V20 RD Shifting Issues

[Alan W Dolbeer]

I have a V20 that I purchased new in May 2015. Build was Rival 22, compact crank, X9 rear derailleur, and PG-1170 11-36t cassette. I crashed hard the 2nd month I had the bike when I hit debris in a curve from T-Storms the previous week. Shifting still functioned, though not perfectly as before. My LBS adjusted the RD hanger and I have used the bike until this year without shifting trouble.
Recently I started replacing components and am about to switch over to Rival 22 Hyd disk brake components and wheels (don't have the disk hub wheels yet). In the meantime I installed the stock V20 wheelset with a new 11-36t cassette, new chain, and new a SRAM Gx 2x11 RD. The X9 RD had some surface damage from sliding down the road during crash back in 2015 and I figured it was time to replace it with a new one.
Since that time I have not been able to achieve good performance across the entire range of gears. IE if on the big chainring and RD cable tension is adjusted for perfect shifting in the smallest cassette cogs, then I can not get the chain to stay on the 36T cog when on the small chainring of the compact crank (as needed for climbing a steep hill). When I tighten cable tension a bit more to get the 34 x 36t low gear functioning, then I can not get to 50 x 11 high gear at all. Plus the next two larger cogs tick like crazy.

I have fiddled some with the RD hanger adjustment but no help yet. I see that the hanger is press fit and I have not tried to replace it with the spare hanger. Indeed I will need to find a procedure before replacing the hanger.

Anyway, are any other V20 owners using the same cassette and Rival 22 brifters with a SRAM Gx 2x11 RD? I just need a sanity check before attempting further RD hanger adjustment or replacement . Thanks.

 

[RojoRacing]

First thought is I'm not sure the XX1-GX sram series are compatible with brifters as in they don't use the same 1-1 ratio anymore. I could be wrong about the GX but I'm 99% sure this was the case when they first released the XX1 stuff.

 

[Doug Kline]

Yes, Rojo's right. While SRAM's 10 speed road shifters were compatible with SRAM's 10-speed MTB derailleurs, that changed with the introduction of 11 speed. Your Rival 22 shifters have Exact Actuation and your GX derailleur needs a X-ACTUATION pull. I haven't used one yet, but a Jtek Shiftmate 9 is made to solve this problem.

 

[RojoRacing]

shifters are simple, each click moves the cable an exact amount each time and each manufacture uses a slightly different ratio, it's a very small difference like a handful of thousands but it adds up from one side to the other 11 shifts later. So basically you'll be able to dial it in for maybe 4-5 cogs before the indexing increases or lags enough to no longer work good enough. The shiftmate that Doug is referring to is a devise that adjusts the ratio just enough to match your shifters index ratio to the RD's ratio. They even make them to match shimano to sram stuff as well. Once you understand the concept of how they work it's stupid simple but unless that simple ratio matches your stupid simple setup it's going to work correct.

 

[Alan W Dolbeer]

Sheesh! I missed that they changed the cable pull between MTB 10 and 11 speed components. Read on a forum someplace where the Gx was used but must have misunderstood the conversation.
Any idea what RD people have been using which can work with the 11-36t cassette? I would have used the Rival Med WiFli but did not think it would work with a 36t cog. Thanks.

 

[Alan W Dolbeer]

Will look into the Jtek Shiftmate 9 as well. Probably the simplest solution as you say.

 

[ratz]

The force 22 is the best non clutch derailler for those shifters. better than the rival just no lockout. we all used the x9 for the lockout.

 

[Doug Kline]

Any idea what RD people have been using which can work with the 11-36t cassette?

I would "expect" a 10-speed Exact Actuation rear derailleur to work with 11-speed Exact Actuation shifters. But I haven't tried it yet. The width of an 11-speed cassette is only slightly wider than a 10-speed, so I would "expect" backing off the limit screws would allow for this. I use a long cage SRAM X0 with my 10-speed 11-36 setup.

My solution was to stock up on 10 speed parts so I haven't been forced into dealing with this yet.

 

[Alan W Dolbeer]

Yes, I see now. I should have bought the Gx type 2.1 10 speed long cage unit. The X9 was a 10 speed unit and worked fine with my Rival 22 shifters. Will think this over just a bit more but would rather use an Exact Actuation compatible derailleur if I can.

 

[ratz]

I would "expect" a 10-speed Exact Actuation rear derailleur to work with 11-speed Exact Actuation shifters. But I haven't tried it yet. The width of an 11-speed cassette is only slightly wider than a 10-speed, so I would "expect" backing off the limit screws would allow for this. I use a long cage SRAM X0 with my 10-speed 11-36 setup.

My solution was to stock up on 10 speed parts so I haven't been forced into dealing with this yet.

It doesn't; the steps are off just enough that you can never quite get the top and the bottom of the rang perfect. I tried for many hours on our trainers. 10speed was the last great haven for mixing and matching. But then I'm super picky after having the etap on the main bikes; you might be able to tolerate but it bugged me enough to be too much.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Any idea what RD people have been using which can work with the 11-36t cassette? I would have used the Rival Med WiFli but did not think it would work with a 36t cog. Thanks.

I'm using an Apex 1 RD with an 11-42T cassette and SRAM 1 x 11. It works with 11-36 and 11-42 tooth cassettes and uses Exact Actuation. I haven't tried it with double chain rings but when and if I can find some spare time to experiment in the garage, I plan to try a compact crankset with it. I'll let you know if it shifts properly throughout the range.

I already tried using that derailleur with my old 53/39 Rotor Q rings; I got it to work perfectly up and down the entire 11 speeds on the 39T ring, and from the 13T cog to the 36T cog with the 53T ring. Not sure if I had the chain length wrong, or if that larger Q ring and that wide cassette exceeded the capacity of the RD. Went back to 1x11 for now. I think there's a small possibility it will work with 50/34 and 11-42, but a very high possibility it will work with 50/34 and 11-36.

