V20 Vs Slyway Ultra

[Bo6]

Just wondering if anyone has ridden a Slyway Ultra Gravel? It looks to be in the same class as a V20c. It would be fun the see how they compare. I see they now have frame kits available as noted on their web site.

 

[M.J]

"Slyway Ultra Gravel".
Is it actually called that? I know that everyone's definition of "gravel" is different, but that's one of the last bikes in the entire world that I would want to take on the gravel that I ride (on an upright).

 

[Bo6]

"Slyway Ultra Gravel".
Is it actually called that? I know that everyone's definition of "gravel" is different, but that's one of the last bikes in the entire world that I would want to take on the gravel that I ride (on an upright).

Yup he has a gravel version (in the picture). From what I see it has a slightly different head angle and room for 48mm tires. I think the video in the link is the Italian idea of gravel. https://www.strade-bianche.it/en/

 

[Randyc3]

Looks interesting. Something I would remove the stock front boom and then convert it to a FWD MBB.

 

[Beano]

I like it, looking at their website and going by what the designer has said he has taken the M5 CHR and made it better. The two gripes with the M5 CHR are that if you are below a certain x-seam you can have trouble putting your feet down when stopped. You also have to move the boom inwards to ride the bike with direct drive without the use of idlers - which potentially leads to the fork fouling the frame when turning. Chain line looks sweet and looks like the seat is much lower than on other high racer/dual 700cc recumbents. Something that has always appealed to me riding a Cruzbike is the seat height and that I can easily put both feet down.

Too much carbon though, would be worried about crashing and breaking something on the bike. And the wheelbase is 1250mm would that fit in a soft/hard case for travelling? Not sure.

I'd certainly spend the a weekend down in Italy though if I was ever there to test ride one.

 

[chicorider]

"Slyway Ultra Gravel".
Is it actually called that? I know that everyone's definition of "gravel" is different, but that's one of the last bikes in the entire world that I would want to take on the gravel that I ride (on an upright).

Agreed. There is zero chance that I would even think about taking that on a gravel ride. The main issue is the seat design (which is pretty much the same as that on a V20c). You start hitting potholes and washboards, and that seat is going to start bucking your whole body around. Suddenly, your bike is a frothing bull named Daisy Stomper, and you're just praying you last the full eight seconds.

I ride a V20c, but I ride gravel too. I'll show up to gravel rides and people will ask, "Where's your recumbent?" I just laugh and say, "Yeah, that thing would be less than useless here." I hope Slyway isn't trying to cash in on the gravel craze simply by tacking the word "Gravel" onto what is fundamentally meant to be a road bike.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I've never really ridden any other bent than a V20 so there is that. According to Slyway it seems to be pretty aero which is great. First off, the craftsmanship looks very nice.

With that said and not to be negative at all, some things about it don't appeal to me. Heel strike, a long chain, and tiller steering. I could learn to deal with heel strike in turns but 2 things I don't like about the chain are the extra weight, and dirt kicked up from the front tire is going to need a landing spot, and the chains on RWD bikes are right in the way. This is a big issue for me even though I am mostly a fair weather rider. Big chunks will bounce off a waxed chain, but dust can still fly into the gaps in the plate, and I can only imagine that riding it in gravel would cause thoughts of a dirty chain a lot more than what happens now. I am not interested in being worried about it more.

As for the tiller, I am not used to it, and I am not convinced that I'll be able to put as much power down on a RWD as I can on my V20.

 

[Bo6]

⁸

I've never really ridden any other bent than a V20 so there is that. According to Slyway it seems to be pretty aero which is great. First off, the craftsmanship looks very nice.

With that said and not to be negative at all, some things about it don't appeal to me. Heel strike, a long chain, and tiller steering. I could learn to deal with heel strike in turns but 2 things I don't like about the chain are the extra weight, and dirt kicked up from the front tire is going to need a landing spot, and the chains on RWD bikes are right in the way. This is a big issue for me even though I am mostly a fair weather rider. Big chunks will bounce off a waxed chain, but dust can still fly into the gaps in the plate, and I can only imagine that riding it in gravel would cause thoughts of a dirty chain a lot more than what happens now. I am not interested in being worried about it more.

