V20 for "everyday" riding?

[PatrickThomas]

Hi V-people,

Thanks to a couple of you for answering this in PM already, but figured I would ask in "public" as well. My heart fell in love with the concept (and looks, to be fair) of the V20 a couple years ago, and I've been getting more serious about pulling the trigger. But the reality is that I'm into speed for the fun of it, not to win world records, so now my head is getting involved in the decision and making me question some practical things, like how I need to stow a laptop bag someplace when I commute to work, or how I often ride couple/few-hour touring trips, or how I'm often riding over crummy roads and crushed stone rail-to-trails... and maybe this would be too much of a pain in the V20 and I should consider something more like the S40.

But maybe The V diehards have found workarounds for the challenges. I'd love to hear about it!

Of course ideally I could just ride some side-by-side, but doesn't seem there's many folks in the Detroit area thus far to try to mooch rides off.

I should say this is not my first recumbent experience... I currently have a Vision R45, and a low trike as well... but definitely my first go at FWD.

Certainly I've seen that people DO tour successfully with the Vendetta, but whether they are comfortable doing so, or whether it took them years to get the needed level of stability in doing so is left to the imagination. ;-)

Anyway thanks & enjoy the upcoming season!

 

[Mrnelson]

I've put many thousands on my v20 so my 2 cents: commuting with it should be fine. Crummy roads; I don't think it'll be any worse the Vision R45, especially with a little wider tire. Crushed stone trails: it's fine so long as you don't mind it getting dirty and you have wide enough tires. As for storage of a laptop, I'm not aware of any racks that accommodate that, but I'll leave it for others to weigh in.
Primarily I ride the v20 because it's wickedly fast and fun. When I do longer rides with friends I make them carry the gear
The S40 may be more suited to what you're looking for. I suspect it's a little better climber, has more options for racks/ touring gear, wider tire range, etc.

 

[Beano]

In a nutshell, the V20 can do all what you have asked for but the S40 is better suited.

Options on the S40 for wider tyres, rack and panniers and wider gearing with a more upright and relaxed position.

 

[M.J]

Certainly I've seen that people DO tour successfully with the Vendetta, but whether they are comfortable doing so, or whether it took them years to get the needed level of stability in doing so is left to the imagination. ;-)

Anyway thanks & enjoy the upcoming season!

It doesn't take "years" to gain stability. MBB bikes are not the unruly monsters in need of taming that the naysayers would have you believe. It takes miles and practice, for some people a few hours, for some a few days and before you know it, you're not even thinking about it any more.
Really look at your riding and decide what you want. How often do you really need to carry stuff? Do you ever *really* need to or do you maybe have another bike you could use as a commuter? How often do you really do loaded tours? Buying a vehicle based on "well someday I might want to" is how people end up driving boring, boxy crossover SUVs when a zippy small car would do 99% of the time.
Most of the time for me, the most important aspect of a bike is how fast it is because I mostly ride for fun. I have commuted on my V20 and it was fine, but there are better bikes.

 

[david hopkins]

S40 with skinny tyres, aero wheels and road gearing is probably going to be a fast beast, especially with right clothes and good body conditioning.

Im in a similar position, lots of climbing and substandard roads, the new v20c, is beautiful and probably 2-3mph faster but I think I could probably give speed a good shot with an optimised s40 and also have all the versatility of a gravel bike with some different wheels etc.

In an ideal world, s40 with the v20c seat and front end would be my ideal bike, and Im crossing my fingers it might turn up in the next year or so and Im sticking to the upright until then.

 

[M.J]

There's speed and then there's speed.
If you're happy with your current upright bike speed then an S40 will work fine.
But at 100% effort when details matter, the V20 is the answer. There's just no arguing with physics.

 

[chicorider]

If money and storage space aren't too limited, the best approach is to put together a quiver of bikes over time. I have my CB S30 for commuting, errands, and social riding, my V20 for all things vroom-vroom, my full suspension mtb for the rough off-road stuff, and a hardtail for the smoother off-road stuff, such as gravel. I definitely don't need a fifth bike, but if, for some reason, I had to narrow my four down to two (yikes!), I would keep the full suspension rig and the V20. And if I could have only one? (I shudder at the mere thought!) The V20 wins.

