Flying Jim
Member
I've finished my 100 mile trial and wanted to share my thoughts and hear about yours. How was your 100 mile trial? What was great and what was not so great? Where are you going to go with your bike?
2021 Q45 100 Mile Trial
- Thread starter Flying Jim
- Start date
Very nicely done Jim. I’ve just passed 200 miles on my new Q45 and echo most of your thoughts. Actually I knew I would keep it after 20 miles. After 4 years on a recumbent trike the level of engagement is a revelation.
My learning process is slower than yours. I’m past the death grip phase but still have to consciously relax. Working on riding one handed is helping.
I hope to be able to comfortably ride rail trails. I’ve ordered Rene Herse tires and I’m looking forward to the upgrade.
I may need a lower first gear but right now I have to climb faster than 4 mph to balance. My limit seems to be 7-8% grade on pavement. I’m not going to change anything until my strength and technique plateau.
Keep the videos coming.
My learning process is slower than yours. I’m past the death grip phase but still have to consciously relax. Working on riding one handed is helping.
I hope to be able to comfortably ride rail trails. I’ve ordered Rene Herse tires and I’m looking forward to the upgrade.
I may need a lower first gear but right now I have to climb faster than 4 mph to balance. My limit seems to be 7-8% grade on pavement. I’m not going to change anything until my strength and technique plateau.
Keep the videos coming.
Donald Harter
Member
After 55 years of DF cycling I expected a more challenging acclimation to the Q. Low expectations helped. I did follow the recommendations to a T. Doing a 50 mile ride Friday. Expect no sore neck and numb hands.
Opik
Well-Known Member
I like the seat change and tires. With their current form, I think Q45 and S40 overlap too much
In the stock form. I would like Q45 to go the gravel route and more on bad roads with rocks, mud and sand. So probably a more off road stock tire and a comfortable seat. Maybe work with Catrike, Bachetta, ICE, or Azub so there are cross compatibility around the mesh seats
In the stock form. I would like Q45 to go the gravel route and more on bad roads with rocks, mud and sand. So probably a more off road stock tire and a comfortable seat. Maybe work with Catrike, Bachetta, ICE, or Azub so there are cross compatibility around the mesh seats
I agree with you @Opik . I have a 2017 S40 and the new Q45. I just crossed over 100 mi mark on the Q45, although 85 mi were on the trainer with Trainerroad.
Here is my impression...Likes:
1. Cushy suspension.
2. Adjustable back
3. Enough clearance for bigger tires
4. 1x
5. Mountain brake levers a whole lot better than the Sram Rival brifer paired with TRP Spyre disc brakes
6. Kickstand.
7. Jon @Tortue 's wheel stopper device.
8. Thru axle is better than QR. Now I agree after having comparisons.
Things changed or would like to change:
1. Stock tires not big enough. I changed them to Panaracer Gravelking SS 48mm. Really nice.
2. As @Flying Jim said, the stock 1x is not high or low enough. I had to change the front ring to 38t in order to climb up the 12-14% grade hills in my neighborhood just so that I can get home. Then with 38t front, it's not fast enough (only up to about 20 mph with 38/11). I am thinking of changing the set up to Eagle GX 12 speed with Sunrace 11-51 cassette and put the 42 ring back on. So I can climb with 42-51 and go fast with 42-11 without changing the wheel to XD.
3. Stock seat pan is not wide or big enough. I guess the only reference I have is the Thor Easy on my S40. That feels much better. I think I am kind of stuck on that stock seat for now. The seat pan can be so much better if they just make it a little wider and longer... probably only cost $0.50 more in materials.
Overall, Q45 (more like 50) is great for bumpy trail ride or as a commuter. I tried riding my S40 on trails with 38mm Schwalbe G-one tires... it's ok...but very jarring and my skull doesn't like the constant bumps.
I also wouldn't ride S40 for commuting to work... Q45 has better visibility and feels more agile as well. It just doesn't go that fast. That's my thought so far comparing S40 to Q45.
Michael
jond
Zen MBB Master
Does any other company have a marketing offer like it. Not to mention the vendetta guarantee.
No it’s not too good to be true. It’s unerring faith in your product. What a wonderful company. Accessible smart and kind. Greatly appreciated.
This ethos comes from the top down.
Cruzbike .....much more than a bike. Thankyou.
No it’s not too good to be true. It’s unerring faith in your product. What a wonderful company. Accessible smart and kind. Greatly appreciated.
