Need input for possible new Cruzbike product

[Jim Parker]

Your friends here at Cruzbike have been working on many interesting projects. One of them is an aerodynamic carbon fiber tail box designed for the Silvio and Vendetta models. The idea is a sleek and lightweight box that can hold a few essential items, including two standard water bottles or a reservoir bag. It also has mount holes for two additional water bottle cages on the sides. Cruzbike Designer Jacob Bouchard, of New York City, has made some beautiful drawings, including 3D-CAD models of the product.

Here's the problem... the few vendors we have quotes from are quoting a price well above what we'd like to see. Given the tooling and other production costs, the retail price would be approximately $600. We think that's too much. Do you agree? or would that price be acceptable? Please contact us if you know of a company that might make it for significantly less, or if you have any other suggestions.

Jim

 

[Abbott Smith]

It's a great idea but $600 is too dear for my budget.

 

[hamishbarker]

too expensive for me.

 

[jond]

sticker shock here too jim.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Jim,

I can't imagine than locating the water bottles behind the seat would be much use. How would anyone get hold of them, unless they were extremely flexible - and I think most of your customers are geriatric, aren't they? ;-)

best to find q,.
'-0

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Jim,

I think locating the water bottles behind the seat will not work unless the user was extremely flexible - and aren't most of your customers geriatric? ;-)

Best to devise some means of positioning the water bottle cages along side the rider next to the seat. If I ever get my vendetta in working order so that I can ride it, I plan to design a cage support mount to attach to the rear wheel support under the seat.

And it can and should be cheap enough so that anyone with a 3d printer can make it - or even using some lightweight angle iron. I would even bet that some current Vendetta owner has already made something to work for themselves.

Ken.

 

[Eric Winn]

Jim,

I can't imagine than locating the water bottles behind the seat would be much use. How would anyone get hold of them, unless they were extremely flexible - and I think most of your customers are geriatric, aren't they? ;-)

best to find q,.
'-0

Actually it is a lot easier to grab a bottle behind the headrest than from behind the seatback.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Great concept Jim. Way too expensive unfortunately.

Here' another possible approach to consider:

I've been running a Bent-Up Aero bag for the past three years, and I notice that a number of Vendetta riders are doing the same. Great bag. Plenty of room for everyday use. Carries two easily accessible bottles tucked away behind the riders shoulders.

If it is too expensive to manufacture your own bag, what if you manufactured a simple system for the Aero bag to be mounted to the Vendetta and Silvio. A number of people have developed their own systems. I'm sure it couldn't be too difficult to develop a standard solution at relatively low cost.

Kind regards....

 

[LMT]

On the face of it the price of $600 I think is fair when comparing this to other tail boxes made by other companies., M5 etc.

However:-

The tailbox does not look very big and I can see the volume being reduced by the two water bottles.

I'd be unsure about bolting the box to the seat tubes, the weight could lead to stress on the frame where the seat tubes are inserted and the box could rub on the rear wheel. The solution to that would be to cut a grove in the box but this would further compromise the volume.

 

[Alan Clucas]

I think it's too much for such a small bag, sorry.

 

[super slim]

I think that the Bent up Aero shape is the right size for leg, arm warmers and shoe covers ,+ 2 sandwiches + 2 water bottles on the outside below the shoulder height, and a lot cheaper.
Is it better Aero wise for the front of the bag to be nearly the width of the body?

 

[DavidCH]

What a great idea... you could put your bottles on ice. Too expensive for me. Love the concept. Can it be made more simple? The max I would want to pay for something like that is $160 tops. There needs to be a zipper pocket for easy access for the iPhone. As that's what my Topeak Munro bag gives me. I really like how the back of the box sits so close to the headrest.

The top and the bottom of the box looks roughly the same size, can they be of the same size. The top of the box has two cage inserts. I am surprised it costs so much to manufacture. The middle part could be support made from something simple like plastic that would be easy to clasp to the headrest and attach the lower and top half assemblies.

Just ideas... hope they help

 

[trplay]

I like the design but the price is beyond reasonable. I would think you could get an entire custom seat with that compartment all in one piece for this price. Another thought on your quiver would be to deepen the storage part and have a brace attach into the frame at the same place as the neck rest. BTW Reaching behind for a bottle isn't all that difficult. If you can scratch your ear you can get a bottle. Anyone who can increase their speed by mastering the sinusoidal wobble technique can learn to "reach, grab, and go" a bottle from the head rest.

 

[trplay]

I have over a thousand miles on my fabric tail box and I so far the weight is having zero effect on the frame/neckrest. I dont see this being a problem for the snazzy Quiver. My original design had a single water bottle hole like the quiver but making it became a bit complicated so I passed. What I find very useful is the mesh side pockets that allow you to put lip balm, brevet cards, candy bars, etc, where you can reach back and grab them just like the water bottle. Would be nice if the Quiver could have something like this built into it .

 

[Eric Winn]

Described MSRP - ouch!
After a wash out and it gets scraped up or broken - many very uncouth utterances along with many ouches!

