Planning Ahead

[John Tolhurst]

We have to plan ahead in this design and production game. So thoughts about where Silvio is going are highly relevant. Here are my short list of improvements for the next production run:

1) Stem to take 31.8 bars.
2) A range of small redesigns to bits and pieces
3) Solution for use of a triple for shorter riders

and I'm considering
4) cutting a channel in the seat back to open up the inside of the seat tube for housing a pump, tube, etc.

We won't see these in production for a good while but a little discussion doesn't hurt. What did I miss? What would Silvio owners or prospective owners like to see done in future?

 

[MrSteve]

I'm designing -in my head- a ventilated seatback.
A few grams would be added due to the ram air intake;
a few grams would be recouped due to the channels moulded in the back.
Cool, eh?
(All puns intended.)

-Steve

 

[Mark B]

Definitely I would like to see more places to put stuff. It would be cool if the seat back were more receptive to a hydration system. Or, a hydration system could be adapted to it... I dislike bottles to no end.

Mark

 

[kling]

Hi John,

It is very well sorted already- however, a mounting point for a D-lock would be great (perhaps at the back of the seat ?)- having to carry it round in my pannier bag.
Haven't figured out how to secure it to the rack.

Quote: JT: We have to plan ahead in this design and production game. So thoughts about where Silvio is going are highly relevant. Here are my short list of improvements for the next production run:

Ventilated seat back sounds cool, as does storage spaces.

cheers
Kendrick

 

[Doug Burton]

Re: Planning Ahead - Hydration

Mark B wrote: Definitely I would like to see more places to put stuff. It would be cool if the seat back were more receptive to a hydration system. Or, a hydration system could be adapted to it... I dislike bottles to no end.

Mark

Mark, I'm working an a variation on a "fanny pack" to hold a hydration bladder under the seat pan. you could also use one on either side or both. This would clear the seat back for other stuff or bittles if desired.

Doug

 

[Mark B]

Re: Planning Ahead - Hydration

Hardtailcruzer wrote:

Mark B wrote: Definitely I would like to see more places to put stuff. It would be cool if the seat back were more receptive to a hydration system. Or, a hydration system could be adapted to it... I dislike bottles to no end.

Mark

Mark, I'm working an a variation on a "fanny pack" to hold a hydration bladder under the seat pan. you could also use one on either side or both. This would clear the seat back for other stuff or bittles if desired.

Doug

Doug,

My first thought would be how long the hose from the hydration pack to the mouth would be. This water gets hot and is undrinkable on a summer day. The shorter, the better. If I was to design something, it would be an "H" shaped affair that would straddle the seat rib. It would actually look like a pair of lungs. But, as far as adapting something... I'm not there yet.

Mark

 

[Kamatu]

Re: Planning Ahead - Hydration

Mark B wrote:

Hardtailcruzer wrote:

Mark B wrote: Definitely I would like to see more places to put stuff. It would be cool if the seat back were more receptive to a hydration system. Or, a hydration system could be adapted to it... I dislike bottles to no end.

Mark

Mark, I'm working an a variation on a "fanny pack" to hold a hydration bladder under the seat pan. you could also use one on either side or both. This would clear the seat back for other stuff or bittles if desired.

Doug

Doug,

My first thought would be how long the hose from the hydration pack to the mouth would be. This water gets hot and is undrinkable on a summer day. The shorter, the better. If I was to design something, it would be an "H" shaped affair that would straddle the seat rib. It would actually look like a pair of lungs. But, as far as adapting something... I'm not there yet.

Mark

You guys are thinking too hard.

http://www.getsilly.com/drinkbeerhat.html

 

[Rick Harker]

Hi John,

I'm not sure of cooler climate riders but from my early experiences so far I would like to invite suggestions towards greater seat ventilation. Particularly for the back.
The downside of cut-outs in the back rest would be those who get caught out in the rain. Different clothing may help there also.
Waist packs (bum bags-AUS, fanny packs-US) are great for me on uprights but on the Cruzbikes are a little awkward. But some adaption that could slip over the seat back (such as Jim Parker displayed) would be practical.
As for hydration... there is a nice little cafe along the beach front at Saint Kilda. Beautiful creamy latte with a piece of freshly baked pastries, mmm! Beats bottles and bags any day.

