paulbostick
Member
Anyone having pain in neck and shoulder from Silvio 2.0. I have a soft rider and no problem on it but the Silvio has caused almost immediate pain. Any help please post love the bike just won't comfort.
Silvia 2.0 causing neck and shoulder tensionaana
- Thread starter paulbostick
- Start date
Jeremy S
Dude
Paul, my guess is that you
Paul, my guess is that you aren't relaxing against the headrest because you're still used to your more upright Sofrider position. I made the same transition and it's taking me some time to get used to this, I have to consciously remind myself to lie back on the seat and headrest. If this is the case for you, then just telling yourself to relax against the headrest, and giving yourself more time to adapt, may help.
Of course you can try adjusting the headrest position. Since the adjustment is along the axis of the seat back, which is mostly horizontal, it seems to end up being more of a torso length adjustment than a head height adjustment. Sliding the headrest down toward the seat may raise up your head. Or you could try adding some more padding to the headrest (or something stiff underneath the stock padding) to raise your head.
Paul, my guess is that you aren't relaxing against the headrest because you're still used to your more upright Sofrider position. I made the same transition and it's taking me some time to get used to this, I have to consciously remind myself to lie back on the seat and headrest. If this is the case for you, then just telling yourself to relax against the headrest, and giving yourself more time to adapt, may help.
Of course you can try adjusting the headrest position. Since the adjustment is along the axis of the seat back, which is mostly horizontal, it seems to end up being more of a torso length adjustment than a head height adjustment. Sliding the headrest down toward the seat may raise up your head. Or you could try adding some more padding to the headrest (or something stiff underneath the stock padding) to raise your head.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Quite possibly your
Quite possibly your handlebars are too far forward, preventing your shoulders from being where they'd like to be. On 2.0, because the body is laying back further, the bars are not positioned the same over the fork, they are further back too.
Quite possibly your handlebars are too far forward, preventing your shoulders from being where they'd like to be. On 2.0, because the body is laying back further, the bars are not positioned the same over the fork, they are further back too.
noahvale
Member
I just took my first ride on
I just took my first ride on my Silvio and immediately noticed that the headrest needed to go back more. I'm used to my Bacchetta high racer with a headrest and about the same seat recline. I lay back completely relaxed on it, and will on the Silvio as soon as I get it adjusted.
One thing I noticed was that the handlebars need to come back a bit so that my arms would be bent a little. That will also help with laying back more. Like every bike, fit is everything.
I just took my first ride on my Silvio and immediately noticed that the headrest needed to go back more. I'm used to my Bacchetta high racer with a headrest and about the same seat recline. I lay back completely relaxed on it, and will on the Silvio as soon as I get it adjusted.
One thing I noticed was that the handlebars need to come back a bit so that my arms would be bent a little. That will also help with laying back more. Like every bike, fit is everything.
Eric Winn
Zen MBB Master
You might also want to take a
You might also want to take a look at this Head/Neckrest thread on BROL. The Silvio and Vendetta headrests don't quite work the way being discussed in regards to the headrest frame flexing.
Instead, you can achieve some of the same effect with different types of padding and making sure the padded portion hits the right spot by adjusting the depth the headrest frame is inserted into the bike frame.
Note the stock headrest padding is like the seat padding - a base layer of closed cell foam that is denser and less compressible covered by a layer of very compressible "open cell" padding. There is also John's Vendetta skunkworks effort with air padding.
But yes, correct fit is critical to getting this working right. I've probably played with headrest position and padding more than anything else on my Vendetta to find the sweet spot for my body.
-Eric
You might also want to take a look at this Head/Neckrest thread on BROL. The Silvio and Vendetta headrests don't quite work the way being discussed in regards to the headrest frame flexing.
Instead, you can achieve some of the same effect with different types of padding and making sure the padded portion hits the right spot by adjusting the depth the headrest frame is inserted into the bike frame.
Note the stock headrest padding is like the seat padding - a base layer of closed cell foam that is denser and less compressible covered by a layer of very compressible "open cell" padding. There is also John's Vendetta skunkworks effort with air padding.
But yes, correct fit is critical to getting this working right. I've probably played with headrest position and padding more than anything else on my Vendetta to find the sweet spot for my body.
-Eric
Tuloose
Guru
Love the bike, do not like the position.
I find the seat recline on the new Silvio to be too extreme for my tastes.
I feel like a sausage laid out on a grill and find myself peering through the bottom lens of my bifocals to look at the road in front of me.
