Planning for Vendetta - Basic Questions

[ratz]

Sorry this will probably be mundane and indulgent.....

I have finally made the decision to invest in a Vendetta, assuming the bike will have me

I crashed out my DF several year ago resulting a next injury that precludes safe riding head-first even if I could stomach the neck pain. A long slow journey back via a Trike has my strength back to the point that two wheels are back in my future. I have done all the basic research on my options and the and V seems to be where I want to go.

So before I get in the queue of people ordering......

I am still reading up on the bike configuration and required components etc....

This is an exploritory post to help create my savings plan for the purchase of a Vendetta. I could go with a full configuration delivered, but could get the bike sooner if some recycling of components works out for me.

While all my high stuff was all trashed in the crash; I do have a custom Trek 7.7FX gathering dust, it is pre-carbon so has no real resale value versus the original cost. That was my rainy day cross trainer. I cannot ride it any more other than to pull the kids in a trailer at 3 mph. So I was thinking of pulling parts from it for the Vendetta and then upgrading those parts over-time.

What I have available and need to check compatibilty would be as follows:

1) Bontrager Race Lite Wheel Set
The non drive wheel is center bead with series 6600 blade spokes radially laced with zero cross.
The Drive Wheel is an Offset Bead with 6600 spokes radially laced in pairs left/right 2 cross. (Basically a "pretty 2 cross")

2) Rear Cassette and Derailer are 10 speed Shimano Ultegra

3) Crank Set
Shimano 105 Road Triple and Front Derailer; low end but serviceable; (I bent the Ultegra set ooops)

4) BB is 1.37x24 Road standard Shimano

5) Stuff that probably would not fit the V would be the Avid Brake levels and the Shimano 10speed trigger shifts

Everything is sub 1000 miles because it was indeed a rain trainer.

I am a short 5'10" with an x-seam of 38-39 so I am probably a candidate for a medium frame with a sawed off boom similar to what Eric did in his thread. I have a feeling I will turn to be just a tade too big for the small frame. Bull horn steering will be to goal because of the neck issue; no pain with the arms is that position.

The plan would to start with
new: frame, bullhorns, shifters, brakes;
recycled: wheels, cranks, bb, cassette and derailer;
upgrade order: drive train to SRAM Force or RED, a wheel set worther of the bike.

So the question is any of that equipment going to work or am I out of luck? Long term I am eyeing about 2-3k for the drive train and wheels and if I can defer that cost without having to buy "temp" parts that will later be discarded then I get to shave some serious time off the savings plan

 

[Eric Winn]

Keep in mind the Vendetta

Keep in mind the Vendetta bullhorn option includes shifters and brake levers: http://cruzbike.com/bullhorn-bars-vendetta

I'm no authority but I think your wheels, BB, cassette, and derailleurs should work - confirm with Doug. Also check with him about modifying the small chainring on your triple to be able to fit over the BB chainstay clamps.

You will likely need some extra chain. I would check with Cruzbike sales to see if they have some extra matching links to whatever you have now. Generally a typical 116 link chain will not be long enough so plan for two chains or one plus some extra links.

If you need to trim the slider, do it in stages - trim a small amount, check fit, if needed trim a little more, check fit, etc. I have found that once I got everything adjusted and I had been riding a bit I seem to be at a bit longer than what my x-seam is. In other words be careful not to trim too much!

Don't shove the slider all the way into the boom!

You will likely need longer brake and derailleur housing and possibly related cable.

Do you have any neck pain or other neck issues when reclined to 20 degrees? If you do, it would be prudent to try to find one you could try before proceeding. Where are you located?

-Eric

 

[ratz]

Good news about the bullhorn option

Eric,

I did not catch that on the bullhorn kit so +1 on that front thanks for noting that. Chains should not a a problem I have a CatTrike700 so I have ummm a fair amount of chain on hand The triple is only has a granny of a 30T but I will be sure to query about that.

As for the slider I do not think anyone that read your thread will shoving that in any time soon. I was pain full enough to read, recreating the experience is not on my list.

The neck injury is a C1/C2 fracture that will never heal. Fork failure on a DF 3 years ago. Story is over at http://mylifeinrecline.com/high-risk/ (yes the Web site need attention; do not have kids 4 and 5 in your 40's if you want free time....)

Anyways, for me head-first nose down I get splitting head ache. Nose up, head back I do just great. The Doc says if I ride feat first and reclined my risk is about the same as any other biker if I crash. Ride head first and any over the handle bar flip would be 40/60 survival I landed on the back of my neck again. So I ride feet first now. The challenge for me has been to get the nerve up to get higher off the ground. Now that I will comfortably do 40+ mph descents on the CT700 I am ready.

