Tail box

[Robert Stewart]

Hi all,

I thought I'd start a thread about the possibilities of a tail box for the Silvio. John mentioned his plans for a tail box on the blog back in September of last year:
http://www.cruzbike.com/indexblog.html
and one purpose of this thread is to ask John how that project is coming along.

Another reason for posting is to gauge Silvio owners' interest in the idea. I only just fitted an expensive rack to my Silvio, but I know I would be near the front of the queue for a tail box if one were to be released.

The final reason for this thread is for the community to discuss what we would like to see in a design. So the question is, what are you after?

Personally, I like the look of the m5 'tail bags':
http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/Carbon_Specials/Tailbags/

They are sleek, and aerodynamic while still having a practical volume.

There are quite a few examples here too:
http://www.novosport.de/en/?Products:Boxes_%26amp%3B_tail_fairings

Anyway, what does everyone think?
Cheers,
Rob

 

[Mark B]

I really shouldn't speak too loud about tail boxes, because I don't know for a fact. I get the impression, though, that here in the States, most people are leaning more toward tail socks. Body socks were popularized by Easy Racers and the tail sock emerged as a spin off of that. Basically, all they are is a spandex sock that is stretched over a lightweight skeleton of aluminum, or fiberglass tubing. They provide much of the same aero advantages of the tailbox without adding much weight. I've taken the liberty of doctoring up a picture of Brian's to demonstrate.

Mark

 

[MrSteve]

Hi, Mr. Stewart

My name isn't, 'everyone' but I'll chime in!

I've been designing an integrated seat/tailbox in my head
and it looks a lot like the curvaceous black beauty you posted.

The compound-curved sides would help diminish the effect of side winds

Would I buy one?
No.

I'd build something that suits my needs exactly.

-Steve

 

[Hotdog]

Mark B wrote: I really shouldn't speak too loud about tail boxes, because I don't know for a fact. I get the impression, though, that here in the States, most people are leaning more toward tail socks. Body socks were popularized by Easy Racers and the tail sock emerged as a spin off of that. Basically, all they are is a spandex sock that is stretched over a lightweight skeleton of aluminum, or fiberglass tubing. They provide much of the same aero advantages of the tailbox without adding much weight.

The thing with tail socks is that while they provide much of the same aero advantages of a tail box, that's all they provide. Tail boxes are an aerodynamic aid and a luggage carrier, removing the need for seperate racks, panniers and so on for commuting/light touring. Some tail boxes are even lockable (I believe the M5 ones are) making them even more practical for commuting/errand running situations where the bike might need to be left in the open. And on a purely personal note, I think tail socks are generally a bit ugly whereas M5-style sleek, curvaceous tail boxes look great when fitted on a sleek performance bike, though perhaps that opinion is purely a European thing (I'm English, but living in Australia). Here's an M5 tailbox looking good on an M5 Carbon High Racer:

 

[Robert Stewart]

Yakmurph wrote: Hi, Mr. Stewart

My name isn't, 'everyone' but I'll chime in!

I've been designing an integrated seat/tailbox in my head
and it looks a lot like the curvaceous black beauty you posted.

The compound-curved sides would help diminish the effect of side winds

Would I buy one?
No.

I'd build something that suits my needs exactly.

-Steve

Hi Steve,
Call me Rob please. Mr Stewart sounds terribly formal.

It's a fair point about wanting to build something to suit your own needs, and I say good luck to you. Unfortunately I have neither the garage/workshop, nor the time to consider such a project. I also doubt I could ever produce something as good as those m5 boxes, so I'm looking forward to the official Cruzbike product.
Cheers,
Rob

Hotdog wrote:
The thing with tail socks is that while they provide much of the same aero advantages of a tail box, that's all they provide. Tail boxes are an aerodynamic aid and a luggage carrier, removing the need for seperate racks, panniers and so on for commuting/light touring. Some tail boxes are even lockable (I believe the M5 ones are) making them even more practical for commuting/errand running situations where the bike might need to be left in the open. And on a purely personal note, I think tail socks are generally a bit ugly whereas M5-style sleek, curvaceous tail boxes look great when fitted on a sleek performance bike, though perhaps that opinion is purely a European thing (I'm English, but living in Australia).

What he said. I'm not talking about a tail fairing (aero but no luggage), but a tail box (aero + luggage). Lockable is good. Plenty of volume is good. Light is always good obviously, but it's no good if you don't get practical luggage space too.
Cheers,
Rob

 

[Mark B]

I see your points on tailboxes and make no mistake, I'm not arguing with you about the practicality of a nicely done, light tailbox. I'm just saying here in the US, my impression is the tailsock and bodysocks are more the trend than tailboxes. If I do anything,I will probably homebrew some type of sock setup only because I can probably do it very cheaply. If John and Co. comes out with a sharp tailbox I like and can rationalize, I'll take a look. As of yet, I have resisted the urge to put any kind of fairings on my bikes.

Mark

 

[John Tolhurst]

We did a bit of work on the tail box, not an easy question. The best approach might be to take an M5 box and see how it might adapt.

 

[Kamatu]

johntolhurst wrote: We did a bit of work on the tail box, not an easy question. The best approach might be to take an M5 box and see how it might adapt.

Fabrication issues or did you have problems with aero?

 

[Hotdog]

Kamatu wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: We did a bit of work on the tail box, not an easy question. The best approach might be to take an M5 box and see how it might adapt.

Fabrication issues or did you have problems with aero?

Based purely on having seen pictures of the Silvio and various M5 bikes and their corresponding tailboxes one issue might be the way the rear triangle of the Silvio reaches almost to the top of the seat back. That might require a somewhat larger or at least differently shaped central channel, and possibly a very different mounting arrangement. Nothing insurmountable given enough time to check out a few of the tailbox designs already out there, think over the Silvio specific issues and experiment with some prototypes, but I can see how it might well take a while to come up with a really slick solution.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Kamatu wrote: Fabrication issues or did you have problems with aero?

All of the above. I developed a shape that looked good and could be made from a curved surface. Then I added up how much work would be required to bring it to a decent production product and thought twice. Fabrication issues, aero issues, practicality issues, and mounting issues. Still have the prototyping and drawings, but thoughts have diverted to address other questions at present. No current plans to pursue the tailbox.

 

[John Tolhurst]

Of these: http://www.novosport.de/en/?Products:Boxes_%26amp%3B_tail_fairings

I feel the
Box "Sport", large
and
Race fairing

options have a forward edge and overall shape that seems to relate to the Silvio seat and general design theme.

 

[Peder Torgersen]

johntolhurst wrote: Of these: http://www.novosport.de/en/?Products:Boxes_%26amp%3B_tail_fairings

I feel the
Box "Sport", large
and
Race fairing

options have a forward edge and overall shape that seems to relate to the Silvio seat and general design theme.

Has anyone tested one of these products?
Here is also a cheaper tailbox would one of these fit on Silvio or Sofrider/Freerider?
http://www.cippsites.com/Merchant4/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AETRUNK2&Category_Code=TRUNKS&Store_Code=ANGLE

Peder

 

[Robert Stewart]

Not without extending the seat on the Silvio I'm afraid (see the thread lower down). I looked into this box a while back and emailed the company to ask them what they thought. We agreed that the problem was its height. If it were to hang from the Silvio seat, it would rest on the back wheel. Compare the Silvio seat height above the wheel with bikes pictured with that box and you will see the difference.
Cheers,
Rob