Break the 60KM/HR record

[Enid]

GCN has asked what kind of recumbent content we would like to see. They asked to post comments below the video (search for GCN recumbent). There is a separate thread on their coverage of recumbents.

I would suggest that they get one of their riders on a Cruzbike Magic, train, and go to the velodrome in Mexico where those records are set and break the "magical" 60KM/HR record. I believe that their riders are strong enough to do this. Brams has gotten some riders of comparable strength pretty close to that record at sea level.

The more of you who comment, the closer we can get to doing it. Wired did a segment on the 1 hour world record, and maybe they would help with the finances.

 

[ed72]

Would take 420+ watts

No way

 

[RojoRacing]

Ed is right, I'm arguably about as fast as their stronger presenters(not the Spaniard with the mustache) and 37 mph seems pretty far fetched for any production-based build of a bent. You'd need an actual current or just retired top level pro racer to attempt such a ride and good luck with that.

 

[Enid]

"Bradley Wiggins, who, in 2015, pedaled 54.526 kilometers (33.881 miles) to set the current men's record, is estimated to have averaged 440 watts."

That is correct. That is what I'm suggesting we get them to do. It is a great publicity stunt for GCN.

Why 420 watts? Put the seat at 10 degrees, do some wind tunnel fine-tuning, throw disc wheels on, and those custom low car tires and it should be more like 380 watts, right? I'm not sure how accurate these calculators are.

 

[Enid]

*low crr not car

 

[ElyDave]

Change some of the tubes out for carbon, single big chain ring and cog, no gears, no brakes, narrower handlebars etc. All saving weight and as aero as possible.

Do those calculators account for differing bike geometry?

 

[trplay]

You guys have me confused. You are aware there is already unfaired recumbent records for the hour? The current uci rules record has been beaten by unfaired recumbents several times with hour averages nearing 57km hr. They even beat the unrecognized /changed/ignored record by the UCI of Cris Boardman WR by just a tiny bit. Have I become outdated ? What am I missing?

 

[Enid]

@trplay--the only thing you are missing is that there hasn't been someone on a recumbent who can hit the 80% (?) of Cris Boardman's effort. Now that GCN is covering recumbents, there is an opening to get such a person on one. They are the one commercial group with access to such people. Why wouldn't the 4th place rider in the Tour de France want to set a world record?

 

[trplay]

I'm still not getting it. Unless I dreamed it unfaired Recumbents have beaten Boardman's record. And nobody cared as it is a different class of bike. The "golden record is the "uci rules record". The Pros care about that record under a stringent set of rules where all are equal but the human. The concept is the fastest "rider" not fastest bike. If speed is the objective why not just use e-bikes?

 

[DavidCH]

not the Spaniard with the mustache

Yep... he's a bit special.

Si. El es un poco especial
(Cuando cabalga, el sol brilla)

 

[DavidCH]

why not just use e-bikes?

Ebikes cheat because there is an external power source.

The beauty is where man can extend himself thru engineering to be one of the most efficient forms of transport. Ditto. It's all about man power. So I expect the hour record will be well broken.

Forget GCN rider ... sponsor the guy riding in the world speed record to ride magic. And get GCN to report the attempt.

Most riders would be privileged to have a go.

UCI wont accept it but perhaps another organisation might

 

[DavidCH]

and it should be more like 380 watts, right?

Not sure... more aero less power. @LarryOz should be able to confirm.

 

[Enid]

I'm still not getting it. Unless I dreamed it unfaired Recumbents have beaten Boardman's record. And nobody cared as it is a different class of bike. The "golden record is the "uci rules record". The Pros care about that record under a stringent set of rules where all are equal but the human. The concept is the fastest "rider" not fastest bike. If speed is the objective why not just use e-bikes?

Humans have this funny thing about round numbers. Everyone is making a big deal out of 60km/h. 59.9km/h would be a ho hum record, but 0.1km/h faster and wow!! A round number.

