Are you running the correct tire pressure?

ccooper

Active Member
Does anybody here run tubulars? I do, and I flatted last weekend, probably because I did not yet put sealant in the tires. My MBB handling skills are still poor, but I had no trouble rolling to a stop. I suspect that it's easier to ride on a flat tubular than a flat tubeless tire.
 

Gary123

Zen MBB Master
That is encouraging. Maybe my crash was a combination of tire choice and inexperience on bike. I'm seriously considering deflating front tire and doing some low speed rolldowns in parking lot. My rim is already scratched. Could be good training meh.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
Sorry Mr Steve I misread and did not realize you flatted on vendetta and did not know it. I'm sure I need more time on bike and maybe flats won't be so scary if I can stay upright after one. Don't mind a battle scar but I'm not looking for more
Well, to be completely honest, I have tens of thousands of miles of experience riding on two wheels.
One of my jobs was test rider for a motorcycle accessory manufacturer.
I remember lots of high-speed flats, a few of them front-wheel; none of them ended badly.
All that experience may count for something!

I like Ratz' advice:
Warm up with a few low speed drills before the ride and cool down with a few drills after the ride.
I actually do this.
Please consider following his advice. It's a Pro-tip!
 

Gary123

Zen MBB Master
Thanks, I usually do some but I'll try to do more. I'm really impressed that you continued to be able to ride a flat on a vendetta. I once roade a front flat 8 miles on df to get home in the dark. I went about 50 ft. On vendetta when I went down not knowing I flatted. I do think a tight fitting tire would help as ratz said. What do you recommend other than tubeless?
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
I ran 85 in my 23s hit a pothole and flatted and crashed. Now I sit up more, run higher pressure, and wear elbow pads. Has anyone else crashed after flat?
You're kidding, right? :eek: haah
I crash after every front flat I've ever had! Maybe because I'm always going fast and they have been quick flats too, not sure.
Now I ride ProOne Tubeless - haven't had a flat since. Run then at 85 psi. I weight around 150.
 

Gary123

Zen MBB Master
Thank you! At least now I know I'm not alone. I may be forced to go tubeless for safety reasons. As ratz said I'm sure sitting up would help control the bike after flat if I could get up in time, it seems to help in other situations. Fig 8s are a lot easier sitting up.
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Thank you! At least now I know I'm not alone. I may be forced to go tubeless for safety reasons. As ratz said I'm sure sitting up would help control the bike after flat if I could get up in time, it seems to help in other situations. Fig 8s are a lot easier sitting up.
If you don't want to go tubeless yet, just put some sealant in the inner tubes. You need to have the inner tubes with the removable valves. I ran for a whole season and a bit with that configuration and then changed to carbon rims; my front wheel has an inner tube with sealant in too. Next season ... New wheels, tubeless ready and with disc hubs. I need to try some mountain descents without scaring the life out of me.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
You're kidding, right? :eek: haah
I crash after every front flat I've ever had! Maybe because I'm always going fast and they have been quick flats too, not sure.
Now I ride ProOne Tubeless - haven't had a flat since. Run then at 85 psi. I weight around 150.

For everyone new; not just Gary123

It's probably important to point out some things here in this thread. Especially for our newer members that are still learning the personalities of the forum veterans. Larry "crash" Oslund, might just be a statistically outlier..... :rolleyes:

Ok hang on this got really long.....


Always consider what you are doing; these bikes let you go 40mph+ down hill and it takes very little talent to do that (The talent will come with time but it is by no means required). No matter what bike you pick; at 40mph if the front tire goes flat I give you a 60/40 chance of going down hard. Most of us lack the bike handling skills to ride through that (excluding those of us who are a practiced MTB riders or former motorcycle test pilots). If your previous high speed of terror was 32mph then, understand the choices you make as you roll up to 40+. These bikes also let you carve a corner like no other bike you have ridden. As you pedal through corner at 18+mph, at a 45degree lean, you will have a new appreciation for why your front tire needs to be perfectly seated and at the correct pressures. Always consider the choices you make prior to the ride as you maintain your bike.

So let consider Larry specifically, because he is a fun foil. When it comes to going fast on fast bikes, there are levels of risk that people pick to endure (Looking at you single track down hill MTB rider). It is therefore dangerous to compare average rider experiences to high end Larry the racer guy or anyone on the Redbull Channel. It is pretty safe to say Larry is on the high-end the bell curve for road miles ridden to crash ratio, but there is a reason for that. He has made specific choices and understands his risks (well usually he does).... :p All the fast guys assume greater risks.

