Introduction and some questions

[Greg S]

I don't see that this forum has a "general discussion" area where introductions are posted and this doesn't seem S40 specific but I'm not sure where else to post it so here goes:

Introduction

• I'm a long time cyclist (10K+miles/year for more than 30 years). I am a randonneur and do brevets up to and including Grand Randonnèes and have done PBP, LEL and a host of other 1200K+ brevets both domestic and international.
• I own a Bacchetta CA2.0, purchased 3 years ago when I was injured (back) to keep the legs spinning while I healed in the hope that I could do a 1200K in New Zealand (didn't work, ended up not going). The Bacchetta doesn't really "do it" for me and I've only ridden it either when injured or out of a sense of obligation (I'll likely sell it). I've put a grand total of about 1100 miles on it in the 3 years I've owned it.
• I'm heavily invested (both financially and emotionally) in DF bikes and have a number of bikes custom made for me.
• For reasons I've not been able to pinpoint, I started developing pain in both hands post PBP this year. I'm exploring a number of solutions (positional changes, aero bars, etc) and have purchased the S40 as one of these alternatives.
• The S40 does (kind of) "do it" for me, I've enjoyed riding it thus far. I've progressed past the "early beginner" stage (I can start/stop in a straight line, do u-turns, circles, use clipless pedals, etc) and am riding it on the roads (rural secondary roads with little to no traffic).
• I live in SW Wisconsin. It's very hilly here with gradients up to 22% and 7-11% common. It's hard to go more than 10 miles without some significant climbing so a bike (and it's rider!) need to be able to climb well. It's advertised ability as a climber is one of the things that attracted me to the Cruzbike.
• I do all my own bike work. None of my bikes have seen the inside of a bike shop, I build my own wheels.
• Oh, and I'm 65, 6'3" and 170 lbs.

OK, with intros out of the way, now to my questions (forgive the stream of consciousness, these are the smattering of things I want to know about right now):

• Is there a way to put the S40 on a maintenance stand? I have a Park PRS stand, a Feedback Sports Elite stand and a Park Team Issue stand. I also have a Hirobel (now Silca) frame clamp. I'm able to put the Bacchetta on the Park Team Issue but haven't seen an obvious way to put the S40 on any of my stands (I haven't tried much, just sort of stared at it).
• I have several travel solutions for my DF bikes including two S&S coupled bikes and a "regular" bike case (a BikeND Helium). I reached out to Maria and asked her about travel solutions for the S40 and she recommended the B&W Curve case which is essentially a box. Will the S40 go into a case similar to the BikeND (Evoc is an example) where the bike clamps to the case via the dropouts? I'd obviously rather not have to buy another case. Again, I've not tried this only stared at the bike and tried to visualize whether or not it will work.
• I realize this is probably the wrong place to ask but I'll ask anyway: does anyone alternate between a DF and a Cruzbike? I've read opinions that there's very little crossover from a training point of view between a DF and a recumbent, that it takes a couple of months to gain (or lose) your "bent legs". To clarify by an example: I could ride any one of my DF bikes exclusively for several weeks/months and jump on any of the others and go do a 1200K. It doesn't appear to me based on my experience thus far that would be possible with the Cruzbike i.e., if I wanted to do a long ride on the S40 I'd have to use it pretty close to exclusively for some period of time prior to the event. Is this true or is it possible to alternate between the S40 and a DF and then choose which one to ride based on terrain or whim? Real world experience (rather than opinion) on this would be much appreciated. Oh, and please don't suggest that I just trash my DF bikes.

That's it for now, thanks for reading!

 

[benphyr]

Welcome @Greg S !
I'll do my best to help in the small ways that I can to answer your questions. @Robert Holler or any of the long-haul and touring Cruzbikers would better answer the first two questions. People have been known to clamp the boom near the headset to the maintenance stand.

My experience is year-round all-weather (including snow/salt/dry/wet/ice in winter) approximately-15km-daily riding with several longer rides per year and some winter Zwift hour long rides, rarely anything longer. For the last question I think you do need to put on some serious miles / experience on the Cruzbike to become completely natural on it before you can switch back and forth without it feeling a bit weird for a bit. That is to get the muscle memory to lock in. However, once that is done my feel is that the major muscle groups are very similar and switching back and forth is relatively easy - Going to the Cruzbike might result in numb bum or feet if you are prone to that kind of thing and have not ridden it enough recently to be comfortable the flip side is if you take half a year off the DF the wrist, neck, back, bum get the same discomfort only you feel it much quicker on the DF (10 minutes but you can put up with it for several hours working through pain). I switch to my Rocky Mountain mountain bike for the winter with studded snow tires and for a week or so the bum and neck are not overly happy (this is with my half hour commute). Switching back to the Cruzbike in the spring has none of those issues but at around 45 minutes or an hour then I start getting a little numb bum.

