BROL - losing its gloss

[John Tolhurst]

Ever since Bryan Ball asked Bob Bryant to write, BROL has turned into a tired old cardigan of a site. I'm very disappointed in it. PVC stands for trikes - I ask you, how does this justify the same headline status as a new leading edge product?

 

[Mark B]

I think (and this is just my opinion) Bryan feels like he killed RCN, so he brought BB on board to help keep BROL "fresh" all the time. If BROL was stale and it still killed RCN, then what was RCN?

BB became a "legend" among the recumbent community because his rag was the only game in town. There was no BROL, the only other avenue for information was Usenet group and most of us know what happened to that. RCN (again, in my opinion) put Easy Racers on the recumbent map because BB compared everything to them, extolled the virtues of the Easy Racer at every turn. I agree it's a fine bicycle, but it got nauseating. I never subscribed to RCN, though I admit I thought about it. But, in my mind, RCN and Easy Racers was darned near synonymous for years.

Along came BROL with some fresh, new ideas.. We had a forum WITH moderation, though the moderation was and is extremely selective, at times. A few can seemingly say whatever they want, but others can't, etc. At any rate, it was moderated and pissing matches are kept down and at least reasonably civil, for pissing matches. We talked about other bikes, besides Eeasy Racers. We discussed things, met people, organized events and for better, or worse, formed opinions about things.

IMHO, Bryan has done the recumbent community a great service, albeit a service he's made a living off of. He's made some mistakes along the way, but he broke new ground, set new standards. You're going to make mistakes. I believe he deserves a pass. At least for now. While the PVC trike stand might have been a stinker (and there's been a few others), BB has posted some good stuff, too. Come on; where else would you learn where to order plans to build a PVC quad "speedster"?

Mark

 

[Peder Torgersen]

johntolhurst wrote: Ever since Bryan Ball asked Bob Bryant to write, BROL has turned into a tired old cardigan of a site. I'm very disappointed in it. PVC stands for trikes - I ask you, how does this justify the same headline status as a new leading edge product?

Maybe they don’t have so many ideas at the moment or want to save some for later? Here is a possible story a recumbent with 3 wheels and a sail? http://www.whike.com/
It can perhaps be practical in some areas?

Peder

 

[trapdoor2]

johntolhurst wrote: Ever since Bryan Ball asked Bob Bryant to write, BROL has turned into a tired old cardigan of a site. I'm very disappointed in it. PVC stands for trikes - I ask you, how does this justify the same headline status as a new leading edge product?

Quite frankly, I really appreciated the trike stand article (my trike stand is made from scrap wood). Most of the "leading edge" stuff is just marketing hype anyway, having a 'DIY' article in there occasionally is like getting a squirt of fresh air. This is not to say I don't enjoy reading about the latest offerings (I'm here because of BROL, ain't I) but if I want miles of bling, I could subscribe to Velonews or whatever the latest rag the TDF weenies are reading.

Balance, grasshopper. Carbon fiber today, PVC tomorrow, Kung Pao for lunch.

 

[Mark B]

trapdoor2 wrote:

johntolhurst wrote: Ever since Bryan Ball asked Bob Bryant to write, BROL has turned into a tired old cardigan of a site. I'm very disappointed in it. PVC stands for trikes - I ask you, how does this justify the same headline status as a new leading edge product?

Quite frankly, I really appreciated the trike stand article (my trike stand is made from scrap wood). Most of the "leading edge" stuff is just marketing hype anyway, having a 'DIY' article in there occasionally is like getting a squirt of fresh air. This is not to say I don't enjoy reading about the latest offerings (I'm here because of BROL, ain't I) but if I want miles of bling, I could subscribe to Velonews or whatever the latest rag the TDF weenies are reading.

Balance, grasshopper. Carbon fiber today, PVC tomorrow, Kung Pao for lunch.

Stop it! Now you got me wanting a PVC quad speedster! :lol:

I agree, Marc, I appreciate BROL for what it is. You do have to sort through the "experts" and "expert opinions", but generally speaking, a lot can be gleaned from that site.

Mark

 

[JonB]

RCN == Recumbent Critter News?

 

[John Tolhurst]

One of the aweful things about being in the recumbent bike business is how readily the whole segment gets classified as something for dusty old nerds. Very hard to position a product in that space. When BROL is about clean smart products, and an industry regenerting its image in the wake of go-one, glyde and others, it helps enormously to give credibility to the segment and to give new comers confidence that they will not be ridiculed. Bryant relentlessly drags the whole thing back to age of making a tour easy out of two diamond frame bikes. Back to a 1960s concept of remaking the world, a kind of dropoutism.

Hey, the pvc trike rack has its place, but front page of north america's most respected bent web site is not it in my opinion. It should be a sticky thread in the maintenance or home builder section.

That front page prominence at BROL is worth money and should be devoted to giving recognition to those out there (yes, like me) who are trying to make real advances. If we do so, give us that accolade, support the industry and the customers alike that way, support progress.

 

[John Tolhurst]

The Bryant effect is to create barriers to adoption by those who do not share this backyardy home-mady we-enjoy-being weird mentality.

The pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro. I pulled up at the lights in Perth city on my Silvio next to a very expensive Monaro with the throbbing motor, big wheels and all the fruit. The pedestrians looked at the Silvio, because its cool. This is how I am trying to position product in the market, and in my opinion everyone would be better off accepting that it is an industry and we have to somehow get strong clear marketing messages out there. We cannot pretend that bents are somehow not in a commercial environment, or that this industry can afford to be sloppy in how it projects itself or its products. To do so is to deny reality and do a disservice to the potential of the industry to make its own small but important contribution to the future health of the planet.

 

[Mark B]

Darn it, John, you make some great points. I'm pulling in my horns on the PVC quad speedster. In public, anyway. :lol: :lol:

Mark

 

[Peder Torgersen]

Bryan did mention he would start to use more technology to attract young people. He has also made some interviews maybe he can he can make an interview with you John T? Then you would be able to inform about Cruzbike products and what makes them different from other recumbents. Even if you live in different continents with modern technology a interview shouldn’t be so difficult? :idea:

Peder

 

[John Tolhurst]

Mark B wrote: Darn it, John, you make some great points. I'm pulling in my horns on the PVC quad speedster. In public, anyway. :lol: :lol:

Mark

Still, I was in a bit of a rant mode. But I feel better now. :roll:

Maybe I should post over at BROL on this, I just wonder if I could bother mustering the defense that I know will be required.

 

[JonB]

johntolhurst wrote:

Mark B wrote: Darn it, John, you make some great points. I'm pulling in my horns on the PVC quad speedster. In public, anyway. :lol: :lol:

Mark

Still, I was in a bit of a rant mode. But I feel better now. :roll:

Maybe I should post over at BROL on this, I just wonder if I could bother mustering the defense that I know will be required.

If you give a defense it will end up as a flamewar, sp just post once. Sure they will argue against it, but it will not (with your help) become a flame war.

 

[Mark B]

It's not a democracy over there. What would you do in that instance? Yeah, that's right.... Block and or delete the account.

Mark

 

[trapdoor2]

johntolhurst wrote: One of the aweful things about being in the recumbent bike business is how readily the whole segment gets classified as something for dusty old nerds. Very hard to position a product in that space. When BROL is about clean smart products, and an industry regenerting its image in the wake of go-one, glyde and others, it helps enormously to give credibility to the segment and to give new comers confidence that they will not be ridiculed. Bryant relentlessly drags the whole thing back to age of making a tour easy out of two diamond frame bikes. Back to a 1960s concept of remaking the world, a kind of dropoutism.

I feel your pain, John. Recumbent riders get a lot of that grief as well…and it is not going away any time soon. Personally, I’m thankful that BROL is not just about "clean smart products", it is inclusive rather than exclusive…about recumbent cycling and all its aspects (which includes a wonderful variety). Some days Bryan needs to serve the techno image and some days he needs to serve the luddites. It has to balance or he'll lose everyone.

Quote: Hey, the pvc trike rack has its place, but front page of north america's most respected bent web site is not it in my opinion. It should be a sticky thread in the maintenance or home builder section.

I simply disagree. Something that useful ought to be right up front for its 15min of fame; though this being the internet, perhaps that ought to be reduced to 5 min...

Quote: That front page prominence at BROL is worth money and should be devoted to giving recognition to those out there (yes, like me) who are trying to make real advances. If we do so, give us that accolade, support the industry and the customers alike that way, support progress.

I have no problem with that but again, without balance we would be limited to a boring "industry-insiders" magazine. If you want your product to be "up front", you need to invest in advertising (which you do quite nicely on BROL, btw). The real issue here is that your perceptions are different from others…and although you can control content here, any such rant laid before the BROL crew is likely to turn ugly or at the least into a helmet or gun thread.

Don't get me wrong, John, I do think Bryan serves the GRR groupies way too much ice-cream. I enjoy the 'cutting-edge' stuff as much as I enjoy the homebuilts…but personally would prefer to see more competition-based content (probably not going to happen!).

Speaking of which, I really think you aren’t going to get Cruzbike “on the map” until you start producing ‘racing’ or ‘speed record’ data. You’ve talked a bit about getting a professional rider onto a Silvio for some comparison riding. I think it would be a great benefit, esp. if he/she rode it over an already established course (already established for DF racers). People want “proof”, even if it is generated by super-human legs. Racing/speed-trap history is a proven attractor and money-maker.

 

[trapdoor2]

johntolhurst wrote:

Mark B wrote: Darn it, John, you make some great points. I'm pulling in my horns on the PVC quad speedster. In public, anyway. :lol: :lol:

Mark

Still, I was in a bit of a rant mode. But I feel better now. :roll:

Maybe I should post over at BROL on this, I just wonder if I could bother mustering the defense that I know will be required.

From a marketing standpoint, you ought to be posting something "Cruzbike related" every time the previous Cruzbike thread drops off the main page. Ranting about Bryan's editorial skills may not be a good idea though. Same for yet another whine about how we are green-and-comfortable-and-better-and-faster-and whydoesn'ttheTDF/UCIallowustorace... Sheesh, you might as well post about how Cruzbike mandates helmet use or that you've just introduced aero gun holsters as an accessory. :lol:

Sorry. I shouldn't get on a soapbox. I like it here...and BROL. I do not want a PVC Silvio, I swear! :mrgreen:

 

[MrSteve]

"Aero gun holster"?!!
:shock:
Wow!
:lol:
:idea: Hey, how about an aero gun rack?
:twisted:

-Steve