Buying a used V20 Vendetta.

[Maverick1]

Last year I bought a used Bacchetta Giro 26 recumbent bike, and really like the laid back, higher speed, no pain style of riding.
I can average around 29kms/hour on the flats, however climbing on the
Bacchetta is challenging.
Is riding the V20 a lot more difficult than my Bacchetta?
Will the V20 be much faster, because I've developed a liking for speed.
I found a used V20 with the aluminum frame and they are asking around $2,700. Fair price?
It has disc brakes.
Do the bikes come with serial numbers? If so where is it located?
The seller said he didn't see one on the bike.
What would the aluminum V20 weigh?
If I got the serial number would I be able to then determine the year of the bike?
Since one size fits all, how do I know if I will fit the bike?
The seller is around 6'2" and I am 5'8" quite a big difference.
I know X-seam measurement is important.
My X-seam is 38-39".
I know lots of questions, but $2,700 is a good chunk of change.
Cheers.

 

[chicorider]

Last year I bought a used Bacchetta Giro 26 recumbent bike, and really like the laid back, higher speed, no pain style of riding.
I can average around 29kms/hour on the flats, however climbing on the
Bacchetta is challenging.
Is riding the V20 a lot more difficult than my Bacchetta?
Will the V20 be much faster, because I've developed a liking for speed.
I found a used V20 with the aluminum frame and they are asking around $2,700. Fair price?
It has disc brakes.
Do the bikes come with serial numbers? If so where is it located?
The seller said he didn't see one on the bike.
What would the aluminum V20 weigh?
If I got the serial number would I be able to then determine the year of the bike?
Since one size fits all, how do I know if I will fit the bike?
The seller is around 6'2" and I am 5'8" quite a big difference.
I know X-seam measurement is important.
My X-seam is 38-39".
I know lots of questions, but $2,700 is a good chunk of change.
Cheers.

Hi Maverick1,

I have never ridden a Bacchetta, and it bugs me when people say, "I have never ___________, but I'm going to give you my inexpert opinion anyway," so I won't try to compare the V20 to the Giro. But as an eight-year V20/V20c rider I can offer a little insight...

The V does have a learning curve, but with practice and equal parts stubbornness and faith, the curve is conquerable and worth it.
On flat routes, I can hold 35kph all day long, and 38kph for a long, long time. This will, of course, vary from rider to rider. Others are faster.
My strength is climbing, and the V is a mountain goat, only slightly, slightly slower than my lighter weight DF bike.
$2,700 could be a fair price, but it depends a bit on the build. You could offer $2,500 and see what he says.
Good question about serial numbers. The V20 did not change much over the years (mostly paint), until the V20c came out.
I had my V20 down to a little over 23lbs./10.5kg with a higher end build and carbon wheels.
The only part available in different lengths is the chainstay. At 5'8" you would probably use the standard "medium" chainstay that ships with the bike. At 6'2" the owner might have swapped in a longer chainstay. If he held onto the medium chainstay, he should be including it in the sale. The rest of the bike--boom/slider and headrest should adjust to your height and inseam without trouble. You are on the low end of the sweet-spot for fitting a V. At 5'5" I'm outside the sweet-spot, and have still been able to fit every Cruzbike I've owned.

I hope this helps.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks so much for your input and insight, helps a lot.
23 lbs seems incredible to me, as my Bacchetta weighs in at a hefty 35lbs.
I'm not too worried about learning to ride a V20, more about getting a proper fit.
Thanks for that tip on the chainstay length, I'll have to ask the seller about it.
Do you know any specific measurements for the standard versus the longer version?
35 & 38 kms/hour does sound exciting as I really enjoy going fast.
On a good day on flat roads I can average 29kms, but normally I'm averaging 27kms on the Bacchetta.
Great to read that the V20 is a good climber, because that's where I have the most challenges on the Bacchetta, climbing is a chore.
Thanks again.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Welcome Maverick1, and glad to hear you are considering a V20. From the screen shot, it is difficult to guess the chainstay length, but 1 thing that might ease your mind is that shorter riders interested more in speed often swapped for the longer chainstays so it would get their feet a little higher to improve their aerodynamics so their heels weren't hanging out too low at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I am 5'10", and I have the small chainstays (19.5" from the dropouts to the BB center). I could probably be more aero with the longer chainstays, so I am pretty sure you would benefit aerodynamically too if that V20 does have 'em. Worst case scenario if they are the longer chainstays and they don't fit you and another V20 owner looking for the longer chainstays swap.

I had no idea the Bachetta was that much heavier than a V20. Since it is, you are surely going to climb better on a V20, not even counting that the MBB design allows you to put more power down by being able to pull on the bars.