As for the tiller, I am not used to it, and I am not convinced that I'll be able to put as much power down on a RWD as I can on my V20.

Good thoughts. I have a Q45 and have only ridden one other recumbent, a long wheelbase Burley. The long tiller made it twitchy, and it was hard to get started on a hill. Could not put as much power down while climbing, but it was more relaxed cruising on flats without the peddle steering.

I started this thread because I am planning to get a faster more road-oriented recumbent and this one made the short list. The V20 still seems the best option: no heel strike; shorted wheelbase; simpler drive line; threaded BB; well tested; great community with lots of information available.

Still a bit concerned about the laid-back angle on the V20, though I guess I could add spacers or a wedge to get to 30ish degrees. The lighter front end on the V20 vs S40 is a factor based on my observations on lighter front wheel and tire on my Q45. Also seem to do a lot of climbing and the lighter overall weight is a good thing. I noticed the V20 has no steering dampening in the headset, does this make it twitchy or does the different geometry make it stable at speed?

 

[JerseyJim]

Seeing this, I wonder if we've reached "peak recumbent".

I've been riding recumbents since 2001. My first bike was DIY short wheelbase RWD model designed by a high school shop teacher in Pennsylvania. He offered his plans and welded framesets under the name Bentech.

I'd been following the recumbent industry well before 2001. In fact, before I got the Bentech I also bought plans from Tom Traylor to build his FWD MBB...the same one that was the inspiration for the original Cruzbike Silvio and, of course, today's modern Cruzbike designs. I still have the original plans. I also considered a Python, which is an open source FWD MBB bike but with a center pivot design.

Of all of the recumbent designs and companies that have come and gone, the evolution of the commercially available 2 wheeled recumbent has pretty much stabilized on short wheelbase rear wheel drive and the front wheel drive Cruzbike. Demand for recumbents seems to have given way to trikes and velomobiles. Actually, now those designs are more what comes to mind when one says "recumbent" than the 2 wheeled machines.

So for fans of 2 wheeled recumbents, what is new and novel out there? The Slyway Ultra here iterates on the M5, but I guess it would be up to M5 riders to say if it is an improvement. I'm inclined to believe that regarding commercially available 2 wheeled recumbents, we've reached the development peak. Have we?

 

[Randyc3]

⁸

Good thoughts. I have a Q45 and have only ridden one other recumbent, a long wheelbase Burley. The long tiller made it twitchy, and it was hard to get started on a hill. Could not put as much power down while climbing, but it was more relaxed cruising on flats without the peddle steering.

I started this thread because I am planning to get a faster more road-oriented recumbent and this one made the short list. The V20 still seems the best option: no heel strike; shorted wheelbase; simpler drive line; threaded BB; well tested; great community with lots of information available.

Still a bit concerned about the laid-back angle on the V20, though I guess I could add spacers or a wedge to get to 30ish degrees. The lighter front end on the V20 vs S40 is a factor based on my observations on lighter front wheel and tire on my Q45. Also seem to do a lot of climbing and the lighter overall weight is a good thing. I noticed the V20 has no steering dampening in the headset, does this make it twitchy or does the different geometry make it stable at speed?

I first owned an S40 and it did take me awhile to adapt to the back angle of the V20c. A wedge spacer is one option for getting a more upright angle. Another is changing to the adjustable seat by Cruzbike or a Thor carbon seat. My final setup is the CB adjustable seat, curved slider boom and the stock chainstay(medium length). The medium length chainstay helps with my climbing although crank position/BB is bit low(was getting unstable on big climbs-10% or greater). No doubt the v20 is sensitive on descents, but Maria gave me some tips which helped. Imagine that, it is me and not the bike…..LOL.
Second the tiller twitchy comment. Found this to be true for the Bachetta I rode for a few weeks. In summary, I love the V20c and it is my main machine.

