First Cruzbike s40 vs v20c

[Damien]

Hi.

Finally, after nearly 2 months of waiting for my account to be approved, I can finally start posting!

My name I Damian. I've been looking into recumbent bikes for quite some time (I've never owned one) and I'm getting ready to buy my first. I live in Poland, and here it's a niche within a niche—apparently someone has a Cruzbike—but I've never seen one in person in Poland. Unfortunately.

A bit about me—I've been a road cyclist for many years. I'm in my 30s. For almost 10 years, I've been riding long distances—mainly brevets recently—so distances of 200/300 or even 1000+ km are pure pleasure for me. Last year, during Paris Brest Paris, I had the chance to see a Cruzbike for the first time in person. This year, before riding the Midnight Sun Randonnee brevet in Sweden, I came across Tor Hovland's YouTube channel—whom I noticed is active on this forum and rides many brevets on a Cruzbike V20c. A Cruzbike also showed up at this brevet.

Even though I don't have major issues with sitting on a traditional bike saddle for long periods—which I see is often a motivation for riding a recumbent bike—I wanted to try something new. My question is, am I looking in the right place? And would the S40 or V20c be a better fit for me? I live in a very hilly area—close to the mountains. A typical elevation gain on my usual 50 km (~31 miles) training rides ranges from 400 to 900 meters (1,300 to 3,000 feet). I ride at a moderate speed—my average, depending on the day, is between 22 and 27 km/h (14-17 mph)—so I'm not a super athlete but also I am not slow. But when I do brevets, I ride them in all conditions, and I like that the S40 offers the option to mount full fenders, which I miss on my Specialized Roubaix. I also appreciate the greater flexibility for attaching bags—or even panniers. On the V20c, of course, I like that it's faster and partly made of carbon. From what I've seen in pictures and videos, it also doesn't seem to have much trouble with attaching bikepacking gear.

Because I am located in the European Union, I don't have the opportunity to test a Cruzbike before purchasing. The purchase itself is very expensive due to high shipping costs as well as customs duties. Therefore, I absolutely cannot afford a spontaneous purchase—because the cost of just the frame is much higher than my complete carbon Specialized with Di2 is worth. I've looked at other alternatives, like the Azub Max 700—which is too big and heavy for me (I tried it out). Another option on the table is the Italian Slyway Ultra (there's a good thread about it on the forum, which I read), but in my opinion, it's too much of a race bike for short distances, and I need something different. Slyway Ultra biggest pros is price 4250 USD for frameset (with tax - shipping price will be less than 100 USD) vs around 6985 USD for frameset v20c (with taxes, duties and shipping - price from Cruzbike shop calculation). So this makes differece.

Do you have any advice—what would you suggest? And what is a 'recumebentbutt' ?

Best regards for all cycling freaks!
D.

 

[LarryOz]

I rode the Sweden N-S brevet this Tor this past year - we were both riding V20's- however after seeing all the climbing that was involved I would do it on an S40 the next time. The V20 is faster on the flats and downhills, but the S40 is faster uphill and also designed to carry gear much easier than the V20

Recumbentbutt - also know as recumbutt - is where you "butt" goes a little numb because the weight of your torso is pushing down on it in the seat. Not everyone experiences this. I think the lighter and smaller person you are the less like this is to happen. More padding usually takes care of it and I also think you body gets used to it to.

 

[Robertas]

Hi.

Finally, after nearly 2 months of waiting for my account to be approved, I can finally start posting!

My name I Damian. I've been looking into recumbent bikes for quite some time (I've never owned one) and I'm getting ready to buy my first. I live in Poland, and here it's a niche within a niche—apparently someone has a Cruzbike—but I've never seen one in person in Poland. Unfortunately.

A bit about me—I've been a road cyclist for many years. I'm in my 30s. For almost 10 years, I've been riding long distances—mainly brevets recently—so distances of 200/300 or even 1000+ km are pure pleasure for me. Last year, during Paris Brest Paris, I had the chance to see a Cruzbike for the first time in person. This year, before riding the Midnight Sun Randonnee brevet in Sweden, I came across Tor Hovland's YouTube channel—whom I noticed is active on this forum and rides many brevets on a Cruzbike V20c. A Cruzbike also showed up at this brevet.