This ethos comes from the top down.
Cruzbike .....much more than a bike. Thankyou.
I agree with you @Opik . I have a 2017 S40 and the new Q45. I just crossed over 100 mi mark on the Q45, although 85 mi were on the trainer with Trainerroad.
Likes:
1. Cushy suspension.
2. Adjustable back
3. Enough clearance for bigger tires
4. 1x
5. Mountain brake levers a whole lot better than the Sram Rival brifer paired with TRP Spyre disc brakes
6. Kickstand.
7. Jon @Tortue 's wheel stopper device.
8. Thru axle is better than QR. Now I agree after having comparisons.
Things changed or would like to change:
1. Stock tires not big enough. I changed them to Panaracer Gravelking SS 48mm. Really nice.
2. As @Flying Jim said, the stock 1x is not high or low enough. I had to change the front ring to 38t in order to climb up the 12-14% grade hills in my neighborhood just so that I can get home. Then with 38t front, it's not fast enough (only up to about 20 mph with 38/11). I am thinking of changing the set up to Eagle GX 12 speed with Sunrace 11-51 cassette and put the 42 ring back on. So I can climb with 42-51 and go fast with 42-11 without changing the wheel to XD.
3. Stock seat pan is not wide or big enough. I guess the only reference I have is the Thor Easy on my S40. That feels much better. I think I am kind of stuck on that stock seat for now. The seat pan can be so much better if they just make it a little wider and longer... probably only cost $0.50 more in materials.
Overall, Q45 (more like 50) is great for bumpy trail ride or as a commuter. I tried riding my S40 on trails with 38mm Schwalbe G-one tires... it's ok...but very jarring and my skull doesn't like the constant bumps.
That's my thought so far comparing S40 to Q45.
Michael
Thank you for all of this great input. We can look into a stock tire width bump - sadly in the "era of covid" the specifications on stock bikes are going to be taking a "it is what we can get in less than a year" approach - so these are times when half of a batch of bikes might be one spec and the other half have different tires/levers/who knows depending on what is available.
When certain parts are (literally) 500 DAYS backorder - with no guarantee that they will even be there in that amount of time - I have to look at any and all alternatives. This will not change for two to three years IMHO.
Jim
Appreciate your reviews and info sharing, I'm Owner of metabike (standard rear wheel drive recumbent) for few years. looking forward for new recumbent with rear suspension and trying to understand deeply Q45 off road capability. from your perspective do the CB Q45 may handle any off road trail such as standard rear wheel drive recumbent? or the FWD is limited in compare to other recumbent in terms of stability in general and stability over obstacles, steering, comfort, climbing off road trail.
Will appreciate your replay . thx a lot
super slim
Zen MBB Master
Excellent review!
Could you please take some photos of the mesh seat, mounting details, and make and model of the seat, as I think this is perfect for Off road, AND commuting to work, on rough bike paths!!!!
Upgrading the rear spring only suspension to an air shocker would further improve the ride over dirt corrugations!
Flying Jim
Member
Seat : https://bacchettabikes.com/product/recurve-seat/
Bolt: Aviation Bolt AN4-72A (or get threaded rod from hardware store) : https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an4.php
The bottom bracket is one of the CruzBike brackets - drill holes through the bachata seat pan and use the CruzBike mounting hardware.
The Rear bracket uses the CruzBike attachment, an AN4-72A bolt (or threaded rod which is how I started), two spacers make from metal tubing.
That's it.
Bolt: Aviation Bolt AN4-72A (or get threaded rod from hardware store) : https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an4.php
The bottom bracket is one of the CruzBike brackets - drill holes through the bachata seat pan and use the CruzBike mounting hardware.
The Rear bracket uses the CruzBike attachment, an AN4-72A bolt (or threaded rod which is how I started), two spacers make from metal tubing.
That's it.
Flying Jim
Member
Off road downhill I've had no problems. Uphill has challenges. Front wheel spin demands technique and off-road tires. I don't have enough varied trail experience yet to give a full review. I plan to do some camping later this year in the mountains around Big Bear CA to get more experience. For the trails around my house (which don't get too steep) it has been a dream come true since I upgraded tires and put on a smaller front chainring. I had to practice, practice, practice to go through some of the trickier parts of the trail (tight u-turns, deep ruts, small ditches, etc) but I get better and better with each ride. As you know, there is no body english on a recumbent so mountain biking has inherit limitations on one. The front wheel drive, while great for power, has issues with front wheel spin in loose dirt that must be learned. Once a wheel spin starts you lose steering authority so you have to give smooth power up hills to avoid spin. Since I've never ridden a suspended rear-wheel drive recumbent I can't compare the climb issues between the two. Hope this helps. Let us know your experience.
