Terry Ulmer
Member
What do you guys recommend and is there anything special I need to know about a front wheel drive wheelset?
Thanks!
Thanks!
60mm or 50mm carbon wheelset?
- Thread starter Terry Ulmer
- Start date
ak-tux
Zen MBB Master
Normally you want a balance between aero and weight to allow them to spin up quickly.
If I could afford it I would go for 50mm at the front and 60mm depth at the back.
On my Vendetta I currently run a 35mm front / 50mm rear carbon wheelset from Wheelworks - https://www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/road-wheels/maker-ar-disc/. I really like this set-up. Looks great and there are no issues at all in cross winds.
That said, if and when I purchase the next model Vendetta sometime in the future, I'd at least think about a 45mm front / 65mm rear wheelset from Industry Nine - https://industrynine.com/systemwheels#road-disc, or a 48.5mm front / 62.5mm rear from SwissSide - https://www.swissside.com/products/hadron-ultimate-485-disc-brake.
Kind regards... Blair
That said, if and when I purchase the next model Vendetta sometime in the future, I'd at least think about a 45mm front / 65mm rear wheelset from Industry Nine - https://industrynine.com/systemwheels#road-disc, or a 48.5mm front / 62.5mm rear from SwissSide - https://www.swissside.com/products/hadron-ultimate-485-disc-brake.
Kind regards... Blair
paco1961
Zen MBB Master
Oh . . . This thread could go forever! I run a $500 pair of Novatec CXD disc wheels. At that price and 1600gm and rock solid construction I’ll be happy for a long time in all but most watt sensitive races. This wheelset will give up about 10 watts to a 50-60mm carbon rim and I can hit potholes all day long. Now if I was racing on a century course or 12 hr Sebring loops I’d love to have those 10 watts. But for “spirited”club rides and sub century I like my cheap-o wheels. And this from a guy who sprung for Dura Ace track hubs for my Ti DF Singlespeed!
But just for the heck of it here’s an old aero/drag table found online. Couldn’t find a date.
But just for the heck of it here’s an old aero/drag table found online. Couldn’t find a date.
jond
Zen MBB Master
Set of 50 mm yoleo discs. 28 spoke 2018 model . Recommend cheap and effective good quality.
Set of enve 6:7 24 spoke 2013 ...... expensive faster just but affected by side winds badly unlike the yoleo which cope well. Old tech. So ........meh.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I sincerely doubt you will see much advantage running 60's as compared to 50's. The faster you are going, the flatter the terrain, and the less wind the more difference there is likely to be.
I also doubt you would notice any real handling issues. If the wind were strong enough for you to feel a difference, you probably would not want to be riding in it anyway.
If those are the 2 choices, I would opt for the 50's. Chances are they are a tad lighter and a tad less expensive.
Me: I like a full disc in the back and 60 up front. (I just tape disc covers on my for full disk in the back - no sense in springing for a whole other wheel.)
I also doubt you would notice any real handling issues. If the wind were strong enough for you to feel a difference, you probably would not want to be riding in it anyway.
If those are the 2 choices, I would opt for the 50's. Chances are they are a tad lighter and a tad less expensive.
Me: I like a full disc in the back and 60 up front. (I just tape disc covers on my for full disk in the back - no sense in springing for a whole other wheel.)
I would echo Larry.
Barefoot Biker
Active Member
RE: anything special about a front wheel drive wheelset?
Here is a response to a query I made to ENVE:
Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately we don't recommend our product to be used in that application. Understand that if you do use our wheels it is not covered under any type of warranty. Our rear wheels are designed to be in the rear and undergo different wind pressures so it would not be the most optimized option in aero dynamics either. Apologies for the inconvenience.
Best,
Clay Ahlf
Consumer Experience
The reason I asked is because the shape of the ENVE wheels are different front to back. The "front" rim is shallower and more rounded to better shed the crosswind whereas the "rear" wheel is deeper, but more pointed where they expect the air to have gone through already the frame of the bike. So, the ENVE rear wheel isn't really designed to work as a front wheel on the Vendetta and the spoke count is too low to make their front rim work.
RE: what do you recommend?
There are too many factors to say *this* is the correct wheelset. If you assume that the ground is completely flat and that there is zero wind on a closed course, then a full disc front and back is fastest. If there is some wind, you are not going to want a full disc in front. I ran 80mm in front and I would go higher if it was an improvement because I am heavy enough that the wind doesn't give me much bother (even B girl runs 80mm up front without issue). If there is wind and you are skinny, then, that configuration might still be too much and you might get to the point that even the disc in back needs to be a deep dish instead. Now, if it's not completely flat, you need to start considering weight and as the grade increases, eventually, you'll tip in favor of an ultra light climbing wheel. Of course, it takes an extremely steep grade before the lighter wheel gets the advantage so, even on a course with a lot of climbing, you're probably going to win with something like zipp 303's vs. going crazy about weight. Wheels are huge though - the bike will feel completely different depending on your selection so, choose what works based on the course, the wind, and your own weight.