 

[Frito Bandito]

If money and storage space aren't too limited, the best approach is to put together a quiver of bikes over time. I have my CB S30 for commuting, errands, and social riding, my V20 for all things vroom-vroom, my full suspension mtb for the rough off-road stuff, and a hardtail for the smoother off-road stuff, such as gravel. I definitely don't need a fifth bike, but if, for some reason, I had to narrow my four down to two (yikes!), I would keep the full suspension rig and the V20. And if I could have only one? (I shudder at the mere thought!) The V20 wins.

Count me in this boat too. I have my commuter (Merida 150 with Shimano Tiagra trigger shifters, Zonda wheels and Dura Ace chain) with 50/34t and 11/28t that does everything in town, and climbs well for social rides with friends. My Lightspeed T1 with Campagnolo Chorus, clip-on aero bars and tubeless Pro Ones on Scirocco wheels is my speedy DF bike that rides like a dream that I figured would be my forever bike. But my V20 has simply put my T1 on the shelf. I took T1 out the other day for a jaunt through town and it felt like the almost perfect girl you broke up with but took out on a lunch date just to confirm that you were correct about believing the character conflicts would blow up in the future making both of you miserable. Might be time to put T1 on the market so someone else can be happy with it, and it can feel the road beneath its wheels like it was designed for. Or, turn it into my commuter once the Merida Kicks the bucket? HAHAHA.

 

[Don1]

Yes it's like you remember all the good times together but then you go on a group ride on the road bike(cuz yer mates complain about no sit) and can't do more than 40km cuz of the pain you're in. Road bikes are gaslighters for sure. The v20 needs to weigh similar to a road bike so I can do hills just as fast. Unfortunately that's more money....

 

[Frito Bandito]

Sadly, you gotta let the roadies pass you on the hills so they feel invincible for a moment or two. It's just setting them up for a slaughtering, but Oh well. At least it isn't totally one sided so they will keep inviting you back.

 

[Duncanleon]

I had to make the same decision at the beginning of last season. I was out of the country and there was definately no one around me to test ride with. After perusing the videos on the V20, I bit the bullet and ordered the frameset. When I returned to the States the box was waiting for me to morph my diamond frame into a Vendetta. Once I started there was no going back. Fortunately all the components were interchangeable. I had to learn to ride all over again. But after severall hundred miles I was relaxing to the point where it was fun riding rather than holding on for dear life. Speed is the key and result of riding the V20. Its invigorating to pass those long pelotns and still pull away especially if theres a headwind and its flat. (the comments are pretty humorous).. not so much on an uphill though.

The biggest decisions these days are what can I do to make if go faster

 

[LarryOz]

The biggest decisions these days are what can I do to make if go faster

I tried to order a bigger motor, but it was "out-of-stock"

 

[Frito Bandito]

I tried to order a bigger motor, but it was "out-of-stock"

Your motor is doing alright braddah but I feel your pain. Paying for the upgrades is painful but necessary because not doing it is worse.

 

[5duece]

I wanted the S40 but they were sold out. I ended up getting the V20 from this forum less than a year ago. I took about 2 minutes to learn how to "RIDE" it in a high school parking lot. A bowl shape is your best option so you can coast down and up the other side to try again. I didn't hit the public roads for a month because I needed to get rid of that wobble and sudden pulls left or right. They went away with time and 9 months later got rid of the foam wedge behind me and went for the full V20 effect and the comfort level went up as well as the speed. Today I hit some gravel following the wife on her DF bike and the V20 did fine (using conti 28's). I think the S40 would do much better as some stated above and probably on bad roads too. I bought a S30 on this forum and it was delivered today. Excited to get the Mrs on it and see what she can do, but first we return to the bowl at the High School.

 

[Tuloose]

I find that the V really kills on rollers.
Something about the speed you gain on the downhill portion acting as a turbo charger to boost your speed on the uphill.
If I'm chasing a pack of roadies on a rolling section I like to wait until they are going uphill before I put the mettle to the pedal.
This way I can pass them on the upside which perplexes them somewhat since "recumbents aren't supposed to climb".
After they recover from the initial shock they give pursuit but since we are now headed downhill and I have a distinct aero advantage I barely have to turn the cranks to put significant distance between them and myself.