All that is to say that if you are putting on many km and you have become acclimatized to the Cruzbike I think you will be perfectly happy swapping back and forth at will. @RojoRacing definitely swaps back and forth without any issues. And there are many others who can probably comment with respect to long kms more wisely than I.

Again, welcome and happy trails!

 

[RojoRacing]

S40 or V20 mount in a bike stand as if you were grabbing the top tube so you just clamp the boom in front of the steerer tube.

Keep in mind no bike climbs on its own, it's riders climb and although I've never ridden a CA2.0, I have no problem climbing anything any DF rider out there can climb. I'm kind of the leading authority when it comes to embarrassing snobby roadies when it comes to competing in the CA Sierra mountains. I use no tricks or gimiks, I just ride in the mountains a lot and everyone forgot to tell me bents can't climb before I had already proven they can.

I don't believe in bent legs as I can go back and forth without issues, I have ridden one style of bike for months at a time due to work and when I first get back on the other style it's as if I had just ridden it yesterday. If you feel you can't do this then it would lead me to believe you have yet to fully get comfortable on the S40 and just need more time. Many claim it's because of my age or that I'm an outliner but I just say it's because I don't believe there should be a difference so I feel no difference. Also, no reason you shouldn't produce just as much power to the pedals on one style bike as another given you are comfortable on both bikes.

Any duffle bag large enough to fit a mtb should work if you break down the front triangle but you shouldn't expect to really take advantage of the built-in fork mounts of the higher-end cases.

As for your comfort on the DF bike. Well with both wrist very compromised from breaking them I still log in the frequent weekend 6-9hr ride but that's only possible because I do more than half of it in the aero bars. I and everyone on the RAAM page will tell you to swap out the stock aero bar pads for CeeGee pads, do it they make a big difference.

 

[Greg S]

Fantastic replies @benphyr and @RojoRacing ! I'm especially encouraged to know that you both switch back and forth between a DF and Cruzbike as that's been my biggest concern. I'm not quite ready to give up on the DF and go all in on any recumbent but would like the flexibility to choose between them either because one or the other is better suited to the ride I'm doing or to give my hands a rest. I don't really have any preconceived limitation in my mind with respect to the Cruzbike in terms of its ability to climb or any other aspect relative to the DF and fully agree that any difference I'm experiencing between the two now is likely due to the fact that I'm not fully comfortable with it yet. That will hopefully come with more time on it.

Thanks again for the welcome and replies!

 

[jond]

Welcome. With a power meter I see similar power numbers FTP 270 280 watts and threshold power on any trike cruzbike or df. Usually two weeks if I’ve been riding one type exclusively for months. Even today if I ride rear wheel drive bent bikes then ride the vendetta it’s a few minutes of noise and confusion till I’m back.. without doubt comfortable aero equals speed over distance.

 

[Greg S]

Thanks @jond

I've been trying to post some power numbers but keep getting an error message ("the content you want to post is not allowed") but when comparing the power output on the Bacchetta and DF on a ride of similar effort (about 6/10) I see a 14% drop in weighted average power and 28% drop in max power on the Bacchetta. I'd put some of that down to drivetrain loss on the LWB Bacchetta but not all of it. I attribute the rest to not being as well acclimated to the Bacchetta.

Also, subjectively I feel like I'm using the relevant muscle groups differently based on where I get sore/tired on the Bacchetta vs. the DF.

 

[bladderhead]

I have not been on a DF for years, but I think that if you want to mix DF and 'bent your best bet is Cruzbike. These are the most DF-like 'bents, because of the triangle and because of the way they make you use your upper body.

You will get more used to it with mileage, but you may also get it better adjusted. My Silvio fits me a lot better than it used to, and I did not change the lengths of my legs or arms.

Anyway, welcome to the tribe.

 

[Doug Kline]

does anyone alternate between a DF and a Cruzbike

I have 6 bikes in the stable and regularly switch back and forth as the situation calls for. Horses for courses. I've been riding Cruzbike for 4 years and more than 2 of those years were exclusively Cruzbike, so I got quite competent on them. Once your subconscious mind knows how to ride both, you'll have no problem jumping on either bike. You may need some exclusive time on the Cruzbike to get to that point.