 

[chicorider]

Still a bit concerned about the laid-back angle on the V20, though I guess I could add spacers or a wedge to get to 30ish degrees. The lighter front end on the V20 vs S40 is a factor based on my observations on lighter front wheel and tire on my Q45. Also seem to do a lot of climbing and the lighter overall weight is a good thing. I noticed the V20 has no steering dampening in the headset, does this make it twitchy or does the different geometry make it stable at speed?

If you put the V20/V20c and the S40 next to each other in a Venn diagram, those circles will overlap a lot. Both are fast bikes (The V is a little faster). With enough practice, both are easy enough to ride (The S is a little easier). Both are pretty lightweight, for what they are, and climb well (The V is a little lighter, but not by much, while the S might be a slightly faster climber, since its more inclined seat gives the rider a bit more to push against. But on flats and descents, all things being equal, the V will pull away from the S). You can load both bikes with touring bags (though the S is more purpose built for touring, making it easier to outfit).

The S is better for social rides and group rides.

Under a fit rider, the V will knock out long, longer, and longest solo efforts like nobody's business.

I had deal-breaking recumbutt on the S40, but have never had such an issue on the V. That said, there are plenty of people who ride the S40 recumbutt free. It's an anatomy thing, rather than a bike design thing. If you are already riding a Q without recumbutt, chances are pretty good that you won't have that problem on the S40. But for overall, long distance comfort, the V is king for me (and I've owned a Quest, S30, S40, V20, and V20c).

I too do a lot of climbing, and have noticed that I have the least amount of wheel-slip with the V20/V20c--mostly with wet surfaces. It doesn't happen much, and it's easy enough to handle by shifting into an easier, lower-torque gear and a lighter pedal stroke until I'm through the damp. The S40 had the most wheel-slip, with the S30 right in between the two, which makes sense. I don't know why this is, and it seems counterintuitive, given that the steeper seat angle of the S40 should put a little more body weight over the front wheel. My guess is that that steeper seat angle allowed me to push a little harder on the pedals, creating enough added torque to make the tire a bit more likely to break free on wet or chattery road surfaces. If an S40 was my only bike, I imagine that this is something that I would eventually handle easily and intuitively.

I've never used a Viscoset because they weren't available when I started eight years ago, or for my early generation S40. And I am glad that it has helped many riders get through the CB learning curve over the last few years. But once the hands-feet-steering connection happens (the pedal stroke smooths out, and hands and arms finally relax and begin working with the feet, instead of against them) I imagine that a Viscoset becomes less and less necessary, eventually reaching a point where it isn't necessary at all.

You started with CB the smart way, with the Q45. I did it the dumb way, going right for the V20, never having ridden a recumbent, after 27 years on a diamond frame road bike. The learning curve was real, and lasted at least 1000 miles, with the first 100 of those being some of the scariest miles I've ever had on a bike. But through sheer stubbornness I made it over the curve, and the V has become the best bike I've ever owned. Totally worth the terror. But if you are already proficient (or better) on a Q45, a lot of that skill will carry over to an S40 or V20c. I realize now that I went for the V right away because its description best fit the kind of riding I had always done--spirited and quick over longer miles. I like to push paces. The Quest (the Q45's predecessor), though described as easier to learn with, just didn't fit my personal riding ethos, so I didn't go there. In between was the Silvio--what would become the S30 and S40--but I had read that some people didn't really like the front suspension, and it seemed a little suspect to me as well, which CB would confirm when they moved away from it a year later. So the V it was and still is. If you value speed, or have the equation Speed + Distance = Fun in your head or on a T-shirt, then the V is for you. But for everything else, the S40 is awfully hard to beat, barring the dreaded recumbutt that only afflicts some.