I thought I would give the bike a week or so of use and that maybe I would become accustomed to this new position - my other recumbents have been the Burley Django, a Rans Stratus XP, a Rans Screamer and a Lightning P-38, all bikes with fairly upright positioning, so some of my discomfort is probably due this change in the degree of seat recline.
However, I find the position discomfiting for other reasons also.
I find my peripheral vision to be compromised in this position. Rolling my head from side to side is a poor substitute for being able to turn my head to see to the side.
Early morning and late afternoon riding can be problematic due to sunlight directly in my eyes. I always wear a nylon baseball style cap under my helmet when I ride but in this more laid back position the sun can get under the visor.
I wonder how Maria dealt with this problem on her RAAM ride?
In order to bring myself into a more comfortable and, I feel, safer position, I have been experimenting with inserting extra foam padding in the upper portion of the seat back and the headrest.
I purchased a roll of ensolite type camping mattress foam at KMart. I cut 3 pieces for the seat back - 1 piece 12" long, another 6" and the 3rd one 3", each one following the pattern of the stiff foam piece of the seat back cushion. When inserted between the soft foam and the stiff foam they create a wedge, lessening the degree of recline a small amount.
Next, I put more foam in the headrest and this had the desired effect of bringing my head into a more upright position. I am still very laid back, to my way of thinking at least, but now I feel more at ease looking down the road in front of me instead of up in the sky.
Is anyone else experiencing similar problems with their Silvio?
Were you able to adjust to the new position after awhile?
A friend of mine who rides a European mid racer says my seat position is more laid back than his bike.
Perhaps I was a candidate for the previous version of the Silvio and I could have had the advantage of being able to attach a rear rack too?
As a side note to this adjustment problem I find the head rest adjustment to be a real hassle.
In order to move the headrest the seat must be taken off and then one has to fiddle with the little wing type wedge clamps. Once the clamps are tight again you have to hope the headrest is where you wanted it before attaching the seat again to give it a try.
I find the seat recline on the new Silvio to be too extreme for my tastes.
I feel like a sausage laid out on a grill and find myself peering through the bottom lens of my bifocals to look at the road in front of me.
I thought I would give the bike a week or so of use and that maybe I would become accustomed to this new position - my other recumbents have been the Burley Django, a Rans Stratus XP, a Rans Screamer and a Lightning P-38, all bikes with fairly upright positioning, so some of my discomfort is probably due this change in the degree of seat recline.
However, I find the position discomfiting for other reasons also.
I find my peripheral vision to be compromised in this position. Rolling my head from side to side is a poor substitute for being able to turn my head to see to the side.
Early morning and late afternoon riding can be problematic due to sunlight directly in my eyes. I always wear a nylon baseball style cap under my helmet when I ride but in this more laid back position the sun can get under the visor.
I wonder how Maria dealt with this problem on her RAAM ride?
In order to bring myself into a more comfortable and, I feel, safer position, I have been experimenting with inserting extra foam padding in the upper portion of the seat back and the headrest.
I purchased a roll of ensolite type camping mattress foam at KMart. I cut 3 pieces for the seat back - 1 piece 12" long, another 6" and the 3rd one 3", each one following the pattern of the stiff foam piece of the seat back cushion. When inserted between the soft foam and the stiff foam they create a wedge, lessening the degree of recline a small amount.
Next, I put more foam in the headrest and this had the desired effect of bringing my head into a more upright position. I am still very laid back, to my way of thinking at least, but now I feel more at ease looking down the road in front of me instead of up in the sky.
Is anyone else experiencing similar problems with their Silvio?
Were you able to adjust to the new position after awhile?
A friend of mine who rides a European mid racer says my seat position is more laid back than his bike.
Perhaps I was a candidate for the previous version of the Silvio and I could have had the advantage of being able to attach a rear rack too?
As a side note to this adjustment problem I find the head rest adjustment to be a real hassle.
In order to move the headrest the seat must be taken off and then one has to fiddle with the little wing type wedge clamps. Once the clamps are tight again you have to hope the headrest is where you wanted it before attaching the seat again to give it a try.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
When adjusting the headrest,
When adjusting the headrest, wrap a bit of tape around it, so you can track your adjustments. Simple.
When adjusting the headrest, wrap a bit of tape around it, so you can track your adjustments. Simple.
MrSteve
Zen MBB Master
Headrest "101"
People are different.
Peoples' bodies are different.