I have no hard, fast rules on which bike I'm going to grab, but things that factor in are how long is the ride, is it solo or with close friends, how social do I want to be with DF group rides, am I ready to tolerate some DF pain, do I have to bunny hop curbs or potholes, is there steep gravel, does the event allow recumbents, and which bike is ready to go and configured correctly, i.e. tires, gearing, cargo rack for store run, etc.

I ride my S40 more than any other bike. I can ride my V20 with a Thor seat all day until my legs stop working and it's pain free. The V20 my choice for randonneuring rides. I haven't done a 1200k, but did a 600k last year, no problem. I can't claim my S40 is pain free as my tush does start to hurt on long rides. But it is still far better than any DF.

 

[ed72]

there's very little crossover from a training point of view between a DF and a recumbent, that it takes a couple of months to gain (or lose) your "bent legs"

There have been few real studies although there are a couple, the types with washouts and crossovers. One such study showed that the supine aka recumbent riders improved riding in both the upright and supine position; however, the upright riders improved in the upright position but these cardiovascular gains did not translate into the upright position. It is more about lungs than legs in terms of FTP and more about hip angle when it comes to max. power. Whether you can get your bent FTP to equal your upright power depends on you. I got mine there. Out of curiousity, I took my upright out for a power test and it was my highest in a decade, exceeding the bent power and my former previous best upright power. Go figure.

Balor (another member here) and I thrashed this topic thoroughly over a 6-9 month period with an exhaustive review of existing literature. Suffice it to say, there are many potential reasons why RoJo's experience is not consistent with many other former DF riders. Also, few former DF riders who convert to recumbent bikes have years of power based training records upon which to compare. If you ultimately cannot ride an upright, just keep improving on the recumbent platform. I suspect you will be faster on all but the hilliest routes.

S40 should be a fine randonneuring bike, most randos will swap the seat out for a Thor but YMMV. GL

22% gradients is going to be a challenge, nobody better than RoJo to help you on that.

 

[Greg S]

I want to say thanks again for all of the thoughtful and detailed replies. I've found them both useful and encouraging. To be honest, I thought my question about switching between DF and the Cruzbike would be akin to walking in to a Ford dealership and asking about Toyotas so I'm grateful for the open minded responses I've gotten and encouraged by those who either currently switch between them or have in the past.

I'll add a few scattered thoughts to my earlier post:

• In his reply, @Doug Kline touched on one of the "either/or" considerations for riding the DF vs Cruzbike on a brevet: riding with others. Although I've done entire 1200K's solo (I find that as distances go up it's critically important to "ride your own ride" and it's tough to find someone who's completely sympatico in terms of speed, time at controls, etc), it does make the miles pass a lot more quickly if you have company. I have a friend that does brevets exclusively on a fixed gear, is a super strong rider but it's virtually impossible to ride together. The riding characteristics of a DF and fixed gear are just different e.g., I can freewheel down a descent at 45 MPH whereas he's limited by how fast he can turn his legs. I expect the same to be the case for a recumbent. I did a 200K this weekend with a friend, both of us on DF's and we discussed this while doing a climb. We agreed that were I on a fast recumbent he'd likely drop me on the climb, I'd fly past him on the descent and leave him for good on the flat. I won't know for sure whether that's true until I try it but this is a factor in whether or not I'd choose to do brevets on the Cruzbike.
• One of the things I love about where I live (except for that cold thing) is there's a vast network of quiet, reasonably paved roads. I typically head out on a ride without much of a plan for how far or where I'm going to go and let how I'm feeling, the weather, whatever else I have on for the day dictate my route. If I'm feeling peppy, I can easily add whatever distance I like and if I'm not "feeling it" I can take a shortcut for home. The thing I found on the Bacchetta was I'd often think "I'm feeling pretty good, I'll make a left and add another 20 miles. Oh, I can't, there are those two big climbs". I hated that and it quite often led me to not even starting a ride on the Bacchetta. I'll confess I never rode it exclusively enough to where I felt I was fully acclimated but I did ride it 500+ miles/month for 3 months straight including a moderately hilly 100K. I found 11% was about the limit of what I could get over. My "stall speed" on the Bacchetta was about 4 MPH and an 11% grade was about the steepest I could maintain that speed and still have a modicum of control. I expect with more focused training I could improve that and should I decide to use the Cruzbike on local brevets I'll work on that. Oh, and @ed72 22% is a challenge on the DF too!
• I like going fast (or at least fast for a slow guy) and even my randonneuring bikes are more "performance" oriented than the traditional low trail, front bag etc., rando bike. I expect that if I do use the Cruzbike for brevets it's likely I'll purchase a Vendetta. I'll add that the biggest reason I like to go faster is not to race against anybody, it's that my mantra on long brevets is "speed equals sleep, sleep equals speed". I got 7 hours stopped minimum on PBP and somewhere between 5 and 8 hours per night at LEL.
• Thanks for the seat recommendation @ed72 I've read about the Thor and as the distances I go on the Cruzbike go up I'll see how I get on with the stock seat and keep that in mind.
• As I noted, I'm do all my own mechanical work so am not daunted by the disassembly needed to pack up the Cruzbike for travel but I was hoping I could use my existing case and not have to buy another. It doesn't appear that's going to be the case but I might give my existing case a go and see how/whether I can make it work before buying something else. If anyone has been able to use the style of case where the dropouts lock into the case I'd appreciate any info on that.