 

[Bo6]

If you put the V20/V20c and the S40 next to each other in a Venn diagram, those circles will overlap a lot. Both are fast bikes (The V is a little faster). With enough practice, both are easy enough to ride (The S is a little easier). Both are pretty lightweight, for what they are, and climb well (The V is a little lighter, but not by much, while the S might be a slightly faster climber, since its more inclined seat gives the rider a bit more to push against. But on flats and descents, all things being equal, the V will pull away from the S). You can load both bikes with touring bags (though the S is more purpose built for touring, making it easier to outfit).

The S is better for social rides and group rides.

Under a fit rider, the V will knock out long, longer, and longest solo efforts like nobody's business.

I had deal-breaking recumbutt on the S40, but have never had such an issue on the V. That said, there are plenty of people who ride the S40 recumbutt free. It's an anatomy thing, rather than a bike design thing. If you are already riding a Q without recumbutt, chances are pretty good that you won't have that problem on the S40. But for overall, long distance comfort, the V is king for me (and I've owned a Quest, S30, S40, V20, and V20c).

I too do a lot of climbing, and have noticed that I have the least amount of wheel-slip with the V20/V20c--mostly with wet surfaces. It doesn't happen much, and it's easy enough to handle by shifting into an easier, lower-torque gear and a lighter pedal stroke until I'm through the damp. The S40 had the most wheel-slip, with the S30 right in between the two, which makes sense. I don't know why this is, and it seems counterintuitive, given that the steeper seat angle of the S40 should put a little more body weight over the front wheel. My guess is that that steeper seat angle allowed me to push a little harder on the pedals, creating enough added torque to make the tire a bit more likely to break free on wet or chattery road surfaces. If an S40 was my only bike, I imagine that this is something that I would eventually handle easily and intuitively.

I've never used a Viscoset because they weren't available when I started eight years ago, or for my early generation S40. And I am glad that it has helped many riders get through the CB learning curve over the last few years. But once the hands-feet-steering connection happens (the pedal stroke smooths out, and hands and arms finally relax and begin working with the feet, instead of against them) I imagine that a Viscoset becomes less and less necessary, eventually reaching a point where it isn't necessary at all.

You started with CB the smart way, with the Q45. I did it the dumb way, going right for the V20, never having ridden a recumbent, after 27 years on a diamond frame road bike. The learning curve was real, and lasted at least 1000 miles, with the first 100 of those being some of the scariest miles I've ever had on a bike. But through sheer stubbornness I made it over the curve, and the V has become the best bike I've ever owned. Totally worth the terror. But if you are already proficient (or better) on a Q45, a lot of that skill will carry over to an S40 or V20c. I realize now that I went for the V right away because its description best fit the kind of riding I had always done--spirited and quick over longer miles. I like to push paces. The Quest (the Q45's predecessor), though described as easier to learn with, just didn't fit my personal riding ethos, so I didn't go there. In between was the Silvio--what would become the S30 and S40--but I had read that some people didn't really like the front suspension, and it seemed a little suspect to me as well, which CB would confirm when they moved away from it a year later. So the V it was and still is. If you value speed, or have the equation Speed + Distance = Fun in your head or on a T-shirt, then the V is for you. But for everything else, the S40 is awfully hard to beat, barring the dreaded recumbutt that only afflicts some.

Thanks for the detailed reply, some good thoughts. I plan to use the new bike for fast group rides that can have a few short steep (15%) hills and for some longer solo rides and climbs. I am almost able to keep up with the Q45 on the flatter shorter rides but have to work at least 20% harder than my old DF and have reached the traction limit of the Q45 on some hills. After reading your note I am again considering the S40, though I hate to give up the V20's lighter front end. There is a S40 near me so will go over and have a look. Wonder if there or any V20 on or near Vancouver Island?

 

[Robert Holler]

Heel strike. Thats about all I have to think of that.

