Knowing your limits and how to better them

[RojoRacing]

Someone asked me a related question so I'm sharing here with everyone. Don't the grammar or structure of the wall o words, I just typed as things came to mind. I know I make it sound like everyone isn't trying but it's more along the lines of are you trying hard enough and in the correct way.

you have to remember how much I believe in the mental aspect of a person's ability and potential, even as much as I preach it I still surprise myself and those are valuable reminders. Do you know how I always say never assume to know what your limits are? I can't stress that one enough because it is a major factor in people's slow growth or no growth at all. I know up till now I've only ever about reached 300 watts for a full hour race effort or but the number of times I've matched that by trying to do so are almost zero. What I mean is if I try and aim for my limit I always fall short because I enter a mindset of assuming what my limit is and I want to try and just reach it. Every time I surprise myself with some exceedingly good numbers it was because I was doing everything except looking at my numbers. A month ago when I was struggling to climb the alp faster each week it was because when it got hard and I saw that my watts were 10-20 under what I wanted and my mental state started to spiral out of control. After 2 rides like that and again in the first 10 mins of the third I completely stopped looking at the time and my watts and only focused on the road ahead and what my body was telling me. When I got to the top, not only did I get back on level with my desired effort I started going harder all while it feeling more manageable. I'm very good at listening to my body and always keeping it on the limit but that limit changes every minute and you need to practice aiming at it while being extremely uncomfortable, you can't do that if you're also trying to monitor numbers, you can look at numbers afterward. That's why I also achieve my best-recorded efforts when I'm chasing someone in a race or just a really fast ride, I'm not looking at my limits and only concerned what me vs them and I'll keep pushing as hard as it takes to match them. You can't do this if you go in with the attitude that you are weaker than they are. If your thoughts are that of this is going to hurt or I'm going to get dropped, when you approach a climb then of course you are. If you see a climb and think ok attack up it and focus on the recovery after the top then you may still get dropped but I guarantee you go up faster and if you happen to be having a good day you may achieve something you previously thought impossible. This is why when I ride the V20 against DF riders of my caliber and we are going up a 2-3% grade with short 30' kickers I always tell myself to attack into it and lead over the top. If I didn't do that I'd see them pass me and I'd start doubting my ability to stay with them. I've even had cat 1 racers tell me afterward that they started to doubt their own pace and abilities for that day when I'd go past them on the steep parts because it when against everything they expected, how quickly the mind forms doubts. Did I burn a match doing such a surge? of course I did but matches are meant to be burned and depending on how you use them you can add more to the box mid-ride or one match can catch the rest of the box on fire.

moving your limits is like trying to move a heavy stone block with a rubber band. As you pull on the band it stretches and you start to feel really uncomfortable and it hurts but the stone still doesn't want to budge because it's heavy. It isn't until to really get the rubber band at its limit that the stone starts to slowly slide, only then are things changing. If you pull on the band to hard and quickly you'll break it, I think of that as going too hard and getting injured.

 

[super slim]

Someone asked me a related question so I'm sharing here with everyone. Don't the grammar or structure of the wall o words, I just typed as things came to mind. I know I make it sound like everyone isn't trying but it's more along the lines of are you trying hard enough and in the correct way.

you have to remember how much I believe in the mental aspect of a person's ability and potential, even as much as I preach it I still surprise myself and those are valuable reminders. Do you know how I always say never assume to know what your limits are? I can't stress that one enough because it is a major factor in people's slow growth or no growth at all. I know up till now I've only ever about reached 300 watts for a full hour race effort or but the number of times I've matched that by trying to do so are almost zero. What I mean is if I try and aim for my limit I always fall short because I enter a mindset of assuming what my limit is and I want to try and just reach it. Every time I surprise myself with some exceedingly good numbers it was because I was doing everything except looking at my numbers. A month ago when I was struggling to climb the alp faster each week it was because when it got hard and I saw that my watts were 10-20 under what I wanted and my mental state started to spiral out of control. After 2 rides like that and again in the first 10 mins of the third I completely stopped looking at the time and my watts and only focused on the road ahead and what my body was telling me. When I got to the top, not only did I get back on level with my desired effort I started going harder all while it feeling more manageable. I'm very good at listening to my body and always keeping it on the limit but that limit changes every minute and you need to practice aiming at it while being extremely uncomfortable, you can't do that if you're also trying to monitor numbers, you can look at numbers afterward. That's why I also achieve my best-recorded efforts when I'm chasing someone in a race or just a really fast ride, I'm not looking at my limits and only concerned what me vs them and I'll keep pushing as hard as it takes to match them. You can't do this if you go in with the attitude that you are weaker than they are. If your thoughts are that of this is going to hurt or I'm going to get dropped, when you approach a climb then of course you are. If you see a climb and think ok attack up it and focus on the recovery after the top then you may still get dropped but I guarantee you go up faster and if you happen to be having a good day you may achieve something you previously thought impossible. This is why when I ride the V20 against DF riders of my caliber and we are going up a 2-3% grade with short 30' kickers I always tell myself to attack into it and lead over the top. If I didn't do that I'd see them pass me and I'd start doubting my ability to stay with them. I've even had cat 1 racers tell me afterward that they started to doubt their own pace and abilities for that day when I'd go past them on the steep parts because it when against everything they expected, how quickly the mind forms doubts. Did I burn a match doing such a surge? of course I did but matches are meant to be burned and depending on how you use them you can add more to the box mid-ride or one match can catch the rest of the box on fire.

moving your limits is like trying to move a heavy stone block with a rubber band. As you pull on the band it stretches and you start to feel really uncomfortable and it hurts but the stone still doesn't want to budge because it's heavy. It isn't until to really get the rubber band at its limit that the stone starts to slowly slide, only then are things changing. If you pull on the band to hard and quickly you'll break it, I think of that as going too hard and getting injured.