Thanks again all for the thoughts. Much appreciated.

 

[ed72]

O2 kinematics are different on an upright vs recumbent position. I discovered after much trial and error that a harder warmup is needed on a recumbent vs upright when doing a TT or even a hard hill climb. And, easing more into the effort brings a higher overall performance over the duration. This study touches on this fact. Others out there show it. When any cyclist starts from a stop, the effort is almost entirely anaerobic. It takes time for the cardiovasular system to respond to the demands. The response curve varies from individual to individual; age is also a factor. How might this apply approaching rolling terrain during a brevet when the rider has just been noodling along? From my perspective, take advantage of the superior aerodynamics and gain speed coming into the hill but don't jam as hard as on an upright at least until extremely warmed up and even still, momentum is your friend on a bent.

WRT sleeping on longer rides, I suspect you will get more sleep riding a bent and you won't be as worn out. I slept four times, 16 or so hours on PBP this summer, 75 hours overall and 52 hours moving.

I have found that I can ride easier along side velomobiles and faster tandem teams than upright riders for many reasons although faster upright riders who can find that tiny draft will keep pace if I just slow down a little for them. You might find 21-23 mph is easy to maintain on the Cruz, but this is very fast for most upright rando who might prefer 16-17 mph on the flats, you will poke your eyeballs out bored at that speed. Some have said we bent riders can leapfrog uprights ahead downhill and then they can pass you going up. This absolutely did not work for me on PBP where I was constantly boxed in. I wore out a brandy new set of brake pads on that ride. For me, uprights and bents don't mix on hilly brevets although they can go together on flat ones in my experience.

Travel is a PITA with a bent.

https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1113/EP086304

 

[Greg S]

Travel is a PITA with a bent.

I always say "traveling with a bicycle is like traveling with a dead body only the bicycle is a little more useful when you get there"

 

[jond]

Apart from signature randos most of mine are attended by a dozen or so riders. No problem mixing there.

vendetta is a great fast comfy rando bike but I won’t take mine into mountainous territory. Logistics and fear to be frank. Lol. Plenty do as well as rojo.

wheelslip is heartbreaking but in reality it happens very seldom usually on pinch points when I’m tired and losing form. Also 11% and above.

at this incline point I’m on a df or rear wheel drive bent.

finally upper body input is available on the cruzbike for those pinch points but it’s limited like the df.

 

[RojoRacing]

I want to say thanks again for all of the thoughtful and detailed replies. I've found them both useful and encouraging. To be honest, I thought my question about switching between DF and the Cruzbike would be akin to walking in to a Ford dealership and asking about Toyotas so I'm grateful for the open minded responses I've gotten and encouraged by those who either currently switch between them or have in the past.