On the road Larry is running tiny handle bars that while they give him control at speed they certainly lack in leverage and finesse, does not matter how good he gets with them; sudden lateral inputs to his bike will have a much earlier point of no return. That is the price he is paying in order to go 25-27mph steady state. The trade off is a higher risk of going down and he compensates and wears crash padded shorts to mitigate the risk.. (then promptly lands on the butt where there is no non-human padding).

Add on top of that Larry is also running and testing a variety of Race Wheels from several sources (some of them budget priced) and testing fragile Latex tubes and learning about mounting tubeless tires for the first time. Those things increase failure rates during the test period you can't get around that. But if you want to figure it out there is no teacher as good as experience (or what you can steal from the contributors of this forums). This in the end is so very different from recreational riders who get a good solid mounted tire and then pile on 2000-4000 miles on it.

Trade-offs in everything we do that is the game we play and you will hear a lot about that here in the forums. But we like it that way.

Meanwhile stepping away from Larry. I have the similar problems to consider. I have had 4 crashes on training rides over the last 3 years, two where unmarked chipseal gravel that washed out my front wheel on a corner, 1 was catching the front wheel on the sand/asphault shoulder lip; and 1 was the front wheel blowing off the RIM because I mounted a tire that fit too loosely and didn't stop to consider that it was a really really really bad idea. All occurred at over 20mph. The common thread is those were all front tires. Fortunately the crashes are typical of recumbent; side wash outs that cost hip and arm rashes; and some component scuffing. I also wear crash shorts if I'm going for long mentally exhausting rides or really fast descents anything to save some skin. I already have a broken neck so I think about this probably more than most

So if the front tire is the spot to focus our concern.

And riding is a progression.
Learn to ride the bikes at 5 mph
Learn to ride the bike at 16 mph
Learn to ride the bike at 22mph

As you progress through these level evaluate the gear you are using and your confidence in them. If the bike shop mounted your tires; consider how much you trust that kid mechanic. :eek: Once you join the 18mph+ crowd, it really is time to learn to mount your own tires and to maintain them correctly. If I am going down in a crash I want it to be my fault not some kid in a bike shop that was distracted by a fight with his girlfriend when he mounted my tire. There are plenty of youtube videos. You quickly will learn the little nuances to the art. It is not hard it just takes a little knowledge. Winter is a great time to practice while watching TV; the cost; a couple inner tubes at most.

Fortunately we all have access to the A67 rims from Cruzbike; they are stupid cheap and high quality; you can count on them to hold a clincher correctly and be easy to work with. You can do far worse than starting with them; and it's actually expensive to start with anything else; again because Cruzbike has specifically selected them for their quality and basically then give them away at those prices. Now If you are not using them; that's cool but make sure you know what your wheel is and what it was made for and the quality control that went into it. A 16 spoke wheel does not make a great front wheel for a Cruzbike. A budget Carbon wheel from Aliexpress deserves a bunch of testing in the garage and a high quality tire mount job to limit your risk. That cool rohloff spoke pattern is great on a DF; on your Cruzbike V20; not so much.

Ok deep breath; that's a lot of words to paint a very small picture.

On a Cruzbike the front wheel is important. Not as much as you fear but more than you may be accustomed to. Don't take shortcuts on your wheels, quality tires mounted on a quality rims are indeed worth the expenses and the time investment to learn to maintain them. Also consider what you are doing and the risks you have exposed yourself too. Then you can actively minimize those risk or choose to accept them; both of which is better than having them unwittingly imposed upon you. (Avoid self delusion that it does not apply to you:cool:)

I personally ride tubeless because I do go down hill at 35+; I do regularly ride corners under heavy acceleration at a heavy lean; and I have to keep PluckyBlond upright on her bike; if she crashes because of a tire it will be my fault.

For those reasons I went tubeless, as the best long term play, It hasn't been an easy conversion to learn, but it is worlds easier to join in now than it was 3 years ago thanks to industry wide acceptance. It pays dividends as it reduces the frequency of rapid air loss thereby lowering the number of chances for the tire to be in a rapid and sudden compromised position. But tubes or tubeless the name of the game is do it right, and don't cut corners; and don't push the life span of your tires. Tires are not cheap so budget for them.

