650B's S40 Conversion

[velocio]

Hey CruzBike'rs,

I recently acquired a basically unridden disk-braked S40 and am just starting the process of learning to ride all over again. I'm already pondering converting to 650B wheels, but not ready to pull the trigger on that until I get more Cruzbike saddle time. Any other S40 owners out there that have changed to 650B? Any "gotchas" to know about?

Reasons I'm pondering a 650B swap:
- At 5'6.5" the seat height is manageable, but the optimal seat height is probably a bit lower. I certainly wouldn't want to raise the seat.
- I'd like a little more cush in the ride, but a thicker seatpad would raise the seat. So pneumatic suspension seems the obvious answer.
- I'd like to be able to mount fenders for the rainy season or touring along with those cushy tires. Looks like 700c x 35mm is about as big as one could go and fit a fender.
- I'm looking for a reason to build a set of nicer wheels than what came with the bike.

Perhaps the best answer is to add a set of 650B wheels, keeping the current 700c's as well, for use during the wet season, touring or longer rides when comfort matters more than speed.

Any 650B S40 riders out there? Thanks!

-Jack
Raleigh, NC

 

[Pollock]

Jack, congrats on the new ride!

I have 700s on mine still though I am a bit taller at 6’.

Mostly, posting to say hi to someone else in or near Raleigh!

 

[chicorider]

Hi Jack,

I am 5'4" and built my S40 up with 650B wheels, mostly to make room for bigger tires (I have a V20 for going zoom-zoom; the S40 is my townie/commuter). The smaller wheels have been great, with Panaracer Gravel Kings (650B x 42), with fenders. Nice, cushy ride. I build my own wheels, and for these I went with Light Bicycle carbon CX rims. They built up really well.

I hope this helps. Enjoy the ride!

 

[Mathew Fy]

I'm concerned with the limited availability of 650B vs. 26 inch. Smooth ones for road riding is especially limited. I've used the Compass 650b tires on my V20 and am very satisfied, but when touring, a needed replacement could delay your trip.

 

[Bill K]

I am using 650b x 42 Compass tires and Velo orange zeppelin 52mm fenders. There is about 4mm clearance between tire and fender so a tire wider tire than that would be a tight fit.
The only real gotcha is the front fork does not have fender attachments. I needed to use a 1" accessory clamp around each fork blade.
Oh, the other gotcha is that you will be spoiled. You won't like riding your old skinny tires any more

 

[velocio]

Craig & Bill, thanks for the user reports on 650B's on S40's. Good stuff! Interesting that you're both running fenders, as I virtually never see fendered bikes (here in NC or former homes in OH and MI). I was a little surprised the S40's "chainstay" bridge wasn't drilled to aid in fender attachment, but just a little. Good to know the 52mm VO Zeppelin fits, that's the fender I had in mind. I wasn't considering compass tires for this bike, because they're not focused on performance characteristics other than puncture protection and a flat on the front of the S40 looks pretty unfun to deal with out on the road (at night, in the rain, etc …). Are you running the Compass tires tubeless? The tire I have in mind is the Schwalbe G-One Speed Evo in 40-584. Crr testing is very favorable (like Compass), but price and puncture protection are good as well.

Matthew, I understand your concern, it's certainly true smooth 650B tires aren't easy to come by in the boonies. But my touring is more likely to be down to the beach for the weekend, rather than off the grid in Kathmandu, so carrying a spare solves that worry for me. Plus, I had a rim credit from Pacenti Cycle Design for a pair of the infamously out of spec SL23 V1's which I already used to bag a pair of 650B rims.

-Jack

 

[Bill K]

Keep in mind that the distance between the chainstay bridge and fork changes as you adjust the bottom bracket for your leg reach. The attachment to your fender will need to be adjustable, or just don't drill a hole in the fender until you are sure the bb position is correct.

I run tubeless tires + sealant. I have had to use a "plug" to seal a 1/2" gash in the tires (twice). So far I haven't had to take the wheel off to install a tube (in two years!).

 

[rfneep]

I've built up a S40 over the winter, and chose SRAM ROAM 650b wheels for it. Presently I have Schwalbe G-One AllAround 650b (40-584) tires on it. They fit fine, with plenty of room for wider or fenders. I chose the 584 wheel size because I wanted a slightly lower seat and access to wider tires. Since we are presently in the Polar Vortex here in the Midwest, the bike is still inside on a trainer. I plan to eventually run these tubeless. For general use - road, commuting, and trails - I'll use tires in the 38-42 width (Schwalbe or Compass). For thinner tires in this size, Schwalbe makes a Pro One in 25 mm width and Continental makes their new Gran Prix 5000 in both 25 and 28 mm widths. These all look really interesting...