I'll add a few scattered thoughts to my earlier post:

• In his reply, @Doug Kline touched on one of the "either/or" considerations for riding the DF vs Cruzbike on a brevet: riding with others. Although I've done entire 1200K's solo (I find that as distances go up it's critically important to "ride your own ride" and it's tough to find someone who's completely sympatico in terms of speed, time at controls, etc), it does make the miles pass a lot more quickly if you have company. I have a friend that does brevets exclusively on a fixed gear, is a super strong rider but it's virtually impossible to ride together. The riding characteristics of a DF and fixed gear are just different e.g., I can freewheel down a descent at 45 MPH whereas he's limited by how fast he can turn his legs. I expect the same to be the case for a recumbent. I did a 200K this weekend with a friend, both of us on DF's and we discussed this while doing a climb. We agreed that were I on a fast recumbent he'd likely drop me on the climb, I'd fly past him on the descent and leave him for good on the flat. I won't know for sure whether that's true until I try it but this is a factor in whether or not I'd choose to do brevets on the Cruzbike.
• One of the things I love about where I live (except for that cold thing) is there's a vast network of quiet, reasonably paved roads. I typically head out on a ride without much of a plan for how far or where I'm going to go and let how I'm feeling, the weather, whatever else I have on for the day dictate my route. If I'm feeling peppy, I can easily add whatever distance I like and if I'm not "feeling it" I can take a shortcut for home. The thing I found on the Bacchetta was I'd often think "I'm feeling pretty good, I'll make a left and add another 20 miles. Oh, I can't, there are those two big climbs". I hated that and it quite often led me to not even starting a ride on the Bacchetta. I'll confess I never rode it exclusively enough to where I felt I was fully acclimated but I did ride it 500+ miles/month for 3 months straight including a moderately hilly 100K. I found 11% was about the limit of what I could get over. My "stall speed" on the Bacchetta was about 4 MPH and an 11% grade was about the steepest I could maintain that speed and still have a modicum of control. I expect with more focused training I could improve that and should I decide to use the Cruzbike on local brevets I'll work on that. Oh, and @ed72 22% is a challenge on the DF too!
• I like going fast (or at least fast for a slow guy) and even my randonneuring bikes are more "performance" oriented than the traditional low trail, front bag etc., rando bike. I expect that if I do use the Cruzbike for brevets it's likely I'll purchase a Vendetta. I'll add that the biggest reason I like to go faster is not to race against anybody, it's that my mantra on long brevets is "speed equals sleep, sleep equals speed". I got 7 hours stopped minimum on PBP and somewhere between 5 and 8 hours per night at LEL.
• Thanks for the seat recommendation @ed72 I've read about the Thor and as the distances I go on the Cruzbike go up I'll see how I get on with the stock seat and keep that in mind.
• As I noted, I'm do all my own mechanical work so am not daunted by the disassembly needed to pack up the Cruzbike for travel but I was hoping I could use my existing case and not have to buy another. It doesn't appear that's going to be the case but I might give my existing case a go and see how/whether I can make it work before buying something else. If anyone has been able to use the style of case where the dropouts lock into the case I'd appreciate any info on that.

Thanks again all for the thoughts. Much appreciated.

It’s funny how you meantion riding without a plan and wanting to add 20 miles if you feel good but opting out due to a climb involved. I totally get what you’re saying that’d be true for many DF riders as well, but for you on your DF it sounds like you’d still climb said hill.

Most riders plan there rides around what climbs they want to hit, where as I’m the literal aposite in that I build my route around what DHs and which side I’d rather descend. So when I’m 80 miles into 100 and feeling good which I normally am on the V20 I will often toss in one extra climb to get in one more fun DH. For me even though I measure my efforts by distance after the ride, before and during my only concern is how long will it take. It doesn’t matter if I’m climbing an 8% grade at 6mph or flying along at 25mph, one hour extra is one hour extra in my mind.

Reasons I pick my DF for a ride.
1. It’s a group ride with friends who want to rotate with me
2. I want to get in that pure hill climb effort and be a masochist for a quick 3hr or less ride
3. The V20 is mounted to the indoor trainer for Zwift racing.

Reasons I pick the V20
1. Ride is longer than 100 and I want to be comfortable
2. I’m riding by myself and just want to enjoy my solitude and the DHs
3. I’m riding in traffic and want to use the better mirror setup for defensive riding
4. I feel like taking KOMs and trolling on a group of riders who are too serious and don’t like my V20.

 

[Greg S]

I totally get what you’re saying that’d be true for many DF riders as well, but for you on your DF it sounds like you’d still climb said hill.

Absolutely! That's another factor in whether or not I do brevets on the Cruzbike - how well I can climb on it. I like climbing and think I'm reasonably good at it. OK, so I'm not some runty little 120 lb Columbian but I do manage to haul myself up hills reasonably well and enjoy doing it. If I were constrained e.g., to only flat brevets on the Cruzbike (or any other for that matter) it'd definitely be a consideration.