Even though I don't have major issues with sitting on a traditional bike saddle for long periods—which I see is often a motivation for riding a recumbent bike—I wanted to try something new. My question is, am I looking in the right place? And would the S40 or V20c be a better fit for me? I live in a very hilly area—close to the mountains. A typical elevation gain on my usual 50 km (~31 miles) training rides ranges from 400 to 900 meters (1,300 to 3,000 feet). I ride at a moderate speed—my average, depending on the day, is between 22 and 27 km/h (14-17 mph)—so I'm not a super athlete but also I am not slow. But when I do brevets, I ride them in all conditions, and I like that the S40 offers the option to mount full fenders, which I miss on my Specialized Roubaix. I also appreciate the greater flexibility for attaching bags—or even panniers. On the V20c, of course, I like that it's faster and partly made of carbon. From what I've seen in pictures and videos, it also doesn't seem to have much trouble with attaching bikepacking gear.

Because I am located in the European Union, I don't have the opportunity to test a Cruzbike before purchasing. The purchase itself is very expensive due to high shipping costs as well as customs duties. Therefore, I absolutely cannot afford a spontaneous purchase—because the cost of just the frame is much higher than my complete carbon Specialized with Di2 is worth. I've looked at other alternatives, like the Azub Max 700—which is too big and heavy for me (I tried it out). Another option on the table is the Italian Slyway Ultra (there's a good thread about it on the forum, which I read), but in my opinion, it's too much of a race bike for short distances, and I need something different. Slyway Ultra biggest pros is price 4250 USD for frameset (with tax - shipping price will be less than 100 USD) vs around 6985 USD for frameset v20c (with taxes, duties and shipping - price from Cruzbike shop calculation). So this makes differece.

Do you have any advice—what would you suggest? And what is a 'recumebentbutt' ?

Best regards for all cycling freaks!
D.

Hi Damien,

Come to Lithuania, I will provide my V20C for test.

 

[Damien]

Hey Larry.
Thanks for your reply. I saw your adventures in Sweden on YouTube—by the way, I think I’ve watched most of the internet about Cruzbike How did you like northern Sweden?
It’s interesting that you say the S40 is better for climbing. What makes it better? Is it the more upright seat angle that allows you to apply more force and push with your whole body?
As I mentioned, I live in a hilly area and I’m close to the mountains. Most of my rides take place in this terrain—typically all the brevets too—most of Poland is flat, and people want something different, so they come here for brevets I’m curious if I’ll experience recumbutt—I’m light, so hopefully not .
I’m also wondering what would be the best drivetrain setup. On a daily basis, I ride Shimano 105 Di2 with a 50/34 crankset and an 11/36 cassette. But I’ve also ridden with an 11/34, and sometimes still use an 11/29 (my retired 2003 Specialized Allez on Campagnolo Veloce—which mostly spends time on the trainer). Regarding gearing, I definitely appreciate having a 36-tooth large cog now. In the foothills—where some ultra-marathon routes I ride go—there are brutal climbs, sometimes with gradients of up to 20%. I have no reference point for what gearing is needed on a recumbent bike. I’m also thinking, with my recent experience with a 2x12 drivetrain, whether it might be better to go with a 1x12, since many gears overlap, and I never actually use the smallest cog on my current road bike. I’m thinking that combinations like a 48-tooth chainring in front and 10/36 or similar in the back might be more efficient in terms of utilizing the full range of the cassette.

 

[Damien]

Hi Robertas!
I also know of your achievements from YouTube! As I mentioned, I’ve seen most of the internet worldwide. Unfortunately, I’m from Cracow which means I’m very far from you, unfortunately But thank you very much for the invitation. By the way, this year I met a few people from Lithuania at events – you are welcome to visit us as well. Greetings from the entire Audax Poland.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

I’m also wondering what would be the best drivetrain setup. On a daily basis, I ride Shimano 105 Di2 with a 50/34 crankset and an 11/36 cassette. But I’ve also ridden with an 11/34, and sometimes still use an 11/29 (my retired 2003 Specialized Allez on Campagnolo Veloce—which mostly spends time on the trainer). Regarding gearing, I definitely appreciate having a 36-tooth large cog now. In the foothills—where some ultra-marathon routes I ride go—there are brutal climbs, sometimes with gradients of up to 20%. I have no reference point for what gearing is needed on a recumbent bike. I’m also thinking, with my recent experience with a 2x12 drivetrain, whether it might be better to go with a 1x12, since many gears overlap, and I never actually use the smallest cog on my current road bike. I’m thinking that combinations like a 48-tooth chainring in front and 10/36 or similar in the back might be more efficient in terms of utilizing the full range of the cassette.

