a Trail Quest, or Q650b ...

[rfneep]

Hi. I’ve been following the forum for the past few years, and thought it was time make a small contribution. Please excuse the long narrative.

My back story (skip if you wish). I’ve kept a V2 Q451 Quest, converted to a Q559, out at my in-laws on the west coast for the past two years, and have gotten out there a few weeks each year. It’s been fun to learn to ride a MBB bike, and it has been useful for short day trips in northern CA. However, the longer the rides, the more the bike has felt, for want of a better word, mushy. The bike response seems soft when accelerating, and the bike feels a bit loose when pedaling hard. It's all subjective, of course, but the experience left me somewhat ambivalent about the Cruzbike. In addition, I’ve not been a big fan of the Quest cockpit; the seat and handlebars tend to lead to a somewhat cramped feeling in legroom.

So, I have concentrated on stickbike recumbents at home in the Midwest, both a 26/20 Volae Century and a 650c Volae Team. Nice bikes. However, on some long (> 50 mile) trail trips here at home I noticed more and more that the only physical action was in my legs and I had very little upper body engagement. I thought it was time to revisit a MBB bike at home.

I found a used Quest (V3 Q559) frame and decided to do some mods to change to my liking for use on crushed limestone trails and for commuting in town. A main design feature was that it is not meant to be speed bike like a Silvio or V, but a reasonable comfort, long distance bike and an in-town bike. That means an upright seat angle of 40 deg or so.

My approach was to use up parts I had laying around and not go overboard in spending a lot of $ but concentrate on functionality. Here is what I came up with:

my Trail Quest, or Q650b

Version 1: original try, using mostly spare parts: (I hope the picture comes through!)



Some details of differences from a stock Q559:

Wheels: 650b or 27.5 in Mavic CrossOne wheels (entry level at sale price))
Tires: Panaracer Pacenti Pari-Moto with Gravel King casing 27.5 x 42mm, or 42-584
Rear shock: Kind Shock AR-551 dual chamber air shock
Seat: Thorseat Carbon Easy (GS) Medium size
Seat brackets: Lower: simple homemade Al plates with Volae rubber washers for seat attachment
Seat brackets: Upper: Volae rubber washers plus Al plate to mount standard Quest seat rear brackets; Al extender plate to give full 35 - 45 deg adjust range
Seat Pad: Volae Carbon Comfort Dual Density seat pad; size Large
Handlebars: Soma Portola Dirt Drop bars, 53 cm width.
Shifters: SRAM 10-speed TT500 bar-end shifter
Brakes levers: Tektro RL520 long-reach aero levers
1 x 10 drivetrain: derailleur SRAM X.9; 11-36 cassette

Altogether, I think it cuts a nice look.

Now, how does it ride? Very nice! It does not feel at all like the V2 Q I have at the in-laws. The bike feels tight and responsive, and rides extremely smoothly. In the 50 miles or so that I’ve tested it so far (it has been winter here until recently …) it has felt as fast as my high-racer, and appears to climb better. It seems so smooth that you easily go over rough roads and hence can keep more speed (but I am not a speed biker by any measure). I don’t know what to attribute the differences to, but at least some combo of: the big wheels, wide supple tires, suspension-free fork, and stiffer front end, somewhat more laid back position, or all of the above. The cockpit feels a lot more open with better leg clearance than the stock system. I obviously need to get more miles on it, but so far, so good!

Just thought I'd point out how versatile the Quest platform is and how relatively easy it is to change it to your liking. Now, time to get more riding in as the weather improves here.

Ray

 

[castlerobber]

It does not feel at all like the V2 Q I have at the in-laws. The bike feels tight and responsive, and rides extremely smoothly. In the 50 miles or so that I’ve tested it so far (it has been winter here until recently …) it has felt as fast as my high-racer, and appears to climb better. It seems so smooth that you easily go over rough roads and hence can keep more speed (but I am not a speed biker by any measure). I don’t know what to attribute the differences to, but at least some combo of: the big wheels, wide supple tires, suspension-free fork, and stiffer front end, somewhat more laid back position, or all of the above.

Very nice, indeed!

I converted my Quest 451 to 507 a couple of months ago, and had similar results. Average speed is up 1.5 mph, and still improving. I still come in from rides marveling at what a different bike the Q has become. The mushy feel and loose handling you mention were part of the reason I'd intended to sell the Q last summer, but those are both gone.