Here is a response to a query I made to ENVE:
Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately we don't recommend our product to be used in that application. Understand that if you do use our wheels it is not covered under any type of warranty. Our rear wheels are designed to be in the rear and undergo different wind pressures so it would not be the most optimized option in aero dynamics either. Apologies for the inconvenience.
Best,
Clay Ahlf
Consumer Experience
The reason I asked is because the shape of the ENVE wheels are different front to back. The "front" rim is shallower and more rounded to better shed the crosswind whereas the "rear" wheel is deeper, but more pointed where they expect the air to have gone through already the frame of the bike. So, the ENVE rear wheel isn't really designed to work as a front wheel on the Vendetta and the spoke count is too low to make their front rim work.
RE: what do you recommend?
There are too many factors to say *this* is the correct wheelset. If you assume that the ground is completely flat and that there is zero wind on a closed course, then a full disc front and back is fastest. If there is some wind, you are not going to want a full disc in front. I ran 80mm in front and I would go higher if it was an improvement because I am heavy enough that the wind doesn't give me much bother (even B girl runs 80mm up front without issue). If there is wind and you are skinny, then, that configuration might still be too much and you might get to the point that even the disc in back needs to be a deep dish instead. Now, if it's not completely flat, you need to start considering weight and as the grade increases, eventually, you'll tip in favor of an ultra light climbing wheel. Of course, it takes an extremely steep grade before the lighter wheel gets the advantage so, even on a course with a lot of climbing, you're probably going to win with something like zipp 303's vs. going crazy about weight. Wheels are huge though - the bike will feel completely different depending on your selection so, choose what works based on the course, the wind, and your own weight.
Mathew Fy
GRU
I had WheelBuilder make me a drive wheel with a front Enve 4.5 AR disc rim on Chris King rear hub, 28 mm tires and am very satisfied. The Note that their "front" rim is available in 20 or 24 spoke counts, while the rear is only 24. I can no longer upload images (sigh), but you can see some here and here. Bonus: I believe Jason's riding with these rims also.
Mathew Fy
GRU
No, I'm still riding on my 650b Compass 42 mm there. Business up front, party on the back. Like a mullet! I'll put something faster on the back when some time in the future.
https://flic.kr/p/2ding61
paco1961
Zen MBB Master
On the carbon rim question, anybody have any experience with Williams Cycling 45s or 60s . . . or 90s for that matter. I've used their cockpit pieces - bar, stem, seatpost etc. on DFs for a number of years and have always found them to be an excellent value and the company great to work with. Contemplating a set of mid-depth carbon rims (after a long history of being a . . . never go carbon rim . . . guy) and they seem to be a very reasonable option. Their 60 wheelset is on sale for $900 down from about $1400
chicorider
Zen MBB Master
I went from "never go carbon rim" to "always go carbon rim" in a short time. Lighter, stronger, smoother. I beat the hell out of aluminum rims on my V20 and S30, but I haven't had to touch my NOX Composites wheels (fourth season coming up for the V20, and the third season for the S30. Both are 24/20 spoke count). I went the cheaper Chinese route for my S40 (Light Bicycle CX rims), and for my two mountain bikes (Nextie Premium). All five sets have performed flawlessly, and the "cheap" Nextie rims have taken a beating with no issues at all; if these were aluminum wheels, I'd be truing them up a few times a year, or replacing them for rim dings that no longer hold a bead seal. All of this is to say that carbon rims have come a long way from the scary days, and I would imagine that the Williams wheels will be as solid as anything else out there.
Barefoot Biker
Active Member
RE: anybody have any experience with Williams Cycling 45s or 60s . . . or 90s for that matter
Yes. I ran the older 80mm williams wheels on the V20 the first year and swapped them to B Girl's bike when I put on the full disc. On my Tarmac, I swapped 50mm chinese rims for 90mm williams front and back and the difference was enormous. The williams are fast and they're stiff as well so they feel very sure footed when sprinting - far superior to the chinese rims I had. The hub is loud so, you basically can't talk to anyone in a paceline if you're coasting on the Vendetta (even on the tarmac you will want to be pedaling if you're trying to listen to anything).
Yes. I ran the older 80mm williams wheels on the V20 the first year and swapped them to B Girl's bike when I put on the full disc. On my Tarmac, I swapped 50mm chinese rims for 90mm williams front and back and the difference was enormous. The williams are fast and they're stiff as well so they feel very sure footed when sprinting - far superior to the chinese rims I had. The hub is loud so, you basically can't talk to anyone in a paceline if you're coasting on the Vendetta (even on the tarmac you will want to be pedaling if you're trying to listen to anything).