So in the scenario I painted in my previous post, if I'm out for a ride and am feeling peppy, if I'm riding the Bacchetta I don't take that turn that includes the two big climbs. Why? Because I want to ride them, not walk them (as far as I'm concerned, the only reason to walk a bike is it's broken) and 11% was about my limit. Because of that, I rode the Bacchetta less than I otherwise would - why limit myself right from the start? Part of what I really enjoy about where I live is the variety and the ability to make impromptu route decisions and if I have to decide in advance "I'm going to ride the Bacchetta so I can't go this way, or this way, or this way" it ruins it for me.

I also like descending fast (top speed ever 56 MPH) so we're definitely aligned there.

N.B. I tried to respond earlier but I'm running up against the forum spam filters ("you've exceeded the post limit of 5 in 24 hours", I've also hit the "content is forbidden" wall a few times).

 

[paco1961]

I don't see that this forum has a "general discussion" area where introductions are posted and this doesn't seem S40 specific but I'm not sure where else to post it so here goes:

Introduction

• I'm a long time cyclist (10K+miles/year for more than 30 years). I am a randonneur and do brevets up to and including Grand Randonnèes and have done PBP, LEL and a host of other 1200K+ brevets both domestic and international.
• I own a Bacchetta CA2.0, purchased 3 years ago when I was injured (back) to keep the legs spinning while I healed in the hope that I could do a 1200K in New Zealand (didn't work, ended up not going). The Bacchetta doesn't really "do it" for me and I've only ridden it either when injured or out of a sense of obligation (I'll likely sell it). I've put a grand total of about 1100 miles on it in the 3 years I've owned it.
• I'm heavily invested (both financially and emotionally) in DF bikes and have a number of bikes custom made for me.
• For reasons I've not been able to pinpoint, I started developing pain in both hands post PBP this year. I'm exploring a number of solutions (positional changes, aero bars, etc) and have purchased the S40 as one of these alternatives.
• The S40 does (kind of) "do it" for me, I've enjoyed riding it thus far. I've progressed past the "early beginner" stage (I can start/stop in a straight line, do u-turns, circles, use clipless pedals, etc) and am riding it on the roads (rural secondary roads with little to no traffic).
• I live in SW Wisconsin. It's very hilly here with gradients up to 22% and 7-11% common. It's hard to go more than 10 miles without some significant climbing so a bike (and it's rider!) need to be able to climb well. It's advertised ability as a climber is one of the things that attracted me to the Cruzbike.
• I do all my own bike work. None of my bikes have seen the inside of a bike shop, I build my own wheels.
• Oh, and I'm 65, 6'3" and 170 lbs.

OK, with intros out of the way, now to my questions (forgive the stream of consciousness, these are the smattering of things I want to know about right now):

• Is there a way to put the S40 on a maintenance stand? I have a Park PRS stand, a Feedback Sports Elite stand and a Park Team Issue stand. I also have a Hirobel (now Silca) frame clamp. I'm able to put the Bacchetta on the Park Team Issue but haven't seen an obvious way to put the S40 on any of my stands (I haven't tried much, just sort of stared at it).
• I have several travel solutions for my DF bikes including two S&S coupled bikes and a "regular" bike case (a BikeND Helium). I reached out to Maria and asked her about travel solutions for the S40 and she recommended the B&W Curve case which is essentially a box. Will the S40 go into a case similar to the BikeND (Evoc is an example) where the bike clamps to the case via the dropouts? I'd obviously rather not have to buy another case. Again, I've not tried this only stared at the bike and tried to visualize whether or not it will work.
• I realize this is probably the wrong place to ask but I'll ask anyway: does anyone alternate between a DF and a Cruzbike? I've read opinions that there's very little crossover from a training point of view between a DF and a recumbent, that it takes a couple of months to gain (or lose) your "bent legs". To clarify by an example: I could ride any one of my DF bikes exclusively for several weeks/months and jump on any of the others and go do a 1200K. It doesn't appear to me based on my experience thus far that would be possible with the Cruzbike i.e., if I wanted to do a long ride on the S40 I'd have to use it pretty close to exclusively for some period of time prior to the event. Is this true or is it possible to alternate between the S40 and a DF and then choose which one to ride based on terrain or whim? Real world experience (rather than opinion) on this would be much appreciated. Oh, and please don't suggest that I just trash my DF bikes.

