Front fairing

Robert Stewart · Jun 3, 2008

Hi Guys,

Any ideas on which commercial front fairing designs will fit and work well on the Silvio? I asked HP Velo about the Streamer fairing, and they sent me this response:

>Hello Robert Stewart,
>
>thank you for your inquiry.
>
>We checked with our R&D department and they think that this will not work without massive modifications on the Streamer screen and mounts and your frame.
>
>yours sincerely from Kriftel
>
>Thomas Dannenmann

So no luck there then. What about the Mueller windwrap options? Any help appreciated.
Cheers,
Rob

Mark B · Jun 3, 2008

Robert Stewart wrote: Hi Guys,

Any ideas on which commercial front fairing designs will fit and work well on the Silvio? I asked HP Velo about the Streamer fairing, and they sent me this response:

>Hello Robert Stewart,
>
>thank you for your inquiry.
>
>We checked with our R&D department and they think that this will not work without massive modifications on the Streamer screen and mounts and your frame.
>
>yours sincerely from Kriftel
>
>Thomas Dannenmann

So no luck there then. What about the Mueller windwrap options? Any help appreciated.
Cheers,
Rob

Are you serious? Reading between the lines it says, "We're really not too interested in helping you, bub. Now, move along."

Mark

MrSteve · Jun 3, 2008

Peder Torgersen, a regular poster here, has a Sofrider and uses his Streamer fairing on it in the winter and on longer rainy club rides.
He also uses his Streamer on another one of his recumbents.

The front-end geometry of the Silvio is not all that different from other recumbents...
I have to agree with Mark: the salespeople you contacted for help seem to be allergic to money from anyone riding non-HP Velo equipment.
:roll:
-Steve

Robert Stewart · Jun 3, 2008

Hmmm... you may well both be right. In looking at the geometry myself I thought there would be no problem with the BB mount:

but that maybe the top mount would be at a funny angle, and/or wouldn't adjust correctly for length. Are there any pics of that softrider with a streamer on it?

Cheers,
Rob

p.s. In other news, I am trying to find out if this tail box will fit: http://www.futurecycles.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=131&category_id=&manufacturer_id=&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=91&vmcchk=1&Itemid=91

Hotdog · Jun 3, 2008

John T experimented with a fairing on the second prototype Silvio, I think it was a Windwrap. Image file is a bit too large for the board unfortunately, and as it's not mine I can't simply resize it:
Edit: Downloaded it, resized it, then uploaded it again as attachment... :roll:

I don't know how much has changed between the second prototype and the production Silvios, but I imagine you'd still be able to attach a fairing one way or another. Anyway, John T discusses Silvio fairings in several of the posts in the Cruzbike design blog, such as here and here.

Peder Torgersen · Jun 3, 2008

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21320247@N06/
http://www.cruzbike.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54

I do not need the cape now we have a “heat wave” it is about 25°C. There is very little wind this time of the year so the side wind does not mater but that can be a problem if there is much side wind. I made an extra bracket for the streamer to fit on the Sofrider. It is also nice this time of the year you still get some wind on your self for cooling. It functions very well on my Sofrider and I also use it on my Phantom. The Silvio is a little different then the Silvio. I have only seen a Silvio on pictures but it has a possibility of mounting the front bracket directly to the bike without the extra bracket. When I park the Sofrider with the streamer on it I can not use the standard kickstand then the bike tips over easily. So I just lean it against a wall. Last evening I rode with my friends on some dirt roads and trails I do not use it going in the forest.
The evenings are lovely here the sun is up to 22 00 in the evening and in the north they have the midnight sun.

Peder

kling · Jun 4, 2008

Found a photo of that fairing in action

Mark B · Jun 4, 2008

IMHO, all you would really need would be a bubble fairing that would eliminate the air resistance on your feet and lower torso. The upper body is so reclined, I doubt you get enough benifit to warrant packing it around.