 

[ak-tux]

I've built up a S40 over the winter, and chose SRAM ROAM 650b wheels for it. Presently I have Schwalbe G-One AllAround 650b (40-584) tires on it. They fit fine, with plenty of room for wider or fenders. I chose the 584 wheel size because I wanted a slightly lower seat and access to wider tires. Since we are presently in the Polar Vortex here in the Midwest, the bike is still inside on a trainer. I plan to eventually run these tubeless. For general use - road, commuting, and trails - I'll use tires in the 38-42 width (Schwalbe or Compass). For thinner tires in this size, Schwalbe makes a Pro One in 25 mm width and Continental makes their new Gran Prix 5000 in both 25 and 28 mm widths. These all look really interesting...

Must be an interesting build. Any photos?

 

[rfneep]

Took it off the trainer and put on the ROAM wheels for few quick photos of my new S40 with 650b wheels. I've attached a few here.

The build is pretty standard. So far, I'm keeping with the stock seat, etc. I'll post details when I finish fine-tuning. The only big change is that I got a 44 cm Salsa Woodchipper handlebar and cut it down 2 inches on each side to accommodate the barend shifter. The stock handlebar feels too wide for me.

To the point of this thread: I presently have Schwalbe G-one AllAround tires on SRAM ROAM wheels. The tires measure 39.5 +/- 0.4 mm wide at 60 psi inflation. As shown in the photos, there is plenty of room for going to 42-584 width such as the Compass tires have. The width in the rear is 51-52 mm and the front fork width is roughly 49 mm at the tire radius. IMHO, the wheel size looks fine on this frame.

Hope this helps.

Ray

 

[ChaleJake]

Nice looking bike.

 

[bladderhead]

What is the handling like? Assuming all that cold air has gone back to the pole. You are going to need treads and mudguards when all that snow melts.

 

[Ken Rudd]

No input on 650's, but welcome to the Raleigh area!

 

[velocio]

Super nice looking build, Ray! Why did you decide to go with bar-end shifters? I'm a big fan of bar-end shifters, usually that was the first mod I'd do on getting a new DF bike, but they seem pretty thin on the ground in Vendetta and Silvio country.

By the way, my new/used S40 frame has the white accent option. So, so wish it was blue like yours!

 

[velocio]

Ken, thanks much for the welcome! I've been in "the triangle" for a few years now, but very new to Cruzbike.

-Jack

 

[rfneep]

Super nice looking build, Ray! Why did you decide to go with bar-end shifters? I'm a big fan of bar-end shifters, usually that was the first mod I'd do on getting a new DF bike, but they seem pretty thin on the ground in Vendetta and Silvio country.

By the way, my new/used S40 frame has the white accent option. So, so wish it was blue like yours!

On my previous two builds (a Quest 559 with carbon seat and 650b wheels, and an S30), I used SRAM Rival brifters like most others do. However, I've never been overly happy with the somewhat vague shifting I got with those using a 1 x 11 setup. So I decided to try barends for the S40. I cut the handlebars down so that I do not have to significantly move my hand up and down to shift. On the trainer, the shifting seems nicer, but I likely won't know what I prefer until I get it out on the roads and trails. That will probably be a couple of months from now.

The gray/silver with blue accent has grown on me. I was lucky enough to get one of the last of the first S40 shipment. (Thanks to the guys at Rose City Recumbents!)

Ray

 

[bladderhead]

My Silvio has 1x11 and a home-made bar-end friction shifter.

 

[Balor]

My Silvio has 1x11 and a home-made bar-end friction shifter.

Really? Is it comfortable to use? After all, 11 speeds takes more careful positioning than 4-5 of yore...

 

[bladderhead]

The hand-position is ergonomic. I like that. What I do not like are the mis-shifts, and the time it takes to shift, bit it is no worse than the Sachs Huret I had on the Claud Butler.

When I got the Grasshopper I decided I loved the Rohloff would never again submit to the ordeal of Disraeli gears, but here I am with a friction-shifter. I got 1x11 because at least I do not have to have a double chainwheel. Not the double chainwheel, no, NOOOOOO!

I used to commute in winter on my Claud Butler, and lubricated it with graphite-grease. Orrible stuff. The chain used to come off. Sub-zero, snow, frozen fingers and the black gunge from hell. At least the XX1 has never done that to me. And thanks to this forum the chain is covered in candle-wax. Cruzbike wins the lube-wars!

 

[velocio]

Not to drift too far afield from the original topic or incite a religious war, but …

I'm a big fan of waxing, been waxing for a couple of decades (bicycle chains, not myself). But, I wouldn't recommend wax for a winter commuting bike, as it simply doesn't last at all well in wet conditions. For dry conditions I wax the chain when it's off the bike for thorough cleaning, then use Boeshield T-9 for "touch up" lubing until the chain comes off again for a major clean & wax. That's me, but everyone has their favorite chain maintenance regime and as long as they're doing something to maintain their chain they're doing it right in my book.

Cheers,

-Jack