As for speed, I am certain the V20 is going to be faster, especially if your bars get your hands and arms closer to your legs. I started with 420mm bars (too wide), went to 400m (too narrow) and now have 420mm. I don't know what seat angle your Bachetta is set at, but it looks higher than the V20's 20 degrees. At 20 degrees your head lower and reclining your torso is going to make you more aero. Putting water bottles behind your head, adding a Race Case, or even a custom tailbox will also help.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks for the warm welcome.
I find it surprising that more people don't embrace recumbent bikes, considering just how much more comfortable and efficient they are, than your standard Diamond frame bikes.
I can only ride my mountain bike maybe an hour or 90 minutes max, before my butt, lower back, neck and sometines wrists start to feel it.
After riding my recumbent Bacchetta the only things I feel are my legs which is what you would expect after riding a bike.
On the popular trail I ride, I've never seen another recumbent bike this summer, however a gent on a Cruzbike I believe a V20 rides past my house most weekdays.
I think next week I'm going to wait for him and ask him about his bike.
Cheers.

 

[Frito Bandito]

All good peeps here with helpful information. It's good to browse the forum to learn more, but with the amount of posts already here I hope you can do a bit of speed reading. Alternatively, you can always start your own thread of your journey and I am sure any questions you have will get answered quick fast and in a hurry by some very experienced riders.

Same here. I had the same issues on my DF bike, and about the same time limits, and always confused as to why riders won't buy a faster and more comfortable bike when they get passed and then dropped by a 55 year old dude whose watt/kg was at best on the low end of a Cat 3 level. People are funny though.

Asking the CBer to check out his CB would be a great way to not only get a riding partner, but possibly get a test ride in. Plenty of CBers are happy to offer their bikes for a test ride, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did also, especially since you are already familiar with 'bents. I never had that option, I just jumped straight in and figured "if that rider can do it then so can I."

 

[Maverick1]

Very true.
It's great to have a resource like this.
I recently purchased a Catrike 700 recumbent racing trike, and I now switch between the Catrike and Bacchetta.
It doesn't matter which one I ride, I get strange looks from others using the trail.
I've also noticed that when I pass fellow riders on traditional diamond frame bikes, most ignore my waves and won't acknowledge me, like I'm below them or something, really strange.
On both my recumbents I usually pass all other riders, even those on traditional lightweight, carbon fiber racing bikes.
I'm almost 60, and I think the young riders don't like me keeping up with them or even passing most if them.
From what I've read, I believe I'll be even faster on a V20 Vendetta.
That should be fun.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I am sure the Catrike 700 is very fast too. Well, it is only going to get worse because you'll be even faster. On the up side though, they won't be in your field of view for as long

It is kind of funny though. Even though there is absolutely nothing else for them to look at, when they pass you going the other way they hold their head abnormally still. Kind of like a fawn in the grass hoping to not be seen by the mountain lion. As if they aren't looking at you behind their mirrored sunglasses. "I'm SERIOUSLY training now, I can't be looking at the other side of the bike path because I am so focused on my power, cadence, heart rate, tempo, gear selection and holding a straight line to not bleed off speed and 'the shortest distance from point A to point B is a straight line'."

Can't really blame them though. I'd be mad too at spending $15,000 on a DF bike that is barely faster than the 1939 model. How'd my dad put it? "Lunacy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." Maybe one day they will learn that there are 5 or 6 classes of bikes that are faster than a TT bike and they should get 1 of 'em instead of farting around with UCI legal DF bikes as if they are going to go Pro.

 

[LarryOz]

This Cruzbike is from around 2018-2019 timeframe I believe. That is about when th Grey series were. Looking at the picture this definetely looks like a long chainstay. Contrary to popular opinion the higher the BB does not make you more aero. Each person needs to test for themselves. In the quest for speed (at 5.7") I also tried the long chainstay. I was slower. I did multiple and extensive testing on short flat circuits using a power meter and also coast down testing as well, changing the components out immediatly so testing was virtually within hours. It in unfortunately a lot of work to figure out and prove. The changes are also not "HUGE" - I'm talking maybe 0.3-0.5 mph (or at most 1 kph) which is not a lot, but if you are ridin in a 12 or 24 hour ultra race then you can see where they make a huge difference.

 

[cruzKurt]

What everyone else said, but also this bike might have an older chainstay which makes parts availability harder. The newer chainstays have horseshoe clamps and are still available. So trying to date it, if you can get a picture of the chainstay head on you will be able to tell if it is a later v20. At least that is my experience. This bike also has the Microshift components and although they are perfectly functional, I am not a fan. I am currently replacing those on my v20c, which is costing me probably $1000.