I am? over in Minneapolis, but will be going to the Hostel shop ralley unless the? wife vetos me. I have not? seen any Vendetta's around here yet. My CT700 is modifed with 20in front wheels so I am at 22 degrees now. The appeal of the V is that it is in a similar recline, has a big front wheel that isn't likely flip me on a pot hole; and it is FWD which should reduce vibration in the area of my neck. I am sure I can learn to ride a MBB like anything else it is gonna be a new challenge. On and I like to go fast Pretty much I have been eyeing the bike since it was announced.

 

[Eric Winn]

Bob, the issue with a triple

Bob, the issue with a triple fitting over the BB chainstay clamps was covered really well by fthills starting here:

http://cruzbike.com/vendetta-unboxing-and-build#comment-16937

And especially here:

http://cruzbike.com/vendetta-unboxing-and-build#comment-17023

Interesting read about your neck injury.

-Eric

 

[John Tolhurst]

We are using air cushions on

We are using air cushions on the V headrest on Maria's bike, to reduce vibration. I am testing a full set of air cushions at present.

In the Silvio or Vendetta packaging you will find two small air filled plastic bags. These are included in case any one would like experience air cushioning on the headrest. These are not intended to be durable and will not be replaced for you when they become flat. They cost very little, so I thought I'd have them included and allow us to hear various opinions.

 

[ratz]

Good Catch on the triple - Anyone tried the SRAM WiFLi 11-32

Eric,

Thanks for the catch on the triple the 105 would have needed a shave to fit. I do have and older Truvativ Elita triple with GPX that I dug out of storage. It looks like it will work without modification and that is about the same grade as a 105 maybe a hair better. So that will be the fall back plan.

My big concern has been climbing steep stuff. Living in the river valley we get to climb a lot get out of town and to get back in
1500ft for anything 10 miles+. But you gave pause to think; and consider that I am paranoid of the climbs because of having to haul a 45lbs trike up those hills with my Nuvinci and Moutain Drive. On a DF I could climb most hills here on a 39/27 and just a few hills forcing me down to the 30T granny to avoid anerobic heart failure. This was before the compact double got popular. So perhaps at 50/34 with 11/28 is really all I need; even in the recumbent position.

Has anyone tried the SRAM Force with their WiFLi 11-32 cassette I think I would be willing to lose the 16T to pick up the the 32 on the low end.?

Time to get in the planning spreadsheet, the gear calculator out and see if the compact double or the tubeless A23 wheels are more important and Time to stalk ebay for used groupos or last years models.

 

[ratz]

Air Cushions

John:

That is exactly the kind thinking that is drawing me to you engineering. Something simple like that could turn our to be worth every penny to stay supplied in them for someone like me. The ever rising popularity of chip seal in this area is driving me to consider the high expense upgrade of tubeless rims. So a low cost disposable item that reduces vibrations seems perfectly reasonable if it turns out the work.

 

[Eric Winn]

My Vendetta 2.0 53x39 with

My Vendetta 2.0 53x39 with 11-36 on Mike Sherman's calculator. I use the SRAM X9 TYPE 2 RD to get the 36T.

-Eric

 

[ratz]

X9 Cage Length

Which cage length; the build thread does not say? So you mixed a road crankset and a mtb cassette and derailer. It all fits and shifts smooth?

 

[Eric Winn]

My RD is a medium cage. I

My RD is a medium cage. I mentioned the cage size here along with a gotcha when combining SRAM Road brifters with an MTB RD.

Per SRAM:

• Short for DH
• Medium for 2x10
• Long for 3x10

Shifts well but a bit tricky to get setup - you really need the cable adjuster. The cage lock and roller bearing clutch are really nice features. That cage lock is especially nice for dealing with taking the front wheel off and putting it back on as that process is pretty fiddly.

See: http://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/type2


alt="SRAM X9 TYPE 2"

alt="SRAM X9 TYPE 2 RD package label"

-Eric

 

[Charles.Plager]

That would be long cage.  The

That would be long cage medium cage(and that's the second time I got that wrong). The SRAM 9 speed road and MTB are compatible; likewise with the 10 speed (but you can't mix 9 speed shifters with 10 speed derailleur, etc). There are similar matchups for Shimano, but I think you have to be a bit more careful...

 

[ratz]

narrowing in on a design

Ok thanks for the help and indulgence I think I have settled in on a plan. Obviously this bike is going to be at its best without recycled parts. So I will go with the long game .....Time to work on the wife...