Very good informative report on extending yourself!
How many riders at your level can read their body as well as yourself?

That's why some experienced Tour d"France riders cover their power and heart rate outputs, and let their body talk to them

 

[RojoRacing]

Very good informative report on extending yourself!
How many riders at your level can read their body as well as yourself?

That's why some experienced Tour d"France riders cover their power and heart rate outputs, and let their body talk to them

that's the trick to it, there is no way for anyone to know exactly how hard someone else is pushing. Someone much slower than me could be digging even deeper than I or someone fast than me could still have untouched potential and only those individuals have the keys to the door. All someone like myself can do is suggested there may be a door outside this box that they are in and encourage them to search for it.

Ever sprinted so long and so hard at the end of a race your legs were burning like crazy but then suddenly they went icy all while still sprinting as if your blood went for 120F to 32F in 2 seconds? It's only happened to me twice but I remember the feeling and I wonder to myself was that some kind of level beyond full gas as I know it?

 

[ed72]

I second 100% what RoJo wrote. Obviously older and much less an athlete but wanted to share a small tale. Our brains are good at tricking us to slow down

Almost 4,000 miles into TABR, two dogs took me down. By that point my legs were already shot and now one was a bit bloody and bruised from the crash. The next day had me doing two back to back brutal longish climbs (points in 15-20%) that took 270 watts to crawl at 3 mph, which was essentially a threshold event. Two 40 minute sessions back to back. Torture. But, I did it.

Someone once wrote, "Don't Buy Upgrades, Ride up Grades"

There is no faking it on a real hill. Get one with a nasty dog towards the top, if possible.

 

[Andrew Wilson]

Outstanding points. When I was racing the only 'tech' we had were HR monitors. I only used it in training and time trials, never mass start races. I know guys now that are new racers and they get all worked up over their numbers and would talk about races where they would back off because their numbers were high or low and would get all freaked out. My advice to them is to put their gps in their pocket and dont look at the data till after the race. You have to put out whatever effort is required to keep up...and hopefully, to win. Data be damned. If they would follow my advice , most won't, then they would surprise themselves on how much they could really put out.
Another thing is as you age, numbers and training plans have to change . That's what I struggle with. I still think , at 60, I can still hold the same HR for an hour that I could at 30, not so. Every few years I need to set new goals and new training plans.
That's one reason I have switched to recumbents and the Vendetta.

 

[ed72]

Outstanding points. When I was racing the only 'tech' we had were HR monitors. I only used it in training and time trials, never mass start races. I know guys now that are new racers and they get all worked up over their numbers and would talk about races where they would back off because their numbers were high or low and would get all freaked out. My advice to them is to put their gps in their pocket and dont look at the data till after the race. You have to put out whatever effort is required to keep up...and hopefully, to win. Data be damned. If they would follow my advice , most won't, then they would surprise themselves on how much they could really put out.
Another thing is as you age, numbers and training plans have to change . That's what I struggle with. I still think , at 60, I can still hold the same HR for an hour that I could at 30, not so. Every few years I need to set new goals and new training plans.
That's one reason I have switched to recumbents and the Vendetta.

I was a subscriber to an online service (not TrainingPeaks) that tells you your FTP and also lets you know your maximum power available at any moment. One day, my power meter battery crapped out on my hill climbing interval day. A hill that I have done many (hundreds?) of times. A five minute climb. All three of my maximal efforts smashed my personal best by quite a bit. I could not see what my power was not how much I had allegedly left in the tank. Not to say power meters and HRM are not useful for training, because they are. But, those once in a while maximal efforts can be hampered looking at the meters. A well known coach (JV) commented to me on FB that my FTP was higher. I ditched that software. I did some old school time trials all out....he was right. I don't do these efforts too often and have to be mentally prepared for them, but if I do, I prefer a different type of monitoring. On climbs or segments trying for a personal best, there are always a couple key points like little climbs. I'll try to maintain a certain speed over those climbs, pain in the legs be damned. I find this focus more effective than looking at power or HR. And, burning matches going into a climb on a bent is sulfur well spent. Momentum is your friend. I use it against my fellow Cat 6 upwrongs

 

[jond]

These are great points and confirm how on day improved performance is not physical at all provided you’ve done the work.

Head space is all at the pointy end of anyone’s performance irregardless of personal grade. If you’re giving maximal going for it effort and can focus on your numbers then you’re not at max.

power meters and heart rate monitors can actually hold you back. Any excuse to not throw up lunch right. But for structured training they really are a great necessity. I personally use mine to confirm my crap status but occasionally I ride liberated with no tech. Sadly it’s not on strava so it didn’t happen. For the most part they offer me comforting information. I’m a rando type.

I think it gets down to individual goals and that determination to achieve to move and improve your personal numbers. Of course turning 58 I’m happy to maintain what I have.

So for me and I suspect a lot of others cycling is mostly a solo affair unless I see someone ahead lol then it’s a race. Dam hard then to find mojo for continuous improvement.

Therefore I’m happy to lounge in my permafit state and appreciate junk miles are anything but sheer joy in blissful stagnation. Long live difference. Throwing up is for the chumps.

I try as hard as I want with my goals. To ride into my eighties on a vendetta with a beaming smile and my own teeth. And to chat with rojo that fifty something whipper snapper about his 3.5 watts/kg and his new 90kg body weight his six kids and ex wife and why he emigrated to Australia to ride home his vendetta to the Fremantle Tolhurst shrine.

I’m off to brush my teeth.