As you are in a hilly area and you currently have as smallest gear 34 (chainring) - 36 (biggest cog on cassette), if you want to go 1 * 12 you should probably look at a 42 chainring and something like 10 - 46 or even 10 - 50 cassette. I find that on my cruzbike I tend to use a higher cadence so for climbing I use the 50 cog a lot. I run SRAM GX Eagle and am very happy about it.

 

[ak-tux]

Hey Larry.
Thanks for your reply. I saw your adventures in Sweden on YouTube—by the way, I think I’ve watched most of the internet about Cruzbike How did you like northern Sweden?
It’s interesting that you say the S40 is better for climbing. What makes it better? Is it the more upright seat angle that allows you to apply more force and push with your whole body?
As I mentioned, I live in a hilly area and I’m close to the mountains. Most of my rides take place in this terrain—typically all the brevets too—most of Poland is flat, and people want something different, so they come here for brevets I’m curious if I’ll experience recumbutt—I’m light, so hopefully not .
I’m also wondering what would be the best drivetrain setup. On a daily basis, I ride Shimano 105 Di2 with a 50/34 crankset and an 11/36 cassette. But I’ve also ridden with an 11/34, and sometimes still use an 11/29 (my retired 2003 Specialized Allez on Campagnolo Veloce—which mostly spends time on the trainer). Regarding gearing, I definitely appreciate having a 36-tooth large cog now. In the foothills—where some ultra-marathon routes I ride go—there are brutal climbs, sometimes with gradients of up to 20%. I have no reference point for what gearing is needed on a recumbent bike. I’m also thinking, with my recent experience with a 2x12 drivetrain, whether it might be better to go with a 1x12, since many gears overlap, and I never actually use the smallest cog on my current road bike. I’m thinking that combinations like a 48-tooth chainring in front and 10/36 or similar in the back might be more efficient in terms of utilizing the full range of the cassette.

If you like climbing steep grades and would like to use the 1x drivetrains then, I suggest atleast a 1:1 gear ratio at the lower end or even less. The reason is that there is no "off saddling" on a recumbent. You can "bridge" for a short time(5 - 10 seconds) but extended climbs need a good low gear for a good spin.

I have an S40 too. It climbs quite well, but my upright road bike edges it out slightly. I have a 1x11drivetrain. My cassette is an 11-46 Sunrace. My Chainring is currently a 46T narrow-wide from AliExpress. But I have also tried 44T. I think the 44T was the best all-rounder chainring for that cassette.

 

[Damien]

Thank you for your reply. First, I need to become a Cruzbike owner.
If it turns out to be just a frameset, I'll probably start by using what I already have in the garage.
I have almost a complete mechanical Shimano 105 11-speed group with an 11-34 cassette. I would also need to get a crankset—because the Praxis Alba I have is junk—I can’t find replacement chainrings anywhere, and one of the teeth is broken. I had to buy a used crankset to replace that chainring. After a few months, the same thing happened again, and that motivated me to replace the entire groupset. The crankset issue is a separate story—because, as I’ve researched, shorter cranks are recommended. I’m currently using 170mm, so if possible, I’d aim for 160mm. Supposedly, the Shimano 105 11-speed can work with an 11-36 cassette, but I don’t have any experience to confirm if that’s actually the case.

However, I think I’d prefer to stick with Shimano so I can swap components between my two bikes. But on the other hand, the new SRAM Rival AXS XPLR is very attractively priced—and I’m tempted by it. But as I said—those dilemmas will be solved later.