Mark

Robert Stewart · Sep 11, 2008

Peder Torgersen wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21320247@N06/
http://www.cruzbike.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54

I do not need the cape now we have a “heat wave” it is about 25°C. There is very little wind this time of the year so the side wind does not mater but that can be a problem if there is much side wind. I made an extra bracket for the streamer to fit on the Sofrider. It is also nice this time of the year you still get some wind on your self for cooling. It functions very well on my Sofrider and I also use it on my Phantom. The Silvio is a little different then the Silvio. I have only seen a Silvio on pictures but it has a possibility of mounting the front bracket directly to the bike without the extra bracket. When I park the Sofrider with the streamer on it I can not use the standard kickstand then the bike tips over easily. So I just lean it against a wall. Last evening I rode with my friends on some dirt roads and trails I do not use it going in the forest.
The evenings are lovely here the sun is up to 22 00 in the evening and in the north they have the midnight sun.

Peder

Hi Peder, thanks for the help. I went ahead and ordered a streamer. Having looked into it more closely, I think there is a chance the bottom bracket mounting will work with minor or no adjustments. Failing that, I will clamp it to the frame. It should arrive in two weeks. Pictures to follow in my brag board thread.

Cheers,
Rob

DanD · Sep 11, 2008

I've been interested in a fairing/windrap as well. I am very curious to see your pictures and reports of how well it works out.

I just emailed the folks at windrap and got this reply:

> Hey, what can you guys do for a Silvio Cruzbike? http://www.cruzbike.com
>
> The entire front turns, unlike other recumbents. Will your system work with this bike?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
>
Yes,

The WW-CF fairing and MH-CF mounting, sorry I do not have any pictures at the moment.

the Cost for fairing and mount is $552 plus $15 shipping.

jeebus · Oct 9, 2008

Any updates? I'm looking forward hearing more about people's experiments with fairing options for the silvio. Around here the crosswinds usually aren't too bad so I think one might work out okay.

- Mark

Robert Stewart · Oct 20, 2008

I tried to fit the fairing at the weekend, but was foiled by the upper loop attachment being unable to tighten around the silvio sloping front tube (the Silvio tube is narrower than the typical SWB boom expected by the Streamer design). This was more than a little frustrating...

My new plan is to fit a cuff of some sort around the tube to fatten it up a bit and enable a good attachment. I have already found a candidate part so I am ready to try again in the next couple of days. I am also going to cut the front clamp down a bit to enable it to attach at a better angle (and lose some weight). I am confident I can make the geometry work once I actually get the base parts attached where I want them on the bike. What gives me this confidence is that the Streamer has good adjustability (length adjustment on both supporting tubes, plus forwards and backwards rotation at both the top and bottom of the tubes). Anyway, I will upload a report of the fitting procedure, with pics, when I finally get it sorted.

Keep watching this space...

Cheers,
Rob

Peder Torgersen · Oct 20, 2008

Robert Stewart wrote: I tried to fit the fairing at the weekend, but was foiled by the upper loop attachment being unable to tighten around the silvio sloping front tube (the Silvio tube is narrower than the typical SWB boom expected by the Streamer design). This was more than a little frustrating...

My new plan is to fit a cuff of some sort around the tube to fatten it up a bit and enable a good attachment. I have already found a candidate part so I am ready to try again in the next couple of days. I am also going to cut the front clamp down a bit to enable it to attach at a better angle (and lose some weight). I am confident I can make the geometry work once I actually get the base parts attached where I want them on the bike. What gives me this confidence is that the Streamer has good adjustability (length adjustment on both supporting tubes, plus forwards and backwards rotation at both the top and bottom of the tubes). Anyway, I will upload a report of the fitting procedure, with pics, when I finally get it sorted.

Keep watching this space...

Cheers,
Rob

I was able to fit the upper loop on my Sofrider with just buying a smaller hose clamp and using rubber around the tube to protect the paint and it also helps to keep it in place.

Peder

Robert Stewart · Oct 26, 2008

Well, I now have the fairing attached in a pretty good position. I had a quick ride this afternoon, and it felt good even without my clip in shoes and other cycling gear. Can't wait to give it a proper test, but that will have to wait until I get the handlebars changed over. My current midge bars are wider than the fairing, and I want my hands to be tucked in behind it. Consequently I am going back to the 46 cm normal drop bars I had originally (but with 6cm sawn off each end). I should have that set up by Tuesday, at which point I will post pics and begin reporting on my experience with the fairing. It's going to make the upcoming winter rides much more pleasant I am sure.