 

[trplay]

Here is as close as I can find to the current records (wikipedia). As you can see beating the UCI unified hour record is already bested. Besting it again would draw as much attention as someone beating it on a DF again using the Boardman rules or someone on a streamliner. The interesting question is what is the watts difference between the two classes and that answer is already available using Wiggins' and Bonneteau's stats. I would much rather see a retiring Pro tackle something like Strassers record in RAAM.
The current hour records are:

• Streamlined recumbent bicycle (bicycle and rider enclosed in an aerodynamic shell): Francesco Russo of Switzerland set a new World Record by covering 91.556 km (56.89 miles) in one hour at the DEKRA test track in Germany on 2 August 2011 [19] This record is approved by the WHPVA. On 19 July 2009 Sam Whittingham at the Ford Motor Company's 5-mile oval test track in Romeo, Michigan achieved 90.598 km, This record was approved by the IHPVA and WHPVA committees) In 2008, Damjan Zabovnik, achieved 87.123 km [20]
• Non-streamlined Recumbent Bicycle (no shell, only disk wheels, and rider sitting on top frame). The best mark was achieved by Aurelien Bonneteau, a French rider at the Bordeaux velodrome. He rode a bicycle with a nearly horizontal seat to allow his back to lay flat, two standard sized wheels, an elliptical chainring, and with shortened pedal arms to reduce the air volume swept out by his legs. His distance was 56.696 km (35.229 miles) on Wednesday July 16, 2014 [21][22]
• UCI "Best human effort": Chris Boardman, 1996, 56.375 km (35.03 miles) [23]
• UCI hour record: Ondřej Sosenka, 2005, 49.700 km (30.882 miles) [24]
• UCI unified record: Bradley Wiggins, 2015, 54.526 kilometres (33.881 mi) [25]

 

[ed72]

My comment about 420+ watts did not apply to velomobiles or streamliners. I've never been in a velomobile; however, I bet I could do 60 km in an hour on a track in one of things within a week of learning to ride it and it probably would be a zone 2 effort in a velo.

I tried over the years to estimate the CdA of the fastest unfaired recumbents and to be honest, 420 watts is a low figure in my mind to average if one wants to travel 60km in an hour at sea level using any of the fastest recumbents. Take it to Mexico city and heat the velodrome up (after renovations), 60Km would be very doable. The air density RHO could be as low as 0.85 kg/m3 under the right conditions and then, it would only take around 310-320 watts for the hour (at the rear wheel, not pedals). I am CERTAIN plenty of young bent riders could do that, this 60 year old isn't too far off that power figure.....except altitude and my lungs don't agree. (That was a joke)

 

[ed72]

The current uci rules record has been beaten by unfaired recumbents several times with hour averages nearing 57km hr.

Math is funny.

Going from 57 to 60 km/h isn't small potatoes. what is it....to the third power.....anyway

Supposedly, 360 watts was required for Aurelien Bonneteau's record on the M5. I think one could argue this but let's take it at face value because it was reported. The M5 CdA was reported to be around 0.130-135 IIRC but that would make sense based upon performance. To get to 60 km on that bike, you're looking at around 420 watts. That is not an easy number to make in the inherently inferior supine cycling position. Just plucking a TdF rider and throwing them onto a recumbent won't get you 420 watts.

 

[ed72]

A better focus for GCN would be octogenarians on trikes in Florida with side bars to the semi-old farts like Larry or Kent Polk. The possibility of getting a top pro onto a recumbent and more importantly taking the time to learn and acclimate to it is well neigh impossible. Head to head based upon performance is a losing a battle. Increasing market share due to older riders looking for an option, that would sell. In short, you want to ride as you get old? Get laid back.

Me? I'm getting me a velo.

 

[Barefoot Biker]

probably one of the few people who has a data point on how many watts it requires to sustain 37mph on magic .... it took me 390 watts. i'm still learning the bike and i've only done that once so far. it was outside, so lots of variables, but there is the ball park.

 

[ed72]

probably one of the few people who has a data point on how many watts it requires to sustain 37mph on magic .... it took me 390 watts. i'm still learning the bike and i've only done that once so far. it was outside, so lots of variables, but there is the ball park.

Do you know what the temp and dewpoint was during your testing? 37 mph on 390 watts is a good data point.

This implies 0.120-125 m2 for Magic's CdA unless there was a slope or wind. That is one slick, fast tool. Wow.

And, getting to 60 kmh from 37 mph would only take around another 10-12 watts, just over 400.

Does anyone know of a bent rider coming close to 400 watts for an hour? To be honest, this is into the stratosphere even on an upright. I have known several road racers (Cat 1 and 2) in the 370-390 watts FTP but that is it. A 70 kg rider with 400+ watts is getting well into TdF stage winner territory. RoJo probably has the highest FTP of any bent rider that I have read about.

If I got me one of those Magics, I still would not get the KoM on my local 10 mile TT. I'd only average 34 mph. The current guy is 35.5 mph but I think he motorpaces it. When my velo arrives, I'll fix his derrieire.

 

[Barefoot Biker]

Do you know what the temp and dewpoint was during your testing?

No. I would say - refer to Larry's data to compute CdA and go from there. Either way, it's enough watts that no one on this thread will hit it for an hour, certainly not me, the sprinter.