@ak-tux
BTW, I’ve also seen your videos on YouTube—everyone seems to have their own channels—actually, I have my own too, but there’s nothing about recumbent bikes on it yet

 

[JerseyJim]

I've been riding long distances—mainly brevets recently—so distances of 200/300 or even 1000+ km are pure pleasure for me. Last year, during Paris Brest Paris, I had the chance to see a Cruzbike for the first time in person.

My question is, am I looking in the right place? And would the S40 or V20c be a better fit for me? I live in a very hilly area—close to the mountains.

Because I am located in the European Union, I don't have the opportunity to test a Cruzbike before purchasing. The purchase itself is very expensive due to high shipping costs as well as customs duties. Therefore, I absolutely cannot afford a spontaneous purchase—because the cost of just the frame is much higher than my complete carbon Specialized with Di2 is worth

Do you have any advice—what would you suggest? And what is a 'recumebentbutt' ?

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here...

Recumbutt: Larry explained it well. It's pain and numbness in the glutes, seemingly due to pressure. My opinion is that one's individual physiology has the most influence on this. There's a lot of talk about changing the seat angle to something less upright however I think that doing strength training on the posterior chain, and the glutes specifically, goes some way toward mitigating recumbutt. I ride a T50, which would be the recumbutt poster child. I'm convinced that adding kettlebell swings to my strength training has tightened my glutes and warded off the effects of recumbutt. Another benefit is that ladies seem to appreciate this effort too.

As far as which model to buy, I can't comment from experience since as I mentioned I ride a T50...as least for now. I think I'll be done building my S30 this weekend. At least I better be since I want to ride it in a century event at the end of the month. That brings me to the kind of riding I do, which is mainly randonneuring. I was also at PBP last year on my T50. One thing I have learned from that experience is that I should prioritize pace over comfort. To that end, I would choose a faster bike for long brevets and carry less. You can carry more stuff on an S40, but you don't need to carry as much stuff if you get to checkpoints quicker where you can refill, and you're on the road for less time overall. A "fast" bike really means an efficient bike, meaning more watts go into forward motion than are wasted. Over long distances, this can determine when fatigue kicks in. Hopefully, on a fast bike, you'll be closer to the end of the event when it does.

All that said, it seems that in your situation buying a frameset is probably the most economical route. As you've indicated, swapping parts from another bike is an easy way to get a new build on the road. Randonneurs typically do a lot of mods to their bikes specific to long distance riding, so you'll be able to get the components you want locally and cheaper. Also don't worry about trends like shorter cranks. By all means try them if you like, but if you fit on the bike and you're not having any physiological issues with 170 mm crank arms, then you're probably not missing anything. The testing I've seen on crank arm length shows that shorter cranks are effective in correcting a poor fit, thus providing relief from pain or discomfort, and/or creates a marginal gain in pedaling efficiency. For your body, 170mm could already be optimum.

Good luck in your search. I hope you can get a test ride somewhere near you.

 

[Damien]

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here...

Recumbutt: Larry explained it well. It's pain and numbness in the glutes, seemingly due to pressure. My opinion is that one's individual physiology has the most influence on this. There's a lot of talk about changing the seat angle to something less upright however I think that doing strength training on the posterior chain, and the glutes specifically, goes some way toward mitigating recumbutt. I ride a T50, which would be the recumbutt poster child. I'm convinced that adding kettlebell swings to my strength training has tightened my glutes and warded off the effects of recumbutt. Another benefit is that ladies seem to appreciate this effort too.

As far as which model to buy, I can't comment from experience since as I mentioned I ride a T50...as least for now. I think I'll be done building my S30 this weekend. At least I better be since I want to ride it in a century event at the end of the month. That brings me to the kind of riding I do, which is mainly randonneuring. I was also at PBP last year on my T50. One thing I have learned from that experience is that I should prioritize pace over comfort. To that end, I would choose a faster bike for long brevets and carry less. You can carry more stuff on an S40, but you don't need to carry as much stuff if you get to checkpoints quicker where you can refill, and you're on the road for less time overall. A "fast" bike really means an efficient bike, meaning more watts go into forward motion than are wasted. Over long distances, this can determine when fatigue kicks in. Hopefully, on a fast bike, you'll be closer to the end of the event when it does.

