he was an independent film maker who was at the event both days with video cameras filming and talking to many of the participants. I talked to him about Maria and her RAAM race coming up and described Maria's interest in raising money to fight brain cancer due to her sister Jenny's fight and encouraged him to check out http://www.3000milestoacure.com/

All in all a total blast with a kick butt bike! Loads of fun. Lots of great folks. I highly recommend you give this kind of thing a try.

-Eric
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Hi Buddy,
You will want to


Hi Buddy,

You will want to take off both the seat cushions and the seat pans to transport the Vendetta outside your vehicle unless you come up with some method of bolting BOTH seat halves onto the frame. Otherwise the wind will separate cushions and/or seat from frame while you are driving down the road.

Depending on how you orient the Vendetta outside your car assuming the seat pans were still attached they might generate quite a bit of wind resistance and your fuel mileage would suffer accordingly. I can also imagine this wind resistance against the plane of the seat buffeting the bike a lot more and perhaps stressing your bike carrier more than it should be.

I have a SeaSucker Talon bike rack for my 2 seat Honda CR-Z that I would like to try the Vendetta on but I need to fabricate an adapter that replaces the drive wheel axle such that I can clamp it tight, perhaps without the rear derailleur hanger and rear derailleur in place but hanging inside a bag instead. It kind of depends on the clearance. On this trip I pulled the QR skewer, removed the wheel, pulled the RD hanger + RD out of the clamping position between the chainstay cups and the fork lugs and stuck it all inside a gallon zip lock bag and used a velcro strap to secure it to the side of the chainstay. I put the QR skewer back in the fork dropouts and chainstay hole and snuuged it down enough to keep these two in place. Then I set the frame upright in the back of my Checy Equinox sitting on the rear dropouts and fork dropouts on padding with a ratchet cargo strap over the top of the seat and cushions to hold the bike in place. To accommodate this I put both seat backs down so I could also load two folding lawn chairs and various bags next to the bike with a pad over the lawn chairs and the two wheels on top of the padding.

It was good experience taking the front drive wheel off and putting it back on several times. I found this to be pretty fiddly but getting easier with each iteration. However, that area of lugged fork droputs and chainstay cups gets very loose and wiggles apart easily when the wheel is not clamped in place with the quick release skewer. Lifting it up on top of the car like that and trying to get it into the fork mount of my SeaSucker Talon would be a major pain in the butt however I can visualize it being relatively easy to clamp in an axle adapter of some sort so the fork + chainstay + RD hanger and RD would be clamped back tight while the bike was on the ground and then lift the bike onto the rack with the adapter in place. Something a little like the Hurricane Components Fork Up adapter but sized and shaped for the Vendetta's 130 OLD forks.

-Eric
 

COBRA GT

Member
Racing @ MI

Good job! With only a few miles on the V.. I raced Silvio last year @ Northbrook ,IL. & Kenosha , WI..Lots of fun!
 

KiwiGuy

Well-Known Member
Great work

Hi Eric

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up.

Great work - particularly with the hill-climb, one-hour TT and road race. Impressive results. Obviously the experienced racers with the super aero low-racers are going to have an advantage over you, so essentially being the best of the rest is outstanding.

You made a couple of interesting comments about John Morciglio's view of the Vendetta and MBB. What did he say has driven his anti-MBB point of view? Interesting that he was impressed with your Vendetta regardless.

Kind regards... Blair
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Carbon fork

Is John Morciglio a carbon master?
When I was assembling the V, I was wondering about a lighter fork, one made of carbon.
More to the point of this thread, Eric's detailing is top notch. Elsewhere on this site he warned of clipping out with both feet at a stop.
On a recent ride I decided a one shoe clip out was sufficient and I very nearly bit it. I thought of Eric's advice.
I wonder if there are any HPV meets in western Canada or even recumbent events?
I'm off to google
JG
 

KiwiGuy

Well-Known Member
John Morciglio

Hi Jim

Yes, John Morciglio is the carbon master, and has something of a reputation for being obsessed about building very aerodynamic recumbents as well. His M1 is reputedly very fast - Eric raced against one ridden by Mike Mowett the other day.

Some of his designs look mightly ugly to me, but his Apache highracer is just as good looking as the Vendetta to my eyes.

His website is not much to look at, but it does show several photographs of his Apache highracer, along with some of his other designs. See here - http://thundervoltman.com/Home_Page.html

Kind regards... Blair
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
John Morciglio has also build

John Morciglio has also build MBB bikes (see this thread). John (M.) and John (T.) disagree on the headtube angle for MBB bikes, but have both created fantastic machines. John M. also makes carbon guitars.
 
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