 

[Alan W Dolbeer]

I'm using an Apex 1 RD with an 11-42T cassette and SRAM 1 x 11. It works with 11-36 and 11-42 tooth cassettes and uses Exact Actuation. I haven't tried it with double chain rings but when and if I can find some spare time to experiment in the garage, I plan to try a compact crankset with it. I'll let you know if it shifts properly throughout the range.

I already tried using that derailleur with my old 53/39 Rotor Q rings; I got it to work perfectly up and down the entire 11 speeds on the 39T ring, and from the 13T cog to the 36T cog with the 53T ring. Not sure if I had the chain length wrong, or if that larger Q ring and that wide cassette exceeded the capacity of the RD. Went back to 1x11 for now. I think there's a small possibility it will work with 50/34 and 11-42, but a very high possibility it will work with 50/34 and 11-36.

I have experimented with a Rival 1 RD after buying slightly used complete Rival 1 Hyd groupset from a friend. I was not able to get reliable shifting with the 50/34 and 11-36t cassette. So the Rival 1 RD is now being stored as a spare for my Litespeed Gravel bike (also Rival 1).
Your comment that you are presently using a 1x setup on your V sounds interesting. I am using SRAM 1x on four bikes presently. Three MTBs and the Litespeed Gravel bike, and all with the 10-42 cassette. I have chosen the chainring size for each bike based on the low gear I desire, and the top gear has always been sufficient.
But for my needs, the V must have more than 420% gear range. So for now, it will stay 2x11. I do believe 1x drivetrains are here to stay and suspect that eventually there will be a 1x group available for road bikes that I would find suitable on my V20. Thanks.

 

[ReklinedRider]

I have experimented with a Rival 1 RD after buying slightly used complete Rival 1 Hyd groupset from a friend. I was not able to get reliable shifting with the 50/34 and 11-36t cassette. So the Rival 1 RD is now being stored as a spare for my Litespeed Gravel bike (also Rival 1).
Your comment that you are presently using a 1x setup on your V sounds interesting. I am using SRAM 1x on four bikes presently. Three MTBs and the Litespeed Gravel bike, and all with the 10-42 cassette. I have chosen the chainring size for each bike based on the low gear I desire, and the top gear has always been sufficient.
But for my needs, the V must have more than 420% gear range. So for now, it will stay 2x11. I do believe 1x drivetrains are here to stay and suspect that eventually there will be a 1x group available for road bikes that I would find suitable on my V20. Thanks.

Welcome.

I'm discouraged to hear that the 11-36 wouldn't work with the 50/34 rings. Was the Rival 1 RD a medium or long?

As above, my tinkering with 53/39 qrings gave an 'almost there' result. I suspect 11-42 will never work with double rings, but I still hold out hope using the 50/34 and the Apex 1 even though I accept that it may be an experiment doomed to failure no matter what range cassette I use, or what chain length, or whether round or oval rings.

I understand your reluctance to give up the upper and lower gears as currently required by 1x. Maybe one day.

The 42CR/11T cog 1 x that I have in place tops out at 30mph at 100 rpm, but that's more that enough for me....I currently cannot hold that speed on the flats for more than half a mile (after which i am toast and gotta coast ) so I don't need any more high end. Maybe one day on that too!

 

[Alan W Dolbeer]

Welcome.

I'm discouraged to hear that the 11-36 wouldn't work with the 50/34 rings. Was the Rival 1 RD a medium or long?

As above, my tinkering with 53/39 qrings gave an 'almost there' result. I suspect 11-42 will never work with double rings, but I still hold out hope using the 50/34 and the Apex 1 even though I accept that it may be an experiment doomed to failure no matter what range cassette I use, or what chain length, or whether round or oval rings.

I understand your reluctance to give up the upper and lower gears as currently required by 1x. Maybe one day.

The 42CR/11T cog 1 x that I have in place tops out at 30mph at 100 rpm, but that's more that enough for me....I currently cannot hold that speed on the flats for more than half a mile (after which i am toast and gotta coast ) so I don't need any more high end. Maybe one day on that too!

The Rival 1 groupset that I bought from a friend had a 40t chainring and 11-42 cassette. The Rival 1 RD is a long cage.

I went ahead and ordered the GX Type 2.1 10 speed long cage RD today. In theory it should function as the X9 did. I was happy with the X9, it just had some crash damage and I wanted to get it off the bike while I am making the change over to Rival 22 hyd disk brakes. Thanks to you guys for helping me realize the cable pull changed for GX 11sp vs 10sp. I figured I had missed something, which is why I asked the original question above.

I ran the gearing thru Shelden Browns gear inch calculator just before ordering the build in May 2015 and came up with 119.9 - 24.9 inches. Or around 481% gain was what I wanted. Think it was Robert Holler who recommended the X9 RD, and like I said, it worked just fine for me. I am moving from 25 to 28mm Conti GP4000s tires with the new wheelset so the gearing will get slightly taller, but should still be OK.

 

[Doug Kline]

I have experimented with a Rival 1 RD after buying slightly used complete Rival 1 Hyd groupset from a friend. I was not able to get reliable shifting with the 50/34 and 11-36t cassette.

Yes, the SRAM 1x derailleurs do not work with a 2x chainring. I learned that the hard way also with a SRAM Force 1. It uses Exact Actuation and works with large cassettes. Exactly what I wanted! Except it doesn't work in a 2x11 set up. Sigh.

Here's an explanation from SRAM:
https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/a...e-a-2x-front-crank-with-a-1x-rear-derailleur-