Cruzbike RAAM team

[Lief]

So, I certainly wanted a title to get your attention - but I have to caveat this as unofficial.
Mostly just me riffing on something Bob (Ratz) said in another thread (?http://cruzbike.com/and-so-it-begins...).

we'll be well on our way to an 8 person RAAM team.

That, combined with just how much freakin' awesome it is riding this Vendetta makes me want to just finally get it out of my head and put it out there.

Anyone here wish or hope or consider or dream of riding in the 2015 RAAM, only Cruzbikes natch.

Excuses:
* My [body part/s] is/are bad
* I don't think I'll have time (to train, to get away from work)
* It'll be expensive
* It'll be a TON of work
* I'm too old
* I'm too poor
* I'm too slow
* My partner would think I'm crazy / say no

I'm sure there's more - but they all come down to "I'm afraid".
So now that's out of the way - what can we do? What would it look like?

Some thoughts
I'm thinking, naturally, about benefiting
http://www.3000milestoacure.com/about

?and taking the spirit of this
http://impossiblehq.com/

and this
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2014/08/i-made-it-my-mission.html
(it shouldn't escape notice that Seth recognizes Cruzbike's awesome-sauce - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkMZq_DJYvI )

There are some seriously fast and experienced riders on this forum.
Who's interested in flushing the devil out of the details?

 

[ratz]

Now to set the hook

Now to set the hook.

Well I put it out there because I plan to do it in the future; solo in about 5 years. So I wanted to see if that got anyones attention, but that's a few years out kids need to get older and we need to get a few out of the house before I can finance a solo gig. But I think a team attack has some serious possibilities. I don't think the schedule will permit me to ride in 2015; but put in the list for crewing in 2015. For 2016-2019 riding a four or eight man team would be a blast and viable for me not to mention meeting my goal of learning enough to tackle the solo.

I had been slowing working up a list in my too thinkn if it was craziness or not. Not to call anyone out or leave anyone out intentionally; with just a quick list we have: Jim, Maria, Charlie, Eric, and Larry who have all demonstrated the power and the will to do the multi hour rides; Rick's getting stronger by the day although he denies it, and Lief you just need to chase Tim around town to train. Throw in Cruzmoose and a few of the other with race experience or massive miles on the legs (that I've over looked) and we have a pretty sick group of Silvios and Vendetta's to pick from.

So yeah devil away.

 

[Eric Winn]

I like the idea but so far

I like the idea but so far I've not been real successful with consistent, enduring training and performance. Larry is well ahead of me.

I think I could do it if I can manage to actually train consistently and well - work and life have intervened a lot more than I had anticipated these last two years. Like Bob, next year is pretty unlikely for me but 2016 and on are a possibility.

-Eric

 

[Lief]

Chasing Tim!!

Bob, "Chasing Tim" is right!
Sounds like the best name for my new band!

Honest opinion - is it too much to expect this kind of stuff from the likes of these Cruzbikers.
Based on how much better my times have gotten since I started riding this Vendetta - it makes me want to claim that these types of times/speeds are target-able for these fast and experienced riders whom you mention.

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/raam/raam2.php?N_webcat_id=51
4 Person classification records

The overall 8 Person record is 2013 - 24.19 - 5:03:45 - 2962

Crewing sounds awesome too!

 

[ratz]

Gotta Believe

Well.... if I didn't think the unaired Bacchetta record wasn't obtainable It wouldn't be much fun now would it. Anything is possible; and the bikes are fast.

Not to Mention I accidentally left TimG and Ivan off my brief list, and there is also John and Jackie Schlitter who have Vendetta's too or at least access to them. Think John would like another crack at that record to better it?

The game is having enough time to train; and enough riders that preferred to look at the road and not the scenery, the who'll team has to show up in shape and you need backup riders that are trained, ready and in shape knowing they probably won't get to ride.

Then having your rotation strategy; and you talents aligned; and through in some luck; weather is either your friend or your enemy.

For me, step 1 would be giving up ice cream and dropping the 20 lbs I don't need would be required; not to mention getting on the trainer all winter; or getting a strada like eric did. We have 5 months here that are unridable and in a bad year can can be 6 or 7.

 

[Jeremy S]

For me, step 1 would be

For me, step 1 would be giving up ice cream and dropping the 20 lbs I don't need would be required

Ditto on the ice cream but more like 30+ pounds to drop here (or one Cruzbike worth).