If it is nearby and you don't have to ship it, I would say $2400 would be a good bargain. If you have to ship it, you are pushing $3k and I would certainly consider a used v20c.

I had a Bacchetta CA 2.0 before my v20. I can say I am faster on a v20, now v20c. Likely some due to fitness improvements, but in general I feel like I like the 20 degree seat angle much more and can ride for hours with no pain. My Bacchetta was one smooth ride. But in the end, the Cruzbike community is top notch and I chose to sell my Bacchetta. If you get a newer Cruzbike, parts are readily available from Cruzbike and you will have a long enjoyable journey.

 

[chicorider]

Briefly back to chainstays...

The V20 shipped with a 19.5in. "medium" chainstay." Again, at 5'5", with proportionately shorter legs, that chainstay put my feet too high up, and the handlebar too close to my lap. The handling was funky. I ordered the "short" 16.5in. stay, along with a curved slider, and the fit for me was excellent. I'd guess that for your height that original medium chainstay will be just about right, and that a long stay for you would be similar to what the medium stay was for me.

If the V in the photo is the one you are looking at, then it has the most current aluminum chainstay with the inboard bottom bracket clamps (the older style had more outboard clamps that clamped around the bb cups, not the bb shell. The last V to use that stay was the old yellow v.2).

That particular V20 in the picture is built up with parts carried over from a V20c--parts sourced during pandemic scarcity. As a smaller bike company, Cruzbike was fortunate enough to be able to source these parts at the time. As a build kit, it is adequate--certainly functional and most likely durable, but also comparatively heavy and somewhat unrefined. When I bought my V20c, I had carbon wheels and Shimano Dura Ace already on hand, so I sold the stock kit to someone building up a S40. I'd think around $2,300 or so would be fair. Use this mid-level kit to learn to ride the bike and upgrade down the road. Wheels would probably be the single most significant upgrade.

 

[ratz]

The last V to use that stay was the old yellow v.2).

The first six months of the gray and white striped frames and the ten hand-painted ones all had the "clamp to the cups" design as well; many owners who are forum members did, however, upgrade when the new stays became available. The new stay came out just before the RAMM Relay team 2017 IIRC frames shipping in the Spring of 2017 had the new stays.

That particular V20 in the picture is built up with parts carried over from a V20c--parts sourced during pandemic scarcity. As a smaller bike company, Cruzbike was fortunate enough to be able to source these parts at the time. As a build kit, it is adequate--certainly functional and most likely durable, but also comparatively heavy and somewhat unrefined. When I bought my V20c, I had carbon wheels and Shimano Dura Ace already on hand, so I sold the stock kit to someone building up a S40. I'd think around $2,300 or so would be fair. Use this mid-level kit to learn to ride the bike and upgrade down the road. Wheels would probably be the single most significant upgrade.

+1 to this very much agree.

 

[cruzKurt]

Briefly back to chainstays...

The V20 shipped with a 19.5in. "medium" chainstay." Again, at 5'5", with proportionately shorter legs, that chainstay put my feet too high up, and the handlebar too close to my lap. The handling was funky. I ordered the "short" 16.5in. stay, along with a curved slider, and the fit for me was excellent. I'd guess that for your height that original medium chainstay will be just about right, and that a long stay for you would be similar to what the medium stay was for me.

If the V in the photo is the one you are looking at, then it has the most current aluminum chainstay with the inboard bottom bracket clamps (the older style had more outboard clamps that clamped around the bb cups, not the bb shell. The last V to use that stay was the old yellow v.2).

That particular V20 in the picture is built up with parts carried over from a V20c--parts sourced during pandemic scarcity. As a smaller bike company, Cruzbike was fortunate enough to be able to source these parts at the time. As a build kit, it is adequate--certainly functional and most likely durable, but also comparatively heavy and somewhat unrefined. When I bought my V20c, I had carbon wheels and Shimano Dura Ace already on hand, so I sold the stock kit to someone building up a S40. I'd think around $2,300 or so would be fair. Use this mid-level kit to learn to ride the bike and upgrade down the road. Wheels would probably be the single most significant upgrade.

This bike I believe has been listed on this forum before, here. https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/cruzbike-v20-vendetta-recumbent-bike-for-sale-off-market.15267/

Here is a picture of the chainstay that is in that ad, in my opinion it does not look like the modern chainstay clamp.

 

[Maverick1]

This bike I believe has been listed on this forum before, here. https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/cruzbike-v20-vendetta-recumbent-bike-for-sale-off-market.15267/

Here is a picture of the chainstay that is in that ad, in my opinion it does not look like the modern chainstay clamp.