What's the lower silver clamp on the TFT for, between the boom quick-release and the BB?

 

[rfneep]

The lower clamp is there to stiffen the boom assembly a bit. On the Cruzbike video about adjusting the QX100, Robert noted that the front derailleur cable stop slightly pinched the TFT and may have to be loosened to move the boom. So I shaved the lip off a Salsa seat clamp and put it there. It does seem to clamp the boom. So I figured there's no harm in keeping it there for more stiffness. Just tried to not tighten it too much.

I'm not sure that is appropriate for a V2. I recall earlier posts about the boom OD being smaller than the TFT ID, so that there was a measurable gap inside the boom assembly. TheV3 does not seem to have that, so a slight clamping force directly engages the sliding boom without deflection of the outer tube.

I read your Q507 description with interest, and it helped motivate some of this. I went with the 650b wheels because I was interested in the effects of larger and wider tires on limestone trails.

Ray

 

[ratz]

Removing the front shock and dual drive will generally make the bike fast, lighter, and more responseive. Enter the qx100.

We see a similar difference to you on the Quickr even though it still has 451 wheels and only duranos. Unlike out other quests that one cruises at 17 and can sprint but is equally at home on the limestone trails.

Add in the modified boom. And you very close to a Silvio 1.0 and yes that shows how versitle the frame is.

Since this new ride profile is more to you liking. You can get most of that on your other quest just by putting a different front wheel on it that will make it more nimble except when really laying on the power.

Great tale. And great mod!

 

[Emeljay]

And your seat is back more on the frame allowing the bottom bracket to be up higher (more aero) with higher angle seat back (less aero? but other advantages - comfort, sight seeing,etc). I've been thinking of doing this with my X100 steering mod project. Also looking at some of the other components you used as I have been thinking of new handlebars, shifters, on my X(perimental)100.

 

[rfneep]

So, with the first tests under my belt, and a feeling that this is a keeper, I upgraded some parts to make it more functional.

Version 2: Q650b Drivetrain upgrade




Changes from Version 1 (and reasons):

Drivetrain: change to 1 x 11 SRAM 11-speed road group
- Provides an extra lower gear for hills and supports brifter shifters/brakes. The original bar-end shifters required too much hand movement to shift.
Brake/shifters: SRAM Rival 22 set - the left is used for brake only - for now.
Derailleur: SRAM Rival 1 long cage
Cassette: Sunrace 11-42t
Brakes: TRP Spyre road disc brakes - needed short pull brakes and these are nicer than the usual BB7s
Handlebar: Origin-8 Gary-2 drop bar. Wider flats on top and longer reach to provide more legroom and slightly lower position compared to the original Soma Portola.

The conversion to the SRAM Rival brake/shifter makes a world of difference in ride convenience. I tend to shift a lot, and having the shifting available without moving your hand is much nicer than reaching for the bar-end shifter repeatedly. The resulting gear range is nice and wide; I do not anticipate a need for more than a single chainring up front. The TRP brakes are far nicer than the original BB5's; much quieter and smoother, and easier to align.

I’m not sure I’ve hit on the best handlebar solution yet; the Gary 2 bar feels a little too wide for me, while the Portola's reach is a bit short. I will fiddle with this as the weather improves and more riding time is available. There are a few more options worth trying. I'll report on that when I reach a final decision.

My biggest concern now is that more time on this Q650b will have me casting more and more looks towards a Silvio as a complement to this trail bike….

Ray

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Very very nice Q, Ray. That's the first adaption of a Volea hard shell on a Q I've seen, good job.

This Q Looks like it will glide over chip seal and potholes like silk.

 

[rfneep]

Rick, thanks for the comments. Just to clarify: the seat pictured is a Thorseat carbon Easy model, not a Volae Carbon Comfort. However, the mount holes in my Thorseat are exactly the same as those in a stock Volae seat, so the Volae fits readily to the bike. I have a Volae seat here also, and have fitted it on the Quest as a test. The difference between the Thorseat and the Volae is the degree of lip or turn up on the forward seat end. The Thorseat is turned up more on the end while the Volae tends to be at a flatter angle. The upshot is the Thorseat is better for a seat angle in the 35-50 degree tilt range while the Volae is better adapted to a seat angle in the range of 35 deg or less. Just my preferences for these seats...

