Some newbie questions.

[makinit1212]

So I'm in! Glad to be a 451 V2 owner and excited to join The Tribe. I picked it up pretty quick and handled about 12 miles today without killing myself. Many thoughts on the ride, etc but first up, I have some basic questions.

I barely fit on this thing. (6ft.) Previous owner swapped out the shorter chainstay for a longer one because the BB was just too low for his liking with the stock one. Well my knees were hitting the gear shift, etc on the bars. So I raised everything as high as possible, including the adjustable stem that is on there and I barely make it. It's not enough clearance. I assume I can just put the shorter chainstay back on and get a little space but I like the idea of being closer to parallel with the ground like he did. I suppose I should try the stock one, but I suspect I am not the first person to have to figure out how to fit on this thing and I was thinking I can just get a taller riser. Where can I find one? Will I start affecting the stability and strength of the system if I go too tall with it?

This pivot clamp with the quick releases is going to rub my thighs raw. This seems like a bad design decision. Why quick release? Seems like even skinny legs would hit both sides as well, no? And what can I do to replace it with more traditional mounting hardware?

Wider bars. Because I'm new, and wobbly, seems like wider bars would go really far in helping me feel more stable as I work through this learning curve. Any recommendations or resources for those?

Thanks in advance for any help and feedback.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

Hi makinit, I understand your dilemma trying to make legs fit around gear shifts, and handlebars, and quick releases.
I did a post about tweaking the front end of my Q559 back in June if you look it up, but here’s the short version...

For quick release dramas, I just took them off and left them off, and replaced the bolts with higher tensile versions and tightened them up against the original elliptical threaded nuts. I was having issues with the Diatech headset adjustment and could never get the quick releases tight enough. When I did, I risked stripping out the hex bolt from over tightening.Now I have no issues with wobbly riser or thigh rub.

As for getting legs to fit under the handlebars, I made three changes...
1. I changed the stem out for a longer height adjustable one. This allows me more clearance with the existing riser.
2. I bought 650mm Soma Sparrow handlebars. I looked online until I found something that looked right and took a punt. They work great for me, as I like to have a straighter arm when riding and the hump in the bar design gives me plenty of room for knees.
3. The third thing I did was turn the gear shifter about 180degrees on the bar. This took a little getting used to as you can no longer see the gear indicator, but with practise I find I never look much anyway and the advantage of having no knee bump far outweighed any other issue.
It is worth tweaking a bit for sure because once you get over the initial learning curve and correct little issues that are unique to your size and riding style, then your confidence soars. I wondered at first whether I had made a blunder buying such an unusual bike but now I am riding more and more confidently, and going greater distances, the small modifications here and there making it very efficient and pleasurable.

I hope this helps

 

[makinit1212]

Thanks for the great tips Post. I appreciate the quality feedback. Definitely going to just swap out those bolts. And I think I like that bar too. Flipping the gear shift seems tough. Do you have the dual drive? Can't seem to figure out how to reach the triple geared switch. Maybe place it on the left side of the bar?

Still hoping someone has a resource for a longer riser.

 

[ratz]

Based on Experience the short chainstay will adjust things in the wrong direction for tall people; legs come back more; and you can't go as far down as you would think with the extension because you reach a point of hard interference. If you email support@cruzbike.com them might still have inventory on a taller "riser" stem that makes for a lot more room. The last iteration of the QX100 used it; give the new Q45 they might have excess spares now. Robert will know if you email him.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

Apologies! I just measured my Soma bar and realised they are 560mm wide between tube centres, 600mm overall.
The Soma Sparrow bars work for me, but make sure to look around on this forum at other folks’ choices as well. Before I bought mine I sat on the bike and placed my hands in what I thought was an ideal position. Then I made a few measurements and started making comparisons with bars I saw in bike shops or recycle centres, and online suppliers.

My local bike shop actually got me to try the gear shifter change when they swapped out a burred cable. Yes, My bike has the dual shifter and I love it! I think some folks are put off by the slight extra weight, but for me the ability to pick a lower gear while stopped at an intersection is fantastic. I was unsure of the changed shifter position at first, but now it is just second nature - I change up with my index finger and down with my thumb. I cannot see the little orange indicator any more but it rarely matters. To check, all I do is take a quick look at where the chain is on the cassette. The only compromise I have is that in the higher gear ratio, the lever rests against my hand, but this pales in comparison to banging my knee against the shifter.

 

[castlerobber]

This pivot clamp with the quick releases is going to rub my thighs raw. This seems like a bad design decision. Why quick release?

The Q451 was intended to be packable into a Samsonite suitcase for travel, hence all the QRs for the shock, seat post, riser, seat, etc. I had fits with the QRs on the pivot clamp rubbing also. Getting rid of them was the first mod I made to the bike--I did the same thing @Postapocalypsia did. The Q is quite customizable; I think the only original parts I have on it after 4 1/2 years are the frame, seat, and riser. (ETA--and the brakes)

 

[Rampa]

I went with these no name bars. They do need a 31.8 handlebar clamp stem though. They're great! 660mm wide. They fit mountain components, so your Quest stuff will mount on them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Urban-Road-Bike-Handlebar-25-31-8mm-M-Moustache-Shape-Extra-Wide-Dutch-Black/142882035756?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[makinit1212]

You peeps are great! Like those bars a lot as well. I will likely go with a different stem at some point once I figure out riser height. I will need to replace it for sure or at least add an extender. I reached out to Robert at support and he thinks they may have a longer one. We'll see.

I was able to get enough clearance by turning my stem around to face me at it's highest position but the bars are just too close to my chest. It was nice to ride for a few miles without concern for hitting my knees but it's a temporary solution. I, of course, am going to be pretty picky about cockpit stuff.