All that said, it seems that in your situation buying a frameset is probably the most economical route. As you've indicated, swapping parts from another bike is an easy way to get a new build on the road. Randonneurs typically do a lot of mods to their bikes specific to long distance riding, so you'll be able to get the components you want locally and cheaper. Also don't worry about trends like shorter cranks. By all means try them if you like, but if you fit on the bike and you're not having any physiological issues with 170 mm crank arms, then you're probably not missing anything. The testing I've seen on crank arm length shows that shorter cranks are effective in correcting a poor fit, thus providing relief from pain or discomfort, and/or creates a marginal gain in pedaling efficiency. For your body, 170mm could already be optimum.

Good luck in your search. I hope you can get a test ride somewhere near you.

Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I am definitely one of those who, during long-distance brevets, prioritize comfort above all else. I'm not racing and I don't care about breaking records. But so far, I’ve also never had to worry about the time limit. After my first PBP (Paris-Brest-Paris), I regretted not sleeping more and not using the entire time limit—because the event was fantastic. If it weren't for the dark cloud chasing me, I would have ridden longer. Next year, my goal is London-Edinburgh-London. What you’re saying about crank length is interesting. In the end, do those few millimeters really make such a difference? I hope to find out soon.

 

[Bo6]

I went to visit a friend with a S40 down the road, to see how different it felt from my Q45. He also has a Softrider and the original kit bike and a couple of other recumbents. His S40 was all kitted out for touting with a tail box and pannier racks so weighed about the same as my Q45. The front end felt a bit lighter, though on the scale was the same as the Q45. There was a bit less flop n the frontend and the seating position was very comfortable. I found the seating to feel much more reclined though the view forward was still very good, start stopping was easy and balancing though a bit different was easy. The short ride made me think that the S40 is the better bike for the around town, group rides and hilly terrain that I enjoy.

Too bad the carbon front end on the V20c isn't available the S40, it would make my ideal bike. I know there is only a few pounds different, but 2 lbs on the front end could make an even nicer ride and lighter feel.

 

[JerseyJim]

I am definitely one of those who, during long-distance brevets, prioritize comfort above all else.. After my first PBP (Paris-Brest-Paris), I regretted not sleeping more and not using the entire time limit—because the event was fantastic.

After posting, I was thinking that the exception to pace over comfort would be riders who do "full value" randonneuring, that is they use all the time allotted. In that case, it makes the most sense to prioritize comfort.

With the new ACP rules about intermediate controles on all brevets, chasing closing times is not a thing anymore, so that also supports full value randonneuring.

I agree, PBP was fantastic. It's so much more than a bike ride. The French are very proud of their traditions. Their love for cycling and their pride regarding their place in cycling history is evident at this event. The French countryside is beautiful. The roads were superb. The people were generous beyond measure. It's something special.

 

[Damien]

After posting, I was thinking that the exception to pace over comfort would be riders who do "full value" randonneuring, that is they use all the time allotted. In that case, it makes the most sense to prioritize comfort.

I paid for 90 hours so I wanna ride 90 h! PBP is not a race - maybe for few riders this statement isn't true. For rest of - this is social ride, challenge or life time travel. For me it was great opportunity to met cycling freaks from around the word. I had ambition to talk with all nations (I didn't archive this - it wasn't able to find all). After the first night, I lost my voice from talking.
But I don't regret anything. That's why I prioritize comfort over speed – because what's the point of speed at PBP when you'll end up stuck at a checkpoint waiting in line for pasta anyway?

 

[JerseyJim]

But I don't regret anything. That's why I prioritize comfort over speed – because what's the point of speed at PBP when you'll end up stuck at a checkpoint waiting in line for pasta anyway?

As far as what Cruzbike would suit you between the V20 and S40, I think you've answered your own question in this exchange. An S40 would suit your riding style better.

Keep your eye out for a used one in Europe and be open to travel for it. Arguably I'm biased, but Cruzbikes are really top notch bikes. They're worth it.

 

[Damien]

I think I'll soon start finalizing the process of bringing the bike from the USA. It's going to cost me a fortune, and I don't think I'll tell anyone how much exactly. On the other hand, a bike isn't like a tattoo—it's not a decision for life. If I don't like it, I can always sell it.