Another issue that has arisen is lighting. A normal bar mounted light isn't really a practical choice with the Streamer, unless you have the top end of the fairing very low in which case it could interfere with free knee movement as well as reducing the aero advantage. The fairing does come with a mount of sorts for attaching a light below the bottom edge of the fairing but that won't work with my current light either so I have been considering alternatives. I was looking at helmet mounted lights and by all accounts the Ay-Up lights from Oz are excellent:
http://www.ayup.com.au/

Then I spotted the fact that they have a new flexible 'gecko' mounting system:
http://www.ayup.com.au/news.php

Brilliant I thought. I can mount the light on the fairing itself, with a 6 hour battery either also attached to the fairing or the bars. What do you think? I called Ay-Up uk and they said they couldn't give me a definite date when the gecko mount would be available here, but it should be within a month.

Cheers,
Rob

Peder Torgersen · Oct 26, 2008

Robert Stewart wrote: Well, I now have the fairing attached in a pretty good position. I had a quick ride this afternoon, and it felt good even without my clip in shoes and other cycling gear. Can't wait to give it a proper test, but that will have to wait until I get the handlebars changed over. My current midge bars are wider than the fairing, and I want my hands to be tucked in behind it. Consequently I am going back to the 46 cm normal drop bars I had originally (but with 6cm sawn off each end). I should have that set up by Tuesday, at which point I will post pics and begin reporting on my experience with the fairing. It's going to make the upcoming winter rides much more pleasant I am sure.

Another issue that has arisen is lighting. A normal bar mounted light isn't really a practical choice with the Streamer, unless you have the top end of the fairing very low in which case it could interfere with free knee movement as well as reducing the aero advantage. The fairing does come with a mount of sorts for attaching a light below the bottom edge of the fairing but that won't work with my current light either so I have been considering alternatives. I was looking at helmet mounted lights and by all accounts the Ay-Up lights from Oz are excellent:
http://www.ayup.com.au/

Then I spotted the fact that they have a new flexible 'gecko' mounting system:
http://www.ayup.com.au/news.php

Brilliant I thought. I can mount the light on the fairing itself, with a 6 hour battery either also attached to the fairing or the bars. What do you think? I called Ay-Up uk and they said they couldn't give me a definite date when the gecko mount would be available here, but it should be within a month.

Cheers,
Rob

It’s good you found a method of mounting the streamer. I have one on my Sofrider looking forward to see from your coming pictures which solution you used. I mounted a tiny light on the lower bracket which lights under the streamer. I also use a head light. I’m no expert on lights those lights you found looked very good. I hope you will like the streamer be careful in high speeds if you risk getting side wind turning a corner or into an open area.

Peder

Robert Stewart · Nov 24, 2008

Hi all. Here's an update. I had my first long ride with the fairing on saturday (maybe 25 miles) and I am glad to report that the Streamer works very well on a Silvio.

To give some context, I hadn't ridden at all in a while due to a recent house move. Combined with the narrower bars, and the added weight of the fairing at the front, this made me a little worried about the handling. Not a problem as it turned out. I actually felt that the additional inertia of the fairing was reducing pedal steer and helping me to go in a straight line. Excellent for high speed cruzing.

Slow cornering was a bit trickier than with the bare bike; it all felt somewhat ponderous. However, I am sure this will improve with practice, and I'll take the trade-off any day.

I am glad to report that road noise was very limited, and what rattling there was, was due to my mounting setup, which I will improve tonight I hope. I think the front suspension helps a lot here.

It was blustery here on Saturday, and I got to experience wind from all directions. Into a head wind, it definitely felt easier than before and with a tail wind it felt like I had a sail - in a word awesome. In cross winds I can't say I ever really felt I was being pushed around. There was a bit of movement when a big truck thundered past, but nothing I couldn't handle.

Warmth and comfort were certainly improved, although my face was getting a bit of a blasting - nothing too bad but I am considering a helmet with a visor. It wasn't raining on Saturday, but I know I'm going to seriously appreciate the protection from that sort of weather too.

My camera is broken, hence no pics at the moment. More to come...