 

[billyk]

Nice. My guess is that the Kind air shock has a lot to do with it. I noticed a great improvement in both ride quality and speed/handling with that simple switch. (Q2, 661). I ride about one sprocket higher for each situation, on roads I'm familiar with.

 

[alansills]

I have a quest 451 with the 3 speed front hub. If I were to entertain changing wheels, what options are available to me? Would I transfer the existing hub to a new (for example) 507 wheel? Could I ditch the 3 speed hub and install a 3 chainring system w/ a front deaurailler on the front wheel? Can I buy a 507 wheel with a 3 speed hub in it? TIA, Al

 

[castlerobber]

If I were to entertain changing wheels, what options are available to me?

Anything you can put a disk brake on that will fit the suspended fork, up to 559. 406 works, 507 works. To go larger than 559, like this Trail Quest, you'd need the unsuspended fork used by the Quest 3/QX100. (I suppose you could go smaller than 406, but I suspect there would be problems with the RD and ground clearance.)

Would I transfer the existing hub to a new (for example) 507 wheel?

You can. I really like being able to shift the hub while coasting or stopped.

Could I ditch the 3 speed hub and install a 3 chainring system w/ a front deaurailler on the front wheel?

You can for sure put a double-chainring system on it, just like the QX100. I'm pretty sure a few of our Q-series riders have put triples on theirs. Or you can install something like a Patterson Metropolis two-speed crankset.

 

[alansills]

Thanks! I have short legs (29" inseam) so, I'm thinking 507 is the largest I'd go in wheels. So, if I go to a 507, I'd need to have a bike shop take the disc brakes & hub off the current wheels and transfer them to the 507 wheels? Also - I think I read earlier that one rider went to a larger rear wheel (lets say a 507 or 559) and a smaller front wheel (507 or 451) and that made the seat angle more vertical (basic geometry), any thoughts on the wisdom of such a setup? Al

 

[Lim]

Looks wonderful!

 

[ratz]

Thanks! I have short legs (29" inseam) so, I'm thinking 507 is the largest I'd go in wheels. So, if I go to a 507, I'd need to have a bike shop take the disc brakes & hub off the current wheels and transfer them to the 507 wheels? Also - I think I read earlier that one rider went to a larger rear wheel (lets say a 507 or 559) and a smaller front wheel (507 or 451) and that made the seat angle more vertical (basic geometry), any thoughts on the wisdom of such a setup? Al

Keep the wheels the same; or the rake and trail will get messed up and handling will suffer. 406 is going to give you the most tire choices. 451 very limited and 507 a bit better.

 

[castlerobber]

I have short legs (29" inseam) so, I'm thinking 507 is the largest I'd go in wheels.

My inseam is 30.5". The 507 wheels have worked well for me. Like Bob said, 406 gives the most choices in tire width; I believe the minimum tire width available for 507 is 1.5".

if I go to a 507, I'd need to have a bike shop take the disc brakes & hub off the current wheels and transfer them to the 507 wheels?

Yes. I bought my non-drive wheel used, already built to take disk brakes, and got a new rim of the same model for the LBS to build the drive wheel. Make sure the spoke count matches between your hub and rim. The DD hub you have is probably 32-spoke.

If you haven't found my build thread from last year already, click on the "507" in my signature.

 

[alansills]

I like the idea of going to wider tires (aka 1.5 or 1.75"), I'm interested in stability & road worthiness of the tires. I'm not mechanically handy, so if I bring this to a bike shop, what should I expect to pay for the wheels, and for the transfer of the brakes and hub to go to 507 size?

 

[castlerobber]

if I bring this to a bike shop, what should I expect to pay for the wheels, and for the transfer of the brakes and hub to go to 507 size?

Call around to the bike shops in your area and ask, or check with your local cycling club for recommendations.

Transferring the disks is trivial. Wheelbuilding cost will vary based on what kind of rim and spokes you want, what kind of hub you choose for the non-drive wheel, and how good the wheelbuilder is. You can spend from a few hundred dollars on up.

 

[Gary123]

Do u mean hub or cassette? Cogs

 

[castlerobber]

Do u mean hub or cassette? Cogs

I think he means hub, since he wants to keep his DualDrive, but they'll also need to transfer the cassette. When I went from 451 wheels to 507 on my Q, I bought an 11-32 cassette to replace the original 11-28, so I could keep the gear inches about the same for the lowest gear.

 

[Gary123]

Sorry I missed that. Didn't realize it was dual drive. That is worth a rebuild.