 

[chicorider]

Thanks for the detailed reply, some good thoughts. I plan to use the new bike for fast group rides that can have a few short steep (15%) hills and for some longer solo rides and climbs. I am almost able to keep up with the Q45 on the flatter shorter rides but have to work at least 20% harder than my old DF and have reached the traction limit of the Q45 on some hills. After reading your note I am again considering the S40, though I hate to give up the V20's lighter front end. There is a S40 near me so will go over and have a look. Wonder if there or any V20 on or near Vancouver Island?

It sounds like you will become a multiple CB owner. The most I have had at any given time is three: a V20, S30, and S40. The V is my number one keeper, but it didn't take me long to see that having both the S30 and S40 was redundant. I decided to sell the S40 in stead of the S30 because of my recumbutt issue with the S40. I still have the V and S30, but even those two are pretty redundant, as the S30 is almost as fast and antisocial as the V. But I've always thought that a V20/V20c and S40 combo would be an awesome two-bike CB quiver.

 

[Midnight]

It sounds like you will become a multiple CB owner. The most I have had at any given time is three: a V20, S30, and S40. The V is my number one keeper, but it didn't take me long to see that having both the S30 and S40 was redundant. I decided to sell the S40 in stead of the S30 because of my recumbutt issue with the S40. I still have the V and S30, but even those two are pretty redundant, as the S30 is almost as fast and antisocial as the V. But I've always thought that a V20/V20c and S40 combo would be an awesome two-bike CB quiver.

If got around 2000 miles on the V and have thought I would benefit from having an S40 for groups and the hills. Never ridden one so the add may not make that much difference.

 

[xtalbike]

Just want to add that the V20c is not twitchy on downhills. I’ve hit 53 mph on smooth roads. Exhilarating yes, twitchy no.

 

[LarryOz]

Just wondering if anyone has ridden a Slyway Ultra Gravel? It looks to be in the same class as a V20c. It would be fun the see how they compare. I see they now have frame kits available as noted on their web site.

It looks very much like an M5 CHR - also likely chain, crank and heel strike issues. (= not fun)
I had an M5 CHR many years back (with custom seat and box) and it was pretty much as fast as my stock V20.
If it had been faster I might have kept it and suffered through the chain, crank and heel strike issues.
For my money V20C is the most comfy, best fitting, fastest, and most ridable in any condition over any other bent out there

 

[Robert Holler]

I has the misfortune of having to “build” an M5 last spring for someone who bought a frame set and when I say “build” I mean work around/solve the 100 issues that it had just to get the bike built. Not ready for prime time. The V20c is 100% a bike that a regular person can order, receive, and build and be riding within 1 day.

I could have built 5 stock Cruzbikes in the amount of time it took to deal with getting an M5 even close to rideable let alone dialed in.

These bikes are not even comparable from an actual user experience/ridability standpoint.

 

[Bo6]

I has the misfortune of having to “build” an M5 last spring for someone who bought a frame set and when I say “build” I mean work around/solve the 100 issues that it had just to get the bike built. Not ready for prime time. The V20c is 100% a bike that a regular person can order, receive, and build and be riding within 1 day.

I could have built 5 stock Cruzbikes in the amount of time it took to deal with getting an M5 even close to rideable let alone dialed in.

These bikes are not even comparable from an actual user experience/ridability standpoint.

Thanks Robert, good feedback on set up issues. Design aside the strongest features of Cruzbikes is the support and community available through this form. To build up a Slyway or other recumbent from a frame kit without this would be a much harder job. Planning a bike build this winter once I decide on V20 vs S40 and knowing support is available is comforting. Meanwhile the Q45 will see lots of miles and smiles.

 

[Damien]

The price is very attractive for the frameset—I’m in contact with the brand's owner. According to the catalog, it's 3125 Euro including all taxes, with shipping to Poland costing €155. The price is a game-changer. I would really love to be able to buy a Cruzbike in Europe without the shocking shipping or duty costs.