Jim
Thx a lot for your detailed replay
The information is very valuable. I'm leaving in Israel near by Jerusalem which is hilly area and most of the time I'm biking off road on my Metabike recumbent w/o rear suspension. The wheels setup is 29" rear and 20" front looks a bit strange (attached picture) but working well except the shocks transferring to my back . Based on your experience seems that going uphill mainly on dirt may result in spin in loose and not like RWD in FWD you may lose your control on steering and transferring power from pedal to wheel, seems even a little dangerous on some trails. This point have been mention in other report as well and makes a sense since the body weight in FWD going uphill is shifted back and I'm wondering if learning curve will eliminate this issue or it is intrinsic character of the Q45 and overall FWD bikes? as alternative I'm
Examining an option of the Azub six recumbent. Anyway since I'm still on data collection process before making decision will appreciate if you can share your continues experience especially off road experience on various types of trails. Thx have nice week Doron
Attachments
benphyr
Guru-me-not
Highly personal and subjective opinions:
Azub six sounds like it would be similar to what you have. For your use case of primarily off-road I would lean towards rwd of which the Azub seems as though it could be one of the best for off-road.
Cruzbikes in general are good for paved roadways with light duty off-road such as rail trails with crushed limestone or similar surface and the occasional patch of packed surface. Deep, loose gravel is pretty hard on any bike but really is not so great on a Cruzbike.
Generally Fwd does have good agility. The wheel slip often mentioned is when you are going very slowly up steep hills so only results in stopping and not being able to start until turning around or walking to lower gradient not loss of control.
I have spun out many rotations in a row and rarely lose balance. More often I have to put a foot down because I am virtually stopped.
Azub six sounds like it would be similar to what you have. For your use case of primarily off-road I would lean towards rwd of which the Azub seems as though it could be one of the best for off-road.
Cruzbikes in general are good for paved roadways with light duty off-road such as rail trails with crushed limestone or similar surface and the occasional patch of packed surface. Deep, loose gravel is pretty hard on any bike but really is not so great on a Cruzbike.
Generally Fwd does have good agility. The wheel slip often mentioned is when you are going very slowly up steep hills so only results in stopping and not being able to start until turning around or walking to lower gradient not loss of control.
I have spun out many rotations in a row and rarely lose balance. More often I have to put a foot down because I am virtually stopped.
Thx
In my current process of data collection and since I would to keep biking on recumbent, mainly off road, options are really limited and each recumbent type has its limitation riding off road. Usually I'm not in extremes scale of trails (will avoid technical trails anyway) but from time to time I'm cycling in single tracks with challenging topography (include steep uphill trails). MTB DF frame are easier as off road option but highly exposed to injuries and recumbent makes the cycling a bit difficult but reduce the chance of significant injuries. My recumbent makes me slower but safer. With my recumbent I’m losing from time to time traction but usually be able to start and continue biking even on steep hills.
My bike set up have been changed to 20” front wheel instead of 26” to make distance/time to ground shorter and it gives me some better control and I feel safer. Regarding the Q45 you made the point clearer about potential slipping and way of recovery.
The concept of FWD with dynamic boom is interesting and resolves some RWD recumbent issues so I’m trying to go deeper before making the decision about next bike.
I’m trying to get better feeling about the conditions in which it will occur? If the Q45 front wheel will be changed to wider one (2”) will it make any significant change?
Do you see any learning curve that makes the response under such conditions more efficient?
Will appreciate to get some more details.
Thx a lot Doron
Thx looks like interesting option. what about climbing? Usually I'm riding with standard DF MTB guys and trying not to be too slower in compare to them.
Seems that your model is not available already they have the PHOENIX which is 26" wheels and new lineup of crank-forward bikes.
Dwight Brown
New Member
Jim, I saw your videos and I love to see more things pop up when I type CruzBike into youtube! Based on the terrain, I can tell you are in Southern California (that trail looks like the Conejo Valley)... where do you live? Any chance of a test ride if I'm in the area?
Flying Jim
Member
I'm in Ramona, CA - drop me a message if you're in the area.