I did lose the quick release handles. I just used the stock screws for now so they stick out a few mm but I will replace them when I have time to hunt them down. @Postapocalypsia and @castlerobber Do either of you remember the exact screws you used? Length and thread spacing? (ordering online would be easier) I did ask Robert if he has one of the pivot clamps with the normal screw design but he had not replied just yet.

That's it for now but real quick..... Will my upper torso calm down a bit? Carrying a lot of tension in the neck and shoulders, even lower back. All contradictory to my intention with a bent to begin with. Don't have that with my trike for obvious reasons (?)

Thanks ya'll.

 

[castlerobber]

Do either of you remember the exact screws you used? Length and thread spacing? (ordering online would be easier)

I found the dimensions in an old thread and ordered the screws on Amazon.
M6 x 25

Will my upper torso calm down a bit? Carrying a lot of tension in the neck and shoulders, even lower back.

Yes, once you get everything adjusted to fit and have more experience riding it, that should calm down. I was super tense for several months, but it did go away.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

Do have a look at an adjustable stem as an option instead of a higher riser. Mine was swapped out from my old DF hybrid. I am a tad under 6’ And this solved a lot of issues for me. Because of the greater length and adjustment I could swing the handlebars up through an arc, giving me all the knee room I want without needing a higher riser. Also because the handlebars are further forward I have straighter arms and no tension that comes from a cramped cockpit. The pic shows the setup and the alt position of the shifter.

 

[super slim]

If your cranks are 175 mm long, then changing them to 153 mm long cranks, will give you a lot more knee space, AND also reduce the knee bend angle!

 

[makinit1212]

@Postapocalypsia The bike already actually has the adjustable stem on there. I had it mounted at the very top of the riser and then had it tilted as high as it can go but my knees still hit. I tried turning it around as I mentioned earlier and it gave me enough room but it squeezed the cockpit too much. Thank you for sharing the pic.

@super slim The bike still has the original 155 mm crank arms. In my years of cycling and mechanic work I’ve never actually explored the benefits and drawbacks of different size crank arms. I am interested in why recumbent bikes often use shorter crank arms. Something that I am getting ready to research as I continue to get the bike closer to my final set up. I did think about this in regards to having more leg clearance but I certainly wouldn’t want to go shorter than 155 mm. I am interested in a simple breakdown of why recumbents use a shorter crank arm and how that affects cadence versus watts. I know that on my fat tire trike that I have, I have on their standard 175 mm crank arms from a mountain bike crankset and I seem to have a tough time keeping a good cadence. It’s closer to 70 RPM instead of 80 to 85 RPM like I prefer.

Still learning here. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[super slim]

I THINK the reason recumbents generally use 153 mm cranks instead of 175 mm cranks, is that with the approx 160 degrees angle between the spine and the CL of the hip to the Bottom Bracket, compared to 90 degrees for a DF, and that you are sitting on the back of the hips instead of the central sit bone, then with 175 cranks the hip rocks more!

I think Larry explained it in detail, but I cannot find the conversation!

I know that when I rode by Quest V1.0 with 153 mm cranks, my knees would complain 2 hrs later, than when riding my Silvio V1.0 with 175 mm cranks!
My cadence went from 80 up to 90 with the 153 mm crank.

https://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/my-t50-emeljay-mod.12463/
RX7mark did this using Soma Gator MTB drop bars with 31.8 mm at the stem, and 22.2 mm in the grip area so MTB brakes and shifters can be used.
With a Drop of 65 mm this moves you hands 65 mm away from you, with the cross part of the handle bar,where your thigh nearly hits, being in the same position!

https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/gator-handlebar

 

[GetBent]

So how does that affect gearing? Did swapping have any effect on hill climbing ability?

 

[super slim]

So how does that affect gearing? Did swapping have any effect on hill climbing ability?

You need to use the next rear gear down for the same speed and power.

 

[onmyback]

@Postapocalypsia The bike already actually has the adjustable stem on there. I had it mounted at the very top of the riser and then had it tilted as high as it can go but my knees still hit. I tried turning it around as I mentioned earlier and it gave me enough room but it squeezed the cockpit too much. Thank you for sharing the pic.

@super slim The bike still has the original 155 mm crank arms. In my years of cycling and mechanic work I’ve never actually explored the benefits and drawbacks of different size crank arms. I am interested in why recumbent bikes often use shorter crank arms. Something that I am getting ready to research as I continue to get the bike closer to my final set up. I did think about this in regards to having more leg clearance but I certainly wouldn’t want to go shorter than 155 mm. I am interested in a simple breakdown of why recumbents use a shorter crank arm and how that affects cadence versus watts. I know that on my fat tire trike that I have, I have on their standard 175 mm crank arms from a mountain bike crankset and I seem to have a tough time keeping a good cadence. It’s closer to 70 RPM instead of 80 to 85 RPM like I prefer.

Still learning here. Thanks for all the feedback.

I've found the short cranks really helped me bring up my cadence, which in turn reduces pedal steer. They also improve leg to handlebar clearance. As a bonus, I find I spin my 172mm cranked high racer at a higher cadence not, too.

 

[paco1961]

Moving from DF/172.5 to CB w the same crankset my knees immediately started to scream at me. Took only about a 20-mile moderate paced ride to feel the pain. Switched to 155 and problem was solved and has not returned. Has not resulted in increased cadence for me but since I took up cycling at age 50 after 35 years of competetive running that is not a surprise. Despite constantly working on cadence I’m still a bit of a pedal masher.