Regards,

Thirsty Rick.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Mark B wrote: Definitely I would like to see more places to put stuff. It would be cool if the seat back were more receptive to a hydration system. Or, a hydration system could be adapted to it... I dislike bottles to no end.

Mark

There are bags for bikes such as Silvio which require a long skinny bag on each side behind the seat, developed for the Baron and other low racers. These deserve investigation. http://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/recumbentbags/allfa_side_panniers.php I thought I saw some smaller ones somewhere, anyone?

A long tube can be insulated with hot water pipe lagging. I've seen it in white which looks a little nerdy, but it does work.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote: A long tube can be insulated with hot water pipe lagging. I've seen it in white which looks a little nerdy, but it does work.

White and nerdy? http://youtube.com/watch?v=XbVtbc_XzrI

 

[Hotdog]

johntolhurst wrote:
There are bags for bikes such as Silvio which require a long skinny bag on each side behind the seat, developed for the Baron and other low racers. These deserve investigation. http://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/recumbentbags/allfa_side_panniers.php I thought I saw some smaller ones somewhere, anyone?

Perhaps you're thinking of the Radical Design Solo Racer than defjack has tried. Seems close to ideal for the Silvio, it positions the load entirely behind the rider (out of the slipstream) and fits either side of the seat support, wheel and stay.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Thanks JonB. I got a nice laugh out of that. Important insight there for us where the clip says "I ride on a segway but they say I'm too white and nerdy". This is precisely why the segway is a dud of a device. Could James Dean be pictured being cool on one? No!! And this why recumbents fail for many. For many, you just can't look cool on them. It is very hard to make them look cool. I am doing the best I can, I have removed the long slack swinging chain, I got rid of the silly oddball wheel out front and I put the body in the middle between the wheels. I also redesigned the seat to remove any connotation of a deck chair on the front lawn. I reused a mtb frame design that had become well known on regular 'cool' bikes (but maybe a whole new frame would have been more cool). I re-engaged the upper body, so that you can demonstrate some body language during the ride, nothing like busy legs and slack body to make you look nerdy. I've refused to build a trike, its just too hard to make and extra wheel look cool. :shock: I've done everything I can think of to make them cool, and less white and nerdy. :geek:

The white I meant was the color of the insulation lagging.

So, is there anything else that could be done to make the Silvio less "white and nerdy"? :?:

 

[JonB]

I think adding a box to the silvio makes it look nerdy. Without it just looks so clean, so elegant, it screams "driving machine".

 

[Mark B]

Personally, I think hydration system would be my biggest concern. The radical bags like Jack has would be fine for commuting, or credit card touring. I wouldn't want them on there for an every day club ride, but that's just me. I would like to see some sort of hydration system that mounts cleanly on the seat back, easy on and off, or at least easy fill, with a hose that reaches underneath the arm pit and clips to the jersey. The system must be insulated. If you start out with ice cold water in the morning, it should at least still be cool in the afternoon. I find with a system like this, I drink more and can ride longer than fussing with water bottles.

Mark

 

[cycleguy]

Hi John

I think you got the "nerdiness" out of recumbents... ONly issues is when you say "recumbent" people are not thinking of a Silvio! Yet! For me it was that long chain that was a turn off for regular recumbents, I just knew that was a bad design.

Your design, is very cool, but people just need to see more of it. I'ts innovative... another example of such an innovative design is the Wii Game console. All the other game consoles are just the original "Pong" game with better graphics. But the Wii is taking off because of the motion sensing paddles.. thats different, thats Innovative. Your design also changes the direction of bikes, which also have not changed radically at all in decades. And I am not thinking of going from steel to carbon fiber as innovative, its still the same ergonomics. Silvio changes that most important bike characteristic drastically.