View attachment 16073

First off, I want to thank all of you who took the time to reply to my post.
When buying anything, especially used, it's good practice to do your research and due diligence.
I was under the impression that all bikes have individual serial numbers, especially ones costing $2,000-$5,000+.
If the bike in question had a serial number I could simply call the manufacturer with that number, and get a date of manufacturer and whether it or not it had all the modern parts or whether it had hard to find, outdated parts.
"in my opinion it does not look like the modern chainstay clamp."
I take it that's not a good thing.
Any idea how much a shorter chainstay might cost if needed, or if it's even possible to get one for that bike?

 

[cruzKurt]

First off, I want to thank all of you who took the time to reply to my post.
When buying anything, especially used, it's good practice to do your research and due diligence.
I was under the impression that all bikes have individual serial numbers, especially ones costing $2,000-$5,000+.
If the bike in question had a serial number I could simply call the manufacturer with that number, and get a date of manufacturer and whether it or not it had all the modern parts or whether it had hard to find, outdated parts.
"in my opinion it does not look like the modern chainstay clamp."
I take it that's not a good thing.
Any idea how much a shorter chainstay might cost if needed, or if it's even possible to get one for that bike?

You should email support@cruzbike.com and get a definitive answer on short chainstay. @Robert Holler is the official expert and works for Cruzbike. This bike likely has the "standard" 19 inch-ish chainstay. If you needed or wanted a "short" chainstay, best to get that answer from Cruzbike. This would also mean converting to a modern boom and maybe slider. (from handle bars to wheel there are three tubular parts, Slider, Boom & Chainstay). Again, Cruzbike support will definitely have the answer and are incredibly responsive. If I had to guess, chainstay about $200, Boom about $200 and if you need a new slider, probably about the same. Those are guesses of course.

As to if you might need a shorter chainstay, Larry is certainly an expert in that area. I am quite tall and the standard is quite OK for me. Cruzbike website says v20c adjustable to fit 5'2" to 6'5", maybe about the same for v20. I think in most cases folks fit quite well in the standard components. Maybe there is someone near you that would could get a test fit. If you are near Eastern NC, I have a v20 you can try. my x-seam is 43" and I am sure you would fit just fine on my v20 with a standard chain stay.

 

[ratz]

First off, I want to thank all of you who took the time to reply to my post.
When buying anything, especially used, it's good practice to do your research and due diligence.
I was under the impression that all bikes have individual serial numbers, especially ones costing $2,000-$5,000+.
If the bike in question had a serial number I could simply call the manufacturer with that number, and get a date of manufacturer and whether it or not it had all the modern parts or whether it had hard to find, outdated parts.
"in my opinion it does not look like the modern chainstay clamp."
I take it that's not a good thing.
Any idea how much a shorter chainstay might cost if needed, or if it's even possible to get one for that bike?

They do have serial numbers we are just a modding community and we can mode more than a traditional bike. When we dream up new stuff we often get it can can apply it to older bikes. This would be like changing the fork on a road bike or putting a dropper post on a mountain bike. We just happen to be able to change the chain stay length.

IF the chain stay is not BLACK from that era it's the old one; the one in that picture is metal flake so it's old.

 

[chicorider]

The first six months of the gray and white striped frames and the ten hand-painted ones all had the "clamp to the cups" design as well; many owners who are forum members did, however, upgrade when the new stays became available. The new stay came out just before the RAMM Relay team 2017 IIRC frames shipping in the Spring of 2017 had the new stays.

Yup, that's older clamp style, sure enough. When the burgundy V20 replaced the yellow v.2, it came with the more current boom/slider that was much more adjustable than the big silver/yellow setup. I ordered that boom/slider and a short chainstay for my yellow v.2, and the chainstay was of the newer clamp type. So I figured that must've been the end of the older style. Almost, but not quite.

 

[chicorider]

I take it that's not a good thing.

The older chainstay clamp presents two minor issues. One is that you are limited to flat-outer surface bottom bracket cups of a certain circumference to serve as the clamping surface for the chainstay. Such bb's are out there, but the selection is limited. Second, bb cups were never designed to have clamps around them. You don't want to over-torque even the newer chainstay clamps, but with the older clamp it didn't take much tightening before it would start to squeeze the bearing and cause drag...and perhaps eventual bearing failure.

With the right bottom bracket and the right touch with the wrench, the old clamp style does work. But the newer style is an improvement.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks.

 

[alexul]

Hello,
Sorry to hijack this thread, if it's not allowed I will create a new one but didn't want to pollute the forum with the same question. I saw an add for a used V20 relative close to me, 4 hours drive however it is from 2015 adn asks for 3300 euros, almost 3500 usd. The ad is from here:

https://www.leboncoin.fr/velos/2429989141.htm

Do you believe it's worth w whole day trip to test it? And at this price?
Thanks a lot