That's it for now, thanks for reading!

Similar story here. My N+1 number was 7 representing mtb, gravel road, Singlespeed road and cross, all built up from frame/hub. I have been on S40 for 18 months - just finished summer #2. I tested a couple of Bacchettas (CA2 & Giro 20) but they didn’t do it for me either.

Climb - yes an S40 climbs better than the stick bikes. On climbs below 10% I’m better on the CB. Above 10% not as fast as my old Lynskey. The sweet spot for climbing on the CB is rollers. It eats them for lunch!

Stand - see pics below. I have a no name stand w traditional clamp head. I rest the CB boom in the jaws but don’t clamp in. Leave rear wheel on the floor. Works great. (Notice the 2 custom Singlespeeds hanging in the background including my custom Ti framed ss w DA track hubs and White Industries freewheel. Just can’t bring myself to sell them.)

With the exception of yep and very long climbs, all my times on the S40 beat my best Lynskey efforts.

 

[RojoRacing]

Why can’t you climb %11 on a CA2.0? Do you loose balance or do you hate going 3mph?

Another thing if you talk grade % with me is compared to 90% of cyclists on forums I always quote the sustained or average grade and not it’s short kickers. So when most people say 15% that in my book is a 8% climb with one or two bumps that peak at 15-20% for 50 feet of a 2 mile climb.

On the V20 I climb 6-8% 8-14 mile mountain roads all the time but it’s only for short moments I see over 15%. Hardest climb I’ve ever done was a 1 or 1.5 mile climb toward the end of a century that averaged 14% and even though there was only like 20 riders of like 600 ahead of me I still passed a few walking their DF. If you can get up a mountain on a 27 lb DF then you can climb on a CruzBike.

When tou get over 10% for any length of time pedaling smoothly becomes critical for maintaining traction. The stronger you are with more power in your pocket the easier it is to maintain the smooth pedal form. Every person with their choice in granny gear has their bottom range limit, you just need to feel yours out and strengthen it if you want.

 

[Greg S]

Why can’t you climb %11 on a CA2.0? Do you loose balance or do you hate going 3mph?

I can do 11%, just not more. Higher than that and I'm going so slow I can't hold a line. I can keep going but am weaving all over. I've done a peak of 15% but only a short little rise. I was all over the road but managed it.

And like you, when I talk grade I'm talking average. As I said in my intro, most of the hills around here are in the 7-11% (average) gradient with little kickers at higher grades.

On the Bacchetta traction isn't a problem but maintaining control at higher gradients is, at least for me.

 

[RojoRacing]

Something to consider then is riding the bent through the steep stuff as if you’re on wireless shifting and trying to save the batteries. Surge into the steep stuff and power through with fewer down shift then relax a bit more on the easier parts saving your legs instead of shifting to a taller gear and maintaining effort. It’s a similar method as when I race the single speed MTB and when you only have one gear and are forced to rest when your gearing tops out you quickly learn how surprising hard you can go in shorter burst multiple times as long as to recover between. If you struggle with this in the S40 then practice the same in your DF by reducing shifting and powering through by getting out of the saddle. Force yourself to continue standing longer then normal and get familiar with that feeling of lower cadence high power because that’s what’s needed to use the method above.

I used to hit over 95% HR several mins a lap during 12 hr MTB races when I raced the SS and I could always finish strong. Common logic tells going anywhere near anaerobic efforts will destroy your endurance in a ride but that’s only true for flat routes.

 

[ed72]

True that most cyclists don't realize how rare a long 15% plus climb is let alone extended pitches over 20%. Out West the roads are mostly graded to modern standards and generally average 6-8%. We have plenty of 15% climbs in New Jersey or actually all thru in the Appalachians. I know of ONLY one climb in NJ with a reasonably long 20% stretch, it is called "Fiddler's Elbow". In Wales, England, Scotland, and Ireland, 20% gradients are not all that rare. I had to stop riding with the PA rando group because the current fashion is throwing 20% gradients and loose gravel into the mix. I don't like walking.

I can only say to you Greg to hang in there. Practice balance drills. Your climbing will get better. My front derailleur failed on PBP, I did it in the big ring (53 teeth). Destroyed the RS4X rotor in the process. When I first started riding bents, such would have been absolutely unimaginable. Once again.....practice riding really, really slow. If you can bring your stall speed from 5 mph to 3.5 mph, the required comes down enormously. Did I say practice balance drills? GL.