Heres' the details of what I am thinking in case it helps someone else.

Pre-configured stuff:

1. Frame Kit Vendetta TT
2. Aero 67s Wheels (too good a deal to pass on)
3. Bullhorn upgrade (wish there were more detailed pictures, but I found enough to believe that would be my preference far and away.) This upgrade seems well thought out like the bike itself.

Source individually to save on unused parts and get 28" - 119'" gear inches

1. SRAM Force WiFLi Derailleur
2. SRAM PG 1070 (11-32) WiFLi Cassette
3. SRAM Force Braze-On Front Derauilleur
4. SRAM Rival compact GXP Crankset 165mm (50/34)
5. SRAM Force Brake Set
6. SRAM 1091R PowerChain ((love that chain))
7. Tires, Tube, Cable hosing, Lube and Tape
8. Miscellaneous costs to test the wife's patience.

Did I miss anything? Chocolate for the assembly crew?


Futures:

1. 52/36 Powerglide rings or QRings if gearing is too low; shifts gearing to 29.5"-124" on the high end and spreads out the rpm range more nicely
2. A23 custom wheels with Chris King Ceramics in Yellow For Tubeless running.
3. Possible custom crankset with 155mm arms, preferred length for me on other recumbents not sure how that will translated to MBB
4. Power tap hub to see how sadly slow I really am.

That seems to have very little waste in it. The SRAM Force Assembly pack seems like a great deal, but that would have wasted double tap brifters that would not be used with bull horns and the smaller range cassette. So ditching the price of the brifters that allows for the WiFLi upgrade for just slightly less cost, if sourced carefully. $850 street; perhaps that is configuration cruzebikes can supply, but obviously they cannot configure everything and continue to innovate. I like the X9 solution; but this would be enough gearing for my needs and it turned out to be $150 cheaper which justifies the wheels (and .5 lb lighter so I can eat that chocolate).

Thanks for the help folks. Now the waiting and saving game begins. Hopefully there will be Vendetta at the Midwest Recumbent rally to fawn over in the mean time.

Unanswered for the future: What color spokes; hubs; and nipples will lock best with yellow Vendedatta.... hmmm sounds like time to fire up photo shop.

 

[Eric Winn]

I just received my new Stages

I just received my new Stages Power Meter (SRAM Rival 170mm). See DC Rainmaker's updated review for more info.

I'll do a separate post about it once I get it installed and try it out but thought I'd mention it here as an option for Bob to consider for #4 above.

-Eric

 

[ratz]

Stage double take.

Ohhhhh that is a nice improvement. I had read the original review but never doubled back to read the new on. I get respectible data from my PowerCal. I had written the Stages off as no better than the powercal perviously. You are already on my wife's short list for you build thread getting in my head and accelerating my plans. We will not tell her about this one.

 

[KiwiGuy]

Thanks Eric

Eric, thanks for posting the link to DC Rainmaker's updated review of the Stages power meter. Incredibly useful.

I'd also read the original review and has dismissed it as an option in the near future. Changed my mind. I'm impressed with how fast the Stages team is improving the product.

The Stages pm is clearly a game changer. I look forward to your post once you get a chance to do some testing with it.

Kind regards...

 

[ratz]

BullHorn 11 speed compatible?

So I am in the process quoting parts and I find a good deal on a SRAM Force22 Groupset if I can wait.....

So the question is will the Bullhorn bar end shifters handle an 11 speed; or will the SRAM R2C Aero Bar End Shifters (11speed)? work with the cable routing. I know the docs call the Cruzbike shifters "Special" but it does not really say what is special about them that might pose compatibility problems.

For the curious the Groupset (which is far too nice for me) is:

SRAM Force 22 - Cranks GXP 165mm Arm 52/36 rings
SRAM Force 22 Braze-On Front Derailleur
SRAM Force 22 Cassette 11-32 WiFLi
SRAM Force 22 Rear Derailleur WiFLi
SRAM Force Mechanical Brakes Front+Rear
SRAM R2C Aero Bar End Shifters (11speed)
SRAM Force 22 BB GXP

 

[John Tolhurst]

Okay, what is special about

Okay, what is special about the Cruzbike barend shifters is that the cable route to the shifter is inside the bar, and is therefore completely concealed and does not alter the roundness of the bar the way that an external cable alongside the bar does. This is important on the Vendetta because the arms are essentially pulling on the bar, and that cable rides under the finger joints - its like carrying a heavy weight in a plastic bag, the finger joints don't like it. So ...... redesigned bar end shifters it is.

They are 10 speed, very light, and they are Shimano compatible.