Cheers,
Rob

jeebus · Dec 3, 2008

I'm interested in your progress on the fairing. So what all did you end up having to buy to make it work, and how much skill was involved? Was it the hpvelotechnik streamer with what they're calling the standard mount? I'd love to try a fairing, but my mechanical abilities are pretty weak if I have to do much customization to make the mount fit the smallish tube on the silvio.

I'm a little surprised but happy to hear that it handles well so far with the fairing. My recollection is that John T did experiment with a fairing for a while on the first silvio prototypes but ultimately decided it wasn't working well. And I got the impression from the Enigma thread that one potential advantage of the new bike they're working on is that it'll be easier to run it with a fairing and perhaps a full sock.

Anyway whenever you have a camera working I'd love to see pics of how you got everything set up.

- Mark

Robert Stewart · Dec 4, 2008

Hi Mark,
Trust me, there are no great mechanical skills needed for this job. It just took a little thinking to work out how to best mount the Streamer, and some testing to get the position right. I am pretty much there now on both counts.

It will be easier to explain the process with pictures, but I will try to outline the process here in words. The tools required are spanners, allen keys and a hacksaw. The saw has been used in various places. First I used it to chop the ends off my handlebars. Next I used it to cut out the central linking bit of metal from the front fairing mount (a clamp is handy but not essential here. This leaves the mount as two parallel metal bars/strips with a channel down the middle, and an adjustable metal and plastic assembly at one end (the front) into which the front fairing tube slots. The two parallel metal parts are bolted onto those mounting points at the front of the frame using two long bolts, and adjusted so that the metal strips are as horizontal as possible (existing protective rubber/plastic strips on the top) and as far forward as possible. The front fairing tube goes in at an angle such that it just touches the bottom bracket shell and continues down towards the front tyre roughly parallel with the 'chainstays'. At some point I will chop that down as there is excessive tube length there for the Silvio.

For the rear mount, the sloping tube means that much less extension is needed than on a typical single tube recumbent. On this mount, there is one metal tube that comes down from the fairing, and a wider tube coming up from the frame into which the other tube slides. Not needed the extension, I cut down the tube that comes down from the fairing from maybe a foot long, to just three or four inches. It could probably be shorter. You don't see my messy hacksaw work here as it is concealed inside the other tube. To attach the bottom tube of this mount to the frame, a hose clip is used as previously discussed. As Peder suggested, a smaller clip would work better here, but I have a working solution using the original clip at maximum tightness, with a couple of bits of rubber to fatten up the tube and improve the coupling. It's not so crucial though because I have now adjusted the position such that the rear edge of the fairing actually sits on the hoods of the handlebars. This both protects my hands and produces a very stable four point mounting arrangement.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Rob

jeebus wrote: I'm interested in your progress on the fairing. So what all did you end up having to buy to make it work, and how much skill was involved? Was it the hpvelotechnik streamer with what they're calling the standard mount? I'd love to try a fairing, but my mechanical abilities are pretty weak if I have to do much customization to make the mount fit the smallish tube on the silvio.

I'm a little surprised but happy to hear that it handles well so far with the fairing. My recollection is that John T did experiment with a fairing for a while on the first silvio prototypes but ultimately decided it wasn't working well. And I got the impression from the Enigma thread that one potential advantage of the new bike they're working on is that it'll be easier to run it with a fairing and perhaps a full sock.

Anyway whenever you have a camera working I'd love to see pics of how you got everything set up.

- Mark

Robert Stewart · Jan 14, 2009

In case anyone hasn't noticed, I put some pictures of my fairing setup on a new brag board thread. Check them out.
Cheers,
Rob

Gromit · Jan 14, 2009

Robert Stewart wrote: In case anyone hasn't noticed, I put some pictures of my fairing setup on a new brag board thread. Check them out.
Cheers,
Rob

Link to Silvio brag board thread

Robert Stewart · Jan 15, 2009

Can't do that. I am posting from my mobile phone at the moment, and the functionality is limited for things like copying and pasting. Besides, there aren't that many threads on the brag board and I have only started two. The one you're looking for is entitled My Fair(ed) Silvio!
Cheers,
Rob

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