Your body might be different enough, far enough away from 'normal', to need extra fitting...
to fit your bike to your body.
For example, my little brothers' head is big, angular and square.
All of his hats and helmets have had to be modified to fit his head comfortably.
My head, of course, is normal... not freakish at all.
*ahem*
On the other hand, my brother competes effectively on both of his
beloved diamond-frame road and off-road bikes.
I can't even sit on a diamond-frame bike without pain.
My point is, if your head rest is uncomfortable for you, you may have
to modify it until it is comfortable for you.
-----
I suggest that you relax into your Cruzbike seat, with the bike supported
in a stand, a trainer or something like that.
With your body seated and relaxed, pedal for a few minutes to make certain
that you are fully seated.
Now -easier with a helper- you determine exactly where your headrest should be, for you.
If the stock headrest fits you comfortably, then you're good!
If not, then give this a try:
I did my own headrest fitting, using a foot-long length of solid copper electrical wire.
I molded/bent the wire against the back of my head, along my neck and on to the back end
of the seat... and got my own custom headrest profile.
If you don't have copper wire, well, anything that will bend to shape easily and hold it's new
shape will work.
Thick, heavy wire solder will work well;
soft steel wire will work too.
I used the copper wire because it was lying around, close to hand.
Even cardboard and Gorilla tape will work!
All you need do after finding the profile, the headrest shape that fits you best,
is match it by sculpting your headrest foam to match.
My headrest fits me perfectly.
I hope this gives you some idea of what's possible.
Remember, fit is everything... at least, it sure helps!
-Steve
People are different.
Peoples' bodies are different.
Your body might be different enough, far enough away from 'normal', to need extra fitting...
to fit your bike to your body.
For example, my little brothers' head is big, angular and square.
All of his hats and helmets have had to be modified to fit his head comfortably.
My head, of course, is normal... not freakish at all.
*ahem*
On the other hand, my brother competes effectively on both of his
beloved diamond-frame road and off-road bikes.
I can't even sit on a diamond-frame bike without pain.
My point is, if your head rest is uncomfortable for you, you may have
to modify it until it is comfortable for you.
-----
I suggest that you relax into your Cruzbike seat, with the bike supported
in a stand, a trainer or something like that.
With your body seated and relaxed, pedal for a few minutes to make certain
that you are fully seated.
Now -easier with a helper- you determine exactly where your headrest should be, for you.
If the stock headrest fits you comfortably, then you're good!
If not, then give this a try:
I did my own headrest fitting, using a foot-long length of solid copper electrical wire.
I molded/bent the wire against the back of my head, along my neck and on to the back end
of the seat... and got my own custom headrest profile.
If you don't have copper wire, well, anything that will bend to shape easily and hold it's new
shape will work.
Thick, heavy wire solder will work well;
soft steel wire will work too.
I used the copper wire because it was lying around, close to hand.
Even cardboard and Gorilla tape will work!
All you need do after finding the profile, the headrest shape that fits you best,
is match it by sculpting your headrest foam to match.
My headrest fits me perfectly.
I hope this gives you some idea of what's possible.
Remember, fit is everything... at least, it sure helps!
-Steve
MrSteve
Zen MBB Master
Hi, Larry...
The hydroformed frames of both of the current Silvio and Vendetta models
keep drawing me to, well, drool.
The beautiful builds, based on these drool-worthy frames, are stunning, innovative and fun-fun-fun.
In reality, I'm a hard-core Sofrider V1 owner/operator/tinkerer who
likes to hang out in the Vendetta, Silvio, Quest and Conversion forums for both
fun and inspiration.
So anyway, you'll find some photos of my modified ride in both the Sofrider and Sofrider
modification forums.
For example:
http://cruzbike.com/sofrider-v1-mods
-Steve
The hydroformed frames of both of the current Silvio and Vendetta models
keep drawing me to, well, drool.
The beautiful builds, based on these drool-worthy frames, are stunning, innovative and fun-fun-fun.
In reality, I'm a hard-core Sofrider V1 owner/operator/tinkerer who
likes to hang out in the Vendetta, Silvio, Quest and Conversion forums for both
fun and inspiration.
So anyway, you'll find some photos of my modified ride in both the Sofrider and Sofrider
modification forums.
For example:
http://cruzbike.com/sofrider-v1-mods
-Steve
Jeremy S
Dude
In response to Bruce's
In response to Bruce's comment, I too might prefer a more upright seat on my Silvio 2.0, but I find the seat OK as it is. I do sit up straight every time I start or stop, and occasionally on sharp corners with poor visibility. I'm not sure if these behaviors will persist as I ride more. One issue I discovered is that the headrest transfers impacts to my head which is quite uncomfortable, so I have to lift my head before I hit any significant bumps.