But as I said, this works only on rollers.
Going up the long & steeps with no aero advantage and a bit of a weight penalty means I'm mid pack or off the back.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I find that the V really kills on rollers.
Something about the speed you gain on the downhill portion acting as a turbo charger to boost your speed on the uphill.
If I'm chasing a pack of roadies on a rolling section I like to wait until they are going uphill before I put the mettle to the pedal.
This way I can pass them on the upside which perplexes them somewhat since "recumbents aren't supposed to climb".
After they recover from the initial shock they give pursuit but since we are now headed downhill and I have a distinct aero advantage I barely have to turn the cranks to put significant distance between them and myself.

But as I said, this works only on rollers.
Going up the long & steeps with no aero advantage and a bit of a weight penalty means I'm mid pack or off the back.

Youtuber FastFitnessTips did a video on climbing on the hoods with higher power and climbing on the drops with better aero to see which is better. Take it with a grain of salt, but according to him (with a bit of applied science) he concluded that the aero benefits of climbing on the drops was faster until the speed dropped to below 10kph, then the increased power output while on the HOODS was faster. It's difficult to say at what speed the power output of a DF rider is faster than the aero benefits of a V20 during climbs. Hammering on the ascents and coasting (or relaxing) on the descents seems to be faster and more efficient than the opposite.

Edit: Replaced "drops" with "HOODS".

 

[chicorider]

Climbing has always been my strength (I'm one of those smaller, lighter riders), and I have not found the V to be much of a liability on longer, sustained climbs. I have even bettered some of my old DF climbing times on the V. I don't ride much with racers and hammerheads, but on century rides, I am rarely passed on climbs while I do plenty of passing. I don't say this to talk about myself, but to emphasize that in my experience as a climber, the V has been plenty capable. And since I am riding in comfort, staying fresher, and using fewer watts, I can climb all day on the darn thing.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I wish I were as light as you Chico. In some cases being taller and heavier is an advantage, but it definitely isn't in climbing. More to carry, and a bigger frontal area means the watt/kg ratio and the aero are usually gonna be worse. You are right though. The V can climb. I put in a very hard effort on my DF bike in a climb, and then later did the same climb faster on my V. I was in a little better shape on my V, but it shows the V can climb. So, in an everyday riding scenario it could work. If there were an excessive amount of time doing less than 10kph then I'd probably consider something else, but others might be more comfortable at slower speeds while climbing than I am. I'm spoiled with the flats

 

[vosadrian]

My experience is different to yours Chico. I am not the best climber but I am OK. There are some climbs near me (3-4km at >5% for around 8-10 minutes) that have strava segments with 20,000 riders on them, and my best times put me in the top 2% of riders, so I am probably better than OK, but I ride with other riders in the top 1%, so I am not as good as them. I rode most of last year on the V20 exclusively (around 10,00okms), and got my power up to reasonable levels, but still around 10% short of what I could do on the DF. Despite no time on my DF, I hopped back on it to do some climbs and went up some steep stuff close to me and put down more power and topped the climb 30 seconds faster.... and it felt like I worked less hard as I was not really all in.

I think it is an individual thing. I am the type of climber who likes to move my muscle use around. I move around on the saddle, I change gears between low and high cadence. I stand and sit. I find that doing this allows me to put out power longer. On the V20 my options for doing this are limited. I can really only change cadence. So I am stuck using the muscle groups at threshold power for many minutes, and it limits my power output compared to DF. I imagine a DF rider who just sits in the same position for long climbs without changing much would probably deal better with the V20 than I do for climbing.

 

[chicorider]

@Frito Bandito Yeah, I'm light and can climb, but back in my DF days, when those big guys got those diesel engines going on the flats, I was always toast! I like that cycling let's people play to their strength, and that those strengths can vary from rider to rider. It keeps things interesting.

@vosadrian While the V can climb, "I think it is an individual thing" says it all. I have never moved around much on the bike when climbing, but instead fit the gear to my cadence to the gradient and spin. We each find our way, for sure.