 

[LarryOz]

I also like the idea, but I

I also like the idea, but I also think targeting 2016 would make more sense.
Here are my reasons and other thoughts on the topic
It would allow everyone to have time to either get their bikes and bodies tuned up.
Also, for those of us financially challenged, some time to save for the event.
I also think that with the extra time, the team may be able to do some significant "advertising", which may help in securing sponsors to help offset the cost, as well as fund raising for the charity. (Having said that, I agree with Lief's suggestion of making our charity of choice, 3000 miles to a cure.)
Personally, I also only want to enter if I think we could win AND set the record for time. Not only for recumbents, but any non-fared bike team!
I know this is a lofty goal, but I think attainable with the proper strategy and training.
We already have Jim, Maria, Jackie, and John who have gone through RAAM as either a participant or support.
That experience will be invaluable in the success of the team.
But, an 8 person team will also call for a different strategy. It is no longer just one person's fitness, will power, and drive to ride endless miles. Now is it a relay, almost a series of coordinated 40K Time Trials. In my mind that is probably what the group would have to train for. In this scenario, each person would be called on to ride 3 (40K or so) Time Trials every 8 hours. That would give about 7 hours rest between each one. Experimentation and practice may yield a better mixture of riding to resting (30 min rides each 4 hours, 40 min rides every 6, etc). Point is, first we have to figure out the optimal, then plan a training strategy and execute it, culminating on tapering for the RAAM event in June. This would make 2015 RAAM hard gear up for. Just not enough time.
I recently did a 40K just to benchmark myself on the Silvio at my current fitness level. I came in at 59:30 for 24.2 mph. (It was not an exhaustive effort, on rain slicked roads, a couple of super sharp gravel filled turns, 5 sets of RR tracks, one steepish hill, and with Q-rings non-optimal.) Nevertheless, I was pretty pleased at a first try ..... but that is the average the team would have to ride every hour to just get close to the RAAM record, and that does not count the climbing! My personal goal is to be able to do 30 mph for a 40K. I am hoping that with a Vendetta, Carbon aero wheels with discs), Q-rings set for flat ground, flat course, perfect conditions, and of course better training and nutrition, that this is attainable. Now with that average on a flat course, I think if we could get the correct group of people that could all train with that same goal in mind, attain maximum fitness, take advantage of the equipment and training (and of course train!) we could really do something extraordinary! Practicing together at times would also be a plus, if not a requirement. That will be a challenging feat!
That's my 2 cents for now. Looking forward to the continued debate and conversation!
Larry

 

[ratz]

If I recall

I seem to recall Eric mentioning in the past; that teams of 4 and 8 typically split into two squads. one Squad rides on the nut while the other Squad rests. This allows for more a bit more recovery time for the resting squad. A descent understanding of sleep cycles and recovery times would be vital if you want to get most out of a team; not all riders are created equal figuring out how to maximize each one is the trick; 1 rider blowing up on a climb and no plan to correct would derail a record attempt pretty quick. Given all the telemetry that the races track there should be data from the GPS era to see what works and doesn't work for the teams that ride. Once Trip to Venice to buy John lunch would probably be insightful for determining the level of craziness.

 

[Eric Winn]

Eric (me) has zero expertise,

Eric (me) has zero expertise, I'm a noob. I was quoting something I had read, I think on one of the RAAM website pages, about how often an 8 person team swaps out between riders which surprised me. I was thinking it would work like Larry describes but I think the bit I read said something about much more frequent and shorter turns. I'll try and find it again and edit this post.

Bob and I had been PM'ing and he mentioned 3 hours per day for an 8 man team presumably just based on math (24/8 = 3). I replied with this, "Some of the stuff I saw about the team stuff is the "right way" to do it is to rotate the riders every 20 minutes rather than several hours at a time".

I still need to find where I saw this.

Rider Ride Time
1 20
2 20
3 20
4 20
5 20
6 20
7 20
8 20

Rider 1 goes hard and fast for 20 minutes and then has 140 minutes of rest (2 hours, 20 minutes) and resumes his next 20 minute pull. Same thing with the other riders.

This results in 9 rotations per rider in a 24 hour period. 20+140 = 160*9 = 1440 (24 hours).

I guess kind of like an ocean crossing on a small vessel with only a few people where you rotate through short watch/rest periods to always have someone on watch until the ocean is crossed...

Lose a rider and you are looking at 20 minutes hard and fast followed by 120 minutes of rest (2 hours), and so on.

I can see how this would work. Logistics is probably pretty challenging....

Strategy for strengths and weaknesses amongst your team for terrain and weather? Do you stick to your line-up all the way to the end or do you change the line-up for different sections of the course depending on individual rider strengths?

-Eric

 

[ccetex]

This would take a huge commitment

I am fairly new to this but I would think the commitment from the team would need start no later than January 1 for the 2016 ride.
The time to train, the time to plan, the time to raise funds, etc. has to start soon. I would be very interested in being a part of this.
Is the 8 person teams all ages or are there age brackets?
Does the team have to qualify?
This would be a great goal to set for 2016!!!
I am planning on doing the 24 hours in the Canyon next year.
I turn 60 on the 21st of this month and have been checking off bucket list items for the last year. This would be a great item to add to that list!!
I think I could come up with some good sponsors for vehicles and maybe a mechanic that has been on the RAAM before if needed.

Chuck

 

[Robert Holler]

With two girls wanting to go

With two girls wanting to go to college something like this is a far stretch for me at any age.