In response to Bruce's comment, I too might prefer a more upright seat on my Silvio 2.0, but I find the seat OK as it is. I do sit up straight every time I start or stop, and occasionally on sharp corners with poor visibility. I'm not sure if these behaviors will persist as I ride more. One issue I discovered is that the headrest transfers impacts to my head which is quite uncomfortable, so I have to lift my head before I hit any significant bumps.
Tuloose
Guru
headrest adjustment
If the headrest were adjustable forward and back instead of just up & down it would help with attaining the proper fit.
As it is we have a headrest 'sock" that fits over the 2 pieces of foam and then slides over the headrest tubing.
In order to modify the degree of head tilt we have to add foam pieces inside the sock.
The amount of adjustment is limited by the capacity of the sock.
I now have mine stuffed like a kid's Christmas stocking.
To my way of thinking the perfect headrest would be easily adjustable without having to remove the seat and would adjust fore & aft as well as up & down.
Oh, and maybe it would include suspension to take out the rough bumps Jeremy mentioned
If the headrest were adjustable forward and back instead of just up & down it would help with attaining the proper fit.
As it is we have a headrest 'sock" that fits over the 2 pieces of foam and then slides over the headrest tubing.
In order to modify the degree of head tilt we have to add foam pieces inside the sock.
The amount of adjustment is limited by the capacity of the sock.
I now have mine stuffed like a kid's Christmas stocking.
To my way of thinking the perfect headrest would be easily adjustable without having to remove the seat and would adjust fore & aft as well as up & down.
Oh, and maybe it would include suspension to take out the rough bumps Jeremy mentioned
Ivan
Guru
So far I am really liking my
So far I am really liking my headrest. I took it out a further 2cm for today's ride and it was even better. The only minor problem I have is that my helmet retaining strap has a protrusion where the headrest contacts the base of my skull. Taking the headrest further out also seems to help on the bumps. Of course, I lift my head a little on the bumps.
I am really liking the 27 deg seat angle. I could have it even more but this is very sensible for traffic. At first I couldn't easily check for traffic but I am getting a hang of that now and practice turning my head left/right while riding in a straight line.
So far I am really liking my headrest. I took it out a further 2cm for today's ride and it was even better. The only minor problem I have is that my helmet retaining strap has a protrusion where the headrest contacts the base of my skull. Taking the headrest further out also seems to help on the bumps. Of course, I lift my head a little on the bumps.
I am really liking the 27 deg seat angle. I could have it even more but this is very sensible for traffic. At first I couldn't easily check for traffic but I am getting a hang of that now and practice turning my head left/right while riding in a straight line.
Tuloose
Guru
on a slant
Yes, I know it is on a diagonal plane.
I did not want to mention the obvious when I was fantasizing about the ideal head rest.
Let me rephrase that.
Instead of only moving up & down in the frame I think the head rest adjustment would be greatly enhanced if it also was INDEPENDENTLY adjustable forward & back.
Just like a head rest in a vehicle and it should be just as easy to adjust.
After all, as some have noted on this thread, "fit is everything".
Why not make it so it is easy to fit to varying individual preferences?
It seems to me that we are the beta testers for this new bike.
When I purchased my Silvio assembly instructions were not even available yet.
A lot of my assembly was by trial & error.
Ivan's photos were an immense help but did not cover everything.
My triple chainwheel crankset did not come with any warning that the tabs on the small chain ring would have to be cut off.
The clamps for the head rest were upside down and the instructions were vague on this part.
It seems that the bike was shipped out before the supporting documents were ready.
Others have noted problems with assembly or fit also.
Obviously, the head rest works for some but not for all.
I have almost 200 miles on the bike now and it gets better day by day.
My gosh, how this bike accelerates and climbs!
The comfort & fit is something I'm still working on but performance is first rate.
Yes, I know it is on a diagonal plane.
I did not want to mention the obvious when I was fantasizing about the ideal head rest.
Let me rephrase that.
Instead of only moving up & down in the frame I think the head rest adjustment would be greatly enhanced if it also was INDEPENDENTLY adjustable forward & back.
Just like a head rest in a vehicle and it should be just as easy to adjust.
After all, as some have noted on this thread, "fit is everything".