So to wrap this up if you are crashing because of a flat tire on the front; that means you either need skills work and more practice; or you are riding a speeds or in conditions that it is just luck of the draw whether you crash or not, which is not bike specific, It however might be rider specific if such speeds where previously outside your physical reaches and thus not a risk factor you are accustomed to managing. Those are the only two real causes.

Meanwhile If you are flatting too often then that's about tire, wheel selection for the riding parameters, condition of your roads, and maintenance of said wheels. A lot of people here can help with all of this, and now hopefully the correct questions to ask can be identified.

Now help me down from this soap box before I hurt myself..... (this was a great way to avoid my race report though).

In a few weeks I expect to have some new FLO wheels and Reynolds ones. I plan to do some testing of perfectibg Aero setup of 23c and 25c tires and the difference the RIMs make. I think it's like 6 wheel types in all. I'll put some thought into making some of that into how to do tubeless from the ground up; and what makes a true tubeless rim.... might not be until after recumbent cycle con just because of weather travel and work but it's definitely on the list for the winter.
 
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trplay

Zen MBB Master
The trade off is a higher risk of going down and he compensates and wears crash padded shorts to mitigate the risk.. (then promptly lands on the butt where there is no non-human padding).

LOL, that was cruel :confused:
 

Gary123

Zen MBB Master
Really appreciate your post on flats leading to crashes . just a little about me, I've been a pretty active rider of both road and Mt bike most of adult life. Even built up a 5speed wheel on a Schwinn cruiser before Mt bikes were available. Also have raced both and have had my share of flats but never faster than 20-30 mph and never came close to losing control on anything including rear blowout on bacchetta strada. I'm convinced that vendetta is biggest challenge to control after front flat but I also hope its worth the effort. I bought my vendetta about a month ago from Jim and maria. Its a V2x ridden by Maria on her raam victory. I was leaning toward a bacchetta aero but really wanted to learn the cruzbike platform. I'm willing to work and pay my dues to accomplish this because I think MBB has great advantages. I will say that after riding vendetta I appreciate the ride of the quest. Both are getting easier but the quest almost seems second nature. I hope after 1000 miles vendetta will feel the same way. I think I will be going tubeless sooner than later because of responses here.thanks .
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Really appreciate your post on flats leading to crashes . just a little about me, I've been a pretty active rider of both road and Mt bike most of adult life. Even built up a 5speed wheel on a Schwinn cruiser before Mt bikes were available. Also have raced both and have had my share of flats but never faster than 20-30 mph and never came close to losing control on anything including rear blowout on bacchetta strada. I'm convinced that vendetta is biggest challenge to control after front flat but I also hope its worth the effort. I bought my vendetta about a month ago from Jim and maria. Its a V2x ridden by Maria on her raam victory. I was leaning toward a bacchetta aero but really wanted to learn the cruzbike platform. I'm willing to work and pay my dues to accomplish this because I think MBB has great advantages. I will say that after riding vendetta I appreciate the ride of the quest. Both are getting easier but the quest almost seems second nature. I hope after 1000 miles vendetta will feel the same way. I think I will be going tubeless sooner than later because of responses here.thanks .

That experience is going to serve you well. Most of my post was for those that follow later and find the Thread. Tubeless certainly isn't necessary, and we don't what to feed that as a must. But given your synopsis your riding history is likely going to send you in that direction. I expect you'll be riding strong after that 1000 miles. On and Welcome to the party. Keep us posted on your progress.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
What you talk about of course happens... After about 2.5 weeks of steady rain the clouds parted and I got out for a sunset ride. About 1.2 miles from home it was dark enough that I haven't a clue what I rode through but PSSSSTTTTT flat tire. I heard it; it didn't immediately seal; so I coasted to a stop. Was sure it was the rear tire. check it; nope it's fine. hmmmmm. check the front sure enough the front is flat about 10spi in it. but still perfectly mounted on the rim. Grab the co2 and put air in; but not enough fluid left in the tire after a full season. So get it up about 50psi; ride up the hill until it's drained; stop fill up with the rest of the co2. Fortunately downhill from there to the house. so run the bike up to speed and "sit" on the back of the seat and grab the seat pan with my knees. basically no weight on the front and coast the rest of the way to the neighborhood. Pedal home on about 12 psi. Tire on the rim perfect the whole way; drop some fluid in and pump to 60 psi to let it seal overnight should be able to use that tire for the 2-3 weeks we have before outdoor season is over.
 
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