But this is just the beginning of my journey—I’ll have to assemble it. Get used to it. Then, do the fitting. See how it rides on distances of 100, 200, 300... 1000 km, and so on. And probably a lot of modifications along the way. My Specialized Roubaix 2020, after four years, is a completely different bike. If I end up liking the Cruzbike, I’ll also strive for perfection.

 

[Karl42]

Some would argue that the V20 is more comfortable than the S40 because of the butt issue. On my old recumbent with a more upright position I once overstressed a nerve in my butt after a long ride (Brevet distance), and that took several months to heal. Because of this I would (could) never ride an S40 on long Brevets.
On the V20, I put some dense foam mats on the seat to give extra lumbar support, and also to rest most of my weight there, so that there is much less pressure on the butt, and this works very well for me, and I have done over 600km in one session on that bike without issues.

 

[Damien]

Is recumbutt more bothersome than typical upright bike saddle issues?

 

[Karl42]

The problem is that this is highly personal, so everyone here will give you a different answer. If you search this forum, you will find quite a few people who have this problem on the S40 and find riding on this bike painful.
For me personally, this only manifested on very long rides (over 200km), so it is likely that many riders who never sit on the bike this long will never have any issues, and report here that everything is fine.
But if you are affected by this, it can be really bad.

In the end you have to try it out for yourself. Also, you can easily raise the seat angle on the V20 with a wedge or some other means, but you can't really lower the seat angle of the S40. That's why I would recommend the V20 over the S40 if you are considering ultra-long distances.

 

[roadhog]

I bought a used s40 frameset from the US. much better value. The S40 works well as a do it all bike. I would suggest buying used. Either frame or complete. There are companies that ship cheaper to Europe. I used jet carrier don't know if they ship to Poland.

 

[chicorider]

Is recumbutt more bothersome than typical upright bike saddle issues?

Recumbutt is different than saddle issues with an upright bike. On an upright bike, saddle pain is often caused by spending lengths of time pedaling with a fair amount of your body weight concentrated on two small contact points--your sit bones--that don't have much padding. Add some friction and chafing in there, and you could be heading for saddle sores. But even without sores, spending whole days on those tiny sit bones is asking a lot.

Recumbutt is different. With Cruzbikes, your upper body weight is distributed more evenly over the length of the seatpan, which is much of what makes these bikes so comfortable on long rides. But as the seat angle rises, and the position becomes more like sitting in a chair than lying on a bed, more of your body weight will concentrate in the glutes. The issue for some, myself included, is that sitting on the same muscles that you are also using for propulsion can create soreness, or, "recumbutt." Unlike the sharp, specific pain caused by an upright bike's saddle, recumbutt is more of a generalized ache in the glutes. Neither of them are pleasant, but they feel different. They have a similar effect, though. As the ride progresses, the pain becomes the focal point, taking the pleasure out of the ride and making you wish you were on the last mile/kilometer instead of still being many miles/kilometers out.

I've ridden a V20 (now V20c) for nine years, and have never had recumbutt. On my S30, which I still have, I might have about 10-15 minutes of mild recumbutt early in a ride, but then it goes away and I'm good for the rest of the day. With my S40, recumbutt would settle in early and become progressively worse as the ride unfolded, pushing me to eventually take shortcuts home. I sold that bike because of this.

The tricky thing is that not everybody suffers recumbutt. Plenty of people ride the S40 without issue, and some with issues have managed to hack the seating situation with success (much of which has been documented on this forum). Others have tried, but not succeeded. Some have ridden enough through the pain to eventually have it go away on its own, while for others that relief never comes. The gamble has more to do with one's physiology than it does bike design. You might have glutes that won't mind riding an S40. But then again... If you lived in the States, I'd say try the S40 because it sounds like the bike that will suit your needs and riding style best. If it doesn't work out, you can most likely sell it and recoup much of your cost (I call the difference a "long-term rental fee" that allowed me to try a bike out). But with the added expense of taxes and shipping to the EU, the risk is a little higher. Selling a CB in the EU looks to be pretty easy because demand is relatively high compared to the supply, but you might take more of a hit in what you can sell it for vs. what it cost you to get it there.

Then again, you could take the chance and have it all work out, and be on a bike ready to gobble up brevets like nobody's business.