Why not make it so it is easy to fit to varying individual preferences?
It seems to me that we are the beta testers for this new bike.
When I purchased my Silvio assembly instructions were not even available yet.
A lot of my assembly was by trial & error.
Ivan's photos were an immense help but did not cover everything.
My triple chainwheel crankset did not come with any warning that the tabs on the small chain ring would have to be cut off.
The clamps for the head rest were upside down and the instructions were vague on this part.
It seems that the bike was shipped out before the supporting documents were ready.
Others have noted problems with assembly or fit also.
Obviously, the head rest works for some but not for all.
I have almost 200 miles on the bike now and it gets better day by day.
My gosh, how this bike accelerates and climbs!
The comfort & fit is something I'm still working on but performance is first rate.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
There is always tension
There is always tension between cost, complexity, simplicity, function, aesthetics and aerodynamics. Every new adjustment is a new area for questions to arise that can be hard to support over the web. At the moment, the headrest design stays as it is. Some have said change to a lower offset, make it less tall. but then those who would be disadvantaged by that have not mentioned it, how could they? So altering spec is difficult without detailed information which generally is impossible to collect. Instead, I have to work with what I understand to be the modal case of body ergonomics. I have to make that judgement somehow.
There is always tension between cost, complexity, simplicity, function, aesthetics and aerodynamics. Every new adjustment is a new area for questions to arise that can be hard to support over the web. At the moment, the headrest design stays as it is. Some have said change to a lower offset, make it less tall. but then those who would be disadvantaged by that have not mentioned it, how could they?
So altering spec is difficult without detailed information which generally is impossible to collect. Instead, I have to work with what I understand to be the modal case of body ergonomics. I have to make that judgement somehow.
Tuloose
Guru
Head rest
I never was able to get my head rest adjusted to where I felt comfortable.
My head seemed to be tilted too far back so I was looking more up than straight ahead.
I cut a piece of the camping pad foam I mentioned into a long strip, 3.5" X 20".
I folded the foam lengthwise 4" X 4 folds and left a 4" piece hanging down.
I wrapped the folded up foam with black duct tape and inserted the hanging piece between my X-Eyed seat bag and the seat back.
I then ran a zip tie thru the top of the new head rest extension
and then thru the stock head rest and tied it down.
It's a bit funky looking but form should follow function right?
After this photo was taken I moved the Silvio head rest out of the seat by 1.5" and lowered the extension piece down a bit which makes it fit even better.
I took it out on a 45 mile ride yesterday and felt much more comfortable on the bike. I was looking down the road in front of me with a more upright head position.
I never was able to get my head rest adjusted to where I felt comfortable.
My head seemed to be tilted too far back so I was looking more up than straight ahead.
I cut a piece of the camping pad foam I mentioned into a long strip, 3.5" X 20".
I folded the foam lengthwise 4" X 4 folds and left a 4" piece hanging down.
I wrapped the folded up foam with black duct tape and inserted the hanging piece between my X-Eyed seat bag and the seat back.
I then ran a zip tie thru the top of the new head rest extension
and then thru the stock head rest and tied it down.
It's a bit funky looking but form should follow function right?
After this photo was taken I moved the Silvio head rest out of the seat by 1.5" and lowered the extension piece down a bit which makes it fit even better.
I took it out on a 45 mile ride yesterday and felt much more comfortable on the bike. I was looking down the road in front of me with a more upright head position.
Ivan
Guru
Telescoping headrest
I was wondering if the current headrest could be made telescoping? Cut the headrest supports where they are vertical and use aluminium tubes that snugly fit the headrest tubes (either inside or on the outside). With clamps to tighten, this will provide a range of vertical adjustment. Together with how much the headrest is inserted into the frame, this provides full range of adjustment. Personally, I would like to try a lower headrest than the stock and see if that suits me better.
This would be a low cost mod and if done by the factory could be neatly finished. Even the home spun variety would look fine as it would be covered by the headrest cushion. What do you all think?
I was wondering if the current headrest could be made telescoping? Cut the headrest supports where they are vertical and use aluminium tubes that snugly fit the headrest tubes (either inside or on the outside). With clamps to tighten, this will provide a range of vertical adjustment. Together with how much the headrest is inserted into the frame, this provides full range of adjustment. Personally, I would like to try a lower headrest than the stock and see if that suits me better.
This would be a low cost mod and if done by the factory could be neatly finished. Even the home spun variety would look fine as it would be covered by the headrest cushion. What do you all think?