Miscellaneous musings:

• Reminds me of my Topeak DynaPack DX a little bit. Topeak uses compression molded foam and coated polyester. Not as sexy (or expensive) as carbon fiber but has an expandable top to increase volume for an occasional overload and a cleverly designed quick disconnect from the mount when you don't want to use it -- or want to swap to a different option for a particular ride -- or just take the whole thing with you because it has your change of clothes for work, or your gourmet picnic lunch, or whatever. I have a DynaPack DX that I bought for my MTB and folder which sells in the $50-$100 range and weighs 720g. With the top expanded it can hold a bicycle helmet. Sweet interior features to separate and/or restrain payload contents. However, note the range of other sizes and features: http://www.topeak.com/products/FoamShell Bags
• I would prefer having a quick disconnect mechanism for the bag mount so you can leave the bag at home if you want or switch to something else as desired. Or carry the aforementioned gourmet lunch.
• In your design I would want at a minimum two lids - one to carry water bottles as shown, another without the water bottle carry openings. Perhaps a third that makes the whole shebang taller - adding more volume.
• Carbon fiber or aluminum frame with lycra or ballistic bag inserts - you could offer different colors and features to fit a common carrier frame. Again with some sort of clever quick disconnect. Basically a refined and enhanced "Quiver" or "Windshadow" rack. Also KISS....
• I would consider the technology environment - various gizmos that need electricity and/or protection from the elements. A clever slot with a lightning connector in the bottom leading to an external battery within the bag for my iPhone paired with RFLKT+ and both shielded from the weather and crashes and able to grab and remove/replace using one hand while riding. Or just a pouch system to hold various battery shapes which allows for a lead to whatever needs powering - and some elegant solution for ugly wires dangling around.
• A rock solid light mount on the back is a must. You must be able to mount a light and adjust it's position to suit and then it needs to stay in that position despite my crappy road conditions trying to bounce it off or out of alignment. Also think video camera in lieu of or in addition to a light. Also note the point above about batteries...
• Your design leaves me wondering how the headrest padding and cover will be mounted and removed for cleaning and/or replacing - along with helmet to bottle interference... My forward bottle sits about a half inch or more further back from the end of the headrest frame.
• I carry a roughly 9 inch long Topeak Pocket hand pump in between my Windshadow rack bottom frame rails.
• Internal mesh pockets or dividers or some sort of restraint system for various bits of your payload to keep things from shifting around - especially with that water bottle top when grabbing and replacing a water bottle while riding...

A bag with many of the above that included a nice video camera for $600 would work for me...

-Eric

 

[trplay]

Boy three posts in a row. You can tell I like this topic! I assume the two vents in the rear is to allow drainage from the rain? If not you will need a way for rainwater to pass through the quivers water bottle holes. Also tapering the edges of the water bottle holes will make it easier and faster to re-insert the bottles on the fly.

 

[Eric Winn]

I have over a thousand miles

Heh, Maria has well over 3,000 miles on hers.

 

[ratz]

First thing; I love the idea behind this; and can see the elegance just from the drawing.

My guess is the carbon fiber is the cost driver; sexy but always expensive. We all know that CF is the difference between an $80 bottle cage and a $8 dollar on. Finding the right fab place would be key to getting a CF version. I wonder what an all plastic molded version would cost to make??

Eric and Moose have most of the salient ideas laid down.

My Clarifying thoughts for my mind:

For the cost conscious crowd.

1. Brain box and BentUp Cycle bag have been using foam and ballistic fabric for years and have solid design; build upon that concept
2. Take the design as is and make it a metal frame; wrapped in water proof fabric and foam and plastic inserts to shape it.
3. Make it clamp onto the existing headrest poles with ease
4. focus on function over form; eric's post covering all the modern needs for electronic and clothes is spot on. fifty awesome designed internal compartments trumps Carbon fiber.

For the $$ crowd

1. Design a custom seat with the box integrate into the seat.

The thought the always lingers in my mind:

1. Yes CB loves their current seat design. Nothing wrong with being there psychologically
2. Rick's adaption of the Volae seat is from all accounts an equally good setup perhaps advantageous
3. Consider letting go of the legacy seat and making the industry standard one work so that other people can solve the problems of things like bags and accessories.

 

[1happyreader]

Wow,,,, what a beautiful sexy box .
It might be the perfect item to draw sales to a $300 priced alternative.
Like what the SL roadster does for Mercedes.
Can't see sales ever being a big payday.

 

[Happyrider]

$600 seems steep, but $300 (maybe even $400) certainly seems reasonable for a carbon fibre tailbox on a $4500 bike. I would be surprised if it could be sold less expensive in the limited volumes it would undoubtedly attract. What production volumes were you pricing? What are the dimensions of the tailbox? Or volume? With that info I can run its production by someone who does a lot of custom work with carbon fibre. Judging from the drawing, it looks like it could be wider in the front and still be sheltered by the rider's shoulders. If so, it might make sense to place the two bottles side-by-side just behind the rider's back and have them angled in a V formation at perhaps 70 degrees from horizontal. It seems like this would make them easier to reach on the fly. Then the bottles could be held in a non-opening part of the top, with the opening part hinged just behind.