I think the Bacchetta record would be easy to topple.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Jim Verheul is your man

Completing a ride coast to coast across the US is on my bucket list, and I'd love to contribute to an 8-person RAAM team. Unfortunately my present personal circumstances suggest that being involved in 2016 won't be possible. I can tell you that severely pains me. So my small contribution is as follows:

Some people on this forum may recall the excitement of Team Bent Up Cycles involvement in RAAM 2010. This was a four-man team riding Carbents and Bacchetta CA2s that placed 3rd in their age group. The team was comprised of Dana Lieberman, Jim Verheul, Willie Hunt and Kent Polk. These guys are all strong riders, though I suspect Kent and Jim were the two strongest.

Jim Verheul coached the team, and I'm guessing he determined the team strategy as well. Unsurprisingly he has gone on to coach Maria Parker (and I assume Jim as well) to some fairly reasonable success.

My recollection is that Team Bent Up Cycles used a time trial strategy similar to that laid out by Eric above.

Given his experience and coaching success, JV is pretty much the go-to-guy for assisting with coaching and strategy for a team RAAM attempt. You can find him at JBV Coaching - http://jbvcoaching.com/jimverheul.asp

Kind regards...

 

[KiwiGuy]

The Team Bent Up Cycles RAAM adventure

For the interested, the Team Bent Up Cycles RAAM story is told in 18 short chapters on the Bent Up Cycles blog.

You can find those stories here: http://www.bentupcycles.blogspot.co.nz/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=46

It is a fascinating read.

Kind regards...

 

[KiwiGuy]

PAC Tour for adventurers

One other thought.

If competition is your thing, then RAAM might be what you want to do.

However, if adventure is more your focus (as it is for me) then putting together a group of Cruzbike riders to do a PAC Tour together is a way easier, and probably more interesting, approach to take.

PAC Tour information here> http://www.pactour.com/about.html

Kind regards...

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Reading with

Reading with enthusiasm.

Enough, said!

 

[LarryOz]

Fantastic idea!
It would be

Fantastic idea!
It would be an ideal way for all of us to do something and hang out together without the pressure of trying to train and win RAAM!
I thought about doing this anyway, as a way to prepare (and qualify) for RAAM when I was thinking (solo)!
Also, based on the pricing I saw, it would cost about the same for a PAC tour than just the entry fee (per person) for RAAM, so ultimately cheaper in the long run.

If we scheduled something like this for next spring or summer, it could still be used as the springboard for a RAAM team for 2016!
Something to think about.
At this point, I would say count me in! (All I need to do is get a yellow bike, or paint S yellow. haha!)
Some just needs to do some initial research and start a new thread!

 

[Lief]

I knew this was a good idea

Thanks for all of the links and interest.
I too would be interested in a PAC tour but I still can't get the idea of racing out of my head.
Right now I'm not paying attention to the cost (but when it comes down to it I have two daughters who will need to go to college too).

I like Bob's idea of crewing (at least) for another team to learn the ropes.
I like the idea of racing a RAAM qual like Larry did couple weeks back.
I like the idea of getting all these ideas into one place.

Things like JVerheul, team rotation timing (CRAZY?), etc etc.

At least it's feeding my current obsession.
Lief

 

[LarryOz]

For those interested: I have

For those interested: I have started a new thread: PAC Elite Tour Interest for 2015
with information and to gather interest about the PAC Elite Tour

 

[Jim Parker]

I would enjoy a 4 or 8 person

I would enjoy a 4 or 8 person RAAM relay and it plays to my riding strengths better than super long solo rides. It's also over pretty quickly... one week off work and you are done. Logistically, a relay is harder than solo because the train NEVER stops. More riders need more crew and more vehicles, so the cost explodes. I wish I could say Cruzbike could sponsor it, but in reality we'd need other sponsors to share the cost. We just don't have a budget like that yet. Also, while I have some experience in RAAM preparations, I'd want someone else to be the chief and guide the process. Those are my thoughts. Thanks for bringing this up, Lief.

Jim

 

[trplay]

another thought

RAAM is well beyond my comfort level due to costs and logistics requirements. The Trans America is much more attractive to me. But, why not start with something that is a lot less extreme? The Hoo-Doo 3 day stage Race is begging for recumbents. The Hoo-Doo is considered a climbing race. It has high profile DF entries. A Team Cruzbike would be awesome, especially since no recumbent has ever entered the race. Lots of reasons to do this. The first is we have Cruzbike riders actually capable of winning the race in multiple categories. The second is lower level riders like myself could actually contribute by pulling those "in it to win it" early each day and then drop back and cruise to the finish. Since the race is 200 miles the first day, then 175 and 145 miles we would have an enjoyable time next day planning and socializing at the control hotel each day. I believe a Cruzbike Hoo-Doo win (or multiple wins) is a lot more noticible to the DF community than another team type RAAM finish. Surely it is a lot more doable (cost/ logistics/ physical)for most of us.