Harold

johntolhurst wrote: Thanks JonB. I got a nice laugh out of that. Important insight there for us where the clip says "I ride on a segway but they say I'm too white and nerdy". This is precisely why the segway is a dud of a device. Could James Dean be pictured being cool on one? No!! And this why recumbents fail for many. For many, you just can't look cool on them. It is very hard to make them look cool. I am doing the best I can, I have removed the long slack swinging chain, I got rid of the silly oddball wheel out front and I put the body in the middle between the wheels. I also redesigned the seat to remove any connotation of a deck chair on the front lawn. I reused a mtb frame design that had become well known on regular 'cool' bikes (but maybe a whole new frame would have been more cool). I re-engaged the upper body, so that you can demonstrate some body language during the ride, nothing like busy legs and slack body to make you look nerdy. I've refused to build a trike, its just too hard to make and extra wheel look cool. :shock: I've done everything I can think of to make them cool, and less white and nerdy. :geek:

 

[Mark B]

cycleguy wrote: Hi John

I think you got the "nerdiness" out of recumbents... ONly issues is when you say "recumbent" people are not thinking of a Silvio! Yet!

Harold,

My thoughts exactly, except I will say there are a lot of bent riders waiting anxiously to see what Bryan Ball has to say about the Silvio. I wasn't willing to wait. I figured out from riding my heavy conversion that this design is HOT! Already having a roadbike with decent quality components hanging in my garage was another influence. I think most of us probably have that upright hanging around, "just in case" we decide to ride wedgie again.

My idea of planning ahead? Go full tilt boogie and get a carbon fiber model in the works. The ergonomics of the design is beautiful as is. The only downside, if there is a downside, is there are sub 20 pound recumbents now and that's going to be important to some of those people, no matter what. They'll pay for it, too. So, let's dream up something that looks like a hybrid Silvio/VeloKraft, the SilvioCraft!

Mark

 

[Nanda H.]

I had hopes for this RANS Z-bag but test fit it today and it sits on the rear tires when fully installed
http://www.shoprans.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BPAC0052%2D53

Tomorrow I will try and fit on of these frame packs up in the front triangle:
http://www.shoprans.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BPAC0101

It has a fair amount of volume for all the essentials, and a divide in the center so your cell and keys can be separated in either the left or right compartment.

There might be a place for one or a pair of these:

...like ultra thin aero panniers :roll:

 

[Kamatu]

johntolhurst wrote: So, is there anything else that could be done to make the Silvio less "white and nerdy"? :?:

A carbon fiber ultralight racing build and some people to push them in races and win. Might be the next step if any of the current and (hopefully) BROL inspired crop of Silvio owners get into some of the racing and start winning. Even amateur events would be good or time trials. Sorry, I don't know the bike/HPV racing world real well, but wins on Cruzbikes will put paid to "white and nerdy".

Otherwise, the Silvio is sexy as she sits.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Hotdog wrote:

johntolhurst wrote:
There are bags for bikes such as Silvio which require a long skinny bag on each side behind the seat, developed for the Baron and other low racers. These deserve investigation. http://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/recumbentbags/allfa_side_panniers.php I thought I saw some smaller ones somewhere, anyone?

Perhaps you're thinking of the Radical Design Solo Racer than defjack has tried. Seems close to ideal for the Silvio, it positions the load entirely behind the rider (out of the slipstream) and fits either side of the seat support, wheel and stay.

Yes, like those, but I thought I saw bags like a pair of sausages about 6" diameter and 15 to 18" long that went either side, and you could put a bladder in one or both. Thet need a fixing system so they stay in tight.

 

[Mark B]

johntolhurst wrote:

Hotdog wrote:

johntolhurst wrote:
There are bags for bikes such as Silvio which require a long skinny bag on each side behind the seat, developed for the Baron and other low racers. These deserve investigation. http://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/recumbentbags/allfa_side_panniers.php I thought I saw some smaller ones somewhere, anyone?

Perhaps you're thinking of the Radical Design Solo Racer than defjack has tried. Seems close to ideal for the Silvio, it positions the load entirely behind the rider (out of the slipstream) and fits either side of the seat support, wheel and stay.

Yes, like those, but I thought I saw bags like a pair of sausages about 6" diameter and 15 to 18" long that went either side, and you could put a bladder in one or both. Thet need a fixing system so they stay in tight.

I think it's the same bag, different size. I believe that's what Jack said; his are the large size.

 

[Hotdog]

johntolhurst wrote:
Yes, like those, but I thought I saw bags like a pair of sausages about 6" diameter and 15 to 18" long that went either side, and you could put a bladder in one or both. Thet need a fixing system so they stay in tight.

Ah, OK, sounds like the FastBack System hydration packs, specifically the Double Century. I've got one on my Bacchetta for carrying water, tools, spare tubes and so on.