adjusting Silvio for same angles as DF, put geek hats on!

cycleguy

Active Member
Hi all

I wanted to put some numbers to the position one has on a Silvio compared to an upright bike.

So...

1. I had my daughter take a picture of me from the side sitting on both my DF road bike and my Silvio, with my leg closet to the camera in the up position, close to my chest.
2. I imported both pictures into Google Sketchup which has some great modeling tools.
3. I measured the angle between my thigh and chest on both bikes.
4. On the DF bike, the angle is 60 degrees
5. On the Silvio it is 90 degrees. 30 degrees more open.
6. We have mentioned many times before on this forum, how when climbing hills, pulling your chest closer to the handle bars increases power.. Seems that closing this angle up allows the leg muscles to contract in a different manner to produce more power.
7. So to produce similar power that an DF does during regular riding, I adjusted the Silvio by readjusting the telescoping steering tube to bring the pedals closer, to close up the angle to the same as on my DF (60 degrees)
8. However, just pulling up the pedals a little, made the the bottom of the front derailer cage, hit the chain so the chain was dragging across it. Seems that when pulling the handle bar tube closer to me, it is pulling the pedals out of the circle that the front chain stay would sweep out, making the cage hit the chain instead.

Have others seen this? Is there any adjustment I am missing? I really think closing this angle up like this would give exactly the same mechanical advantage that the DF frame provides while maintaining the phenomenal Silvio comfort...That same increase in power seen when one draws their chest closer to the handle bars on climbs.

Would love to hear everyone's input!

Thanks
Harold
 

cycleguy

Active Member
Here are the pictures...

Shows the angle on DF
83_5c5b2d255dd5cf3eccd44265b14b59b3


Angle on Silvio
83_972f372dd5fcfeb8c7b11bd3d71d0dfc


And where the chain is dragging in the front cage when the BB is pulled up closer to handlebars. I would think there is an adjustment possible to allow greater range of adjustment!
83_7f65253d3ea1570e40ac4d0579c77a75


Thanks!
Harold
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Hi Harold,

It is one of the greatest design challenges involved in these bicycles that front derailleurs are universally designed to operate with a chainstay angle (angle between the chainstay and the seat tube) of 63 to 68 degrees.

When the TFT of a Cruzbike is adjusted, the chainstay angle changes, and when you shorten the extension of the BB position, the chainstay angle opens up. This is why many short folks can't use a triple crankset on a Silvio without the chain dragging on the derailleur cage.

We have an adapter under development to relocate the derailleur clamp to restore the chainstay angle. I built a crude version that worked for a compact double chainring for the MS150, and then was able to get it to work for a triple.

Never used it to try to manipulate the body angle though...

Best,
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
Harold,

the body position on your DF is compromised to fold you down out of the wind, on the Silvio it is correct, about 135 degrees from crank to hip to shoulder, according to both anecdotal and formal studies

the ideal angle depends on cadence, technique etc, which you may alternate, 135 gives you access to those choices

great topic,
cheers,
John Tolhurst
 

cycleguy

Active Member
Hi Doug

I would definitely be interested in that adapter when you have it done... From what I 've seen it just needs to be tilted down and to the front a bit... I was able to move the BB up a bit more before the chain dragged and it seems to have made a nice difference today.. I did a 22 mile ride with some LONG hills and I felt like there was better power... a bit more adjustment and it would be real sweet.

Put me on the list if there is one to hear about that adapter.

Thanks!
Harold
 

JonB

Zen MBB Master
johntolhurst wrote: Harold,

the body position on your DF is compromised to fold you down out of the wind, on the Silvio it is correct, about 135 degrees from crank to hip to shoulder, according to both anecdotal and formal studies

the ideal angle depends on cadence, technique etc, which you may alternate, 135 gives you access to those choices
Isnt it possible to make the angle closer by using longer crank arms?
 

cycleguy

Active Member
yeah, I am sure it is, but I've spent enough on components! The telescoping tube should take care of that.. I was able to make it slightly closer which helped.. I'll wait for that adapter for now...

Harold
 
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