Can we get smaller frames and wheels?

[Opik]

From my experience on cruzbike or other recumbents, it seems they are designed for tall people/long seams. Although T50 says the lower limit is 170, at 174, I struggle to reach the pedals (although yes it is not with the stock seat).

There is also the distance with the ground, with me myself struggling to find the ground when I first started, and for shorter people would be harder, especially in hard sitations (traffic or uphill). Even now, I still feel I will tip over if I don't tilt my bike to the way my feet is planted.

With these 2 things in mind isn't it time for Bent manufacturers to create smaller sizes? At the sydney bicycle show, A friend wanted to try a Delta, but it was too long and setting it up will take time (if it even fits her).

I think a thing for bent riders to become smaller in number is because bent users are more on adults, even older people. As that is the target demographic, bent manufacturers build the bents for them. BUt then, how about the kids and teens?

I'm thinking how about a Cruzbike for people with 130-160 cm hight and based on double 20 inch wheels. Probably like T50, then put it on kickstarter if it can successfull or not

 

[castlerobber]

I'm thinking how about a Cruzbike for people with 130-160 cm hight and based on double 20 inch wheels.

My Quest, an earlier version of the Q45, came with dual 20" (451) wheels. My niece, who is only about 150 cm, was able to ride it with the front triangle pushed in all the way. She couldn't get her feet down quite flat at a stop, but putting 406 wheels on the bike would have solved that.

I'm 165 cm, with 103 cm x-seam. Even after I replaced the 451 wheels on the Q with 507 (24") wheels, I have no problem standing over the bike or getting my feet down. My S30 has 700c wheels, but the seat is no higher than the seat on the Q. I did have to cut several inches off the slider to get the pedals close enough. I've even test-ridden a V20 that's set up for a rider with similar height and x-seam, and it was fine.

 

[Opik]

My Quest, an earlier version of the Q45, came with dual 20" (451) wheels. My niece, who is only about 150 cm, was able to ride it with the front triangle pushed in all the way. She couldn't get her feet down quite flat at a stop, but putting 406 wheels on the bike would have solved that.

I'm 165 cm, with 103 cm x-seam. Even after I replaced the 451 wheels on the Q with 507 (24") wheels, I have no problem standing over the bike or getting my feet down. My S30 has 700c wheels, but the seat is no higher than the seat on the Q. I did have to cut several inches off the slider to get the pedals close enough. I've even test-ridden a V20 that's set up for a rider with similar height and x-seam, and it was fine.

Yes, I'm thinking the lines of this.

Just put 20 inch wheels (406 or 451), disc brakes. and have a shorter boom. Then modify others to suit (like the handlebars). voila, now short people can use it.

Many people don't have the expertise to tinker with their bike, even I'm still on the fence on whether to cut my boom or not.

 

[3bs]

I am currently playing with how to construct a 406 set up.

I think this would be a market for smaller tire framesets for a variety of reasons

 

[bladderhead]

More luggage space. Grasshopper has a huge space behind the seat. Or you could design a shorter wheelbase. Good for commuters winding in out of the barriers and easier to fit in the shed.

 

[Robert Holler]

Creating frames of multiple sizes is a cost per unit and manufacturing challenge.

 

[PeteClark]

Creating frames of multiple sizes is a cost per unit and manufacturing challenge.

Sure would be nice if kid's could go directly from their Big Wheels to a Cruzbike. We've all gotten more "cool bike" shouts from kids than from adults. Chances are that if one kid had a Cruzbike, all the kids in the neighborhood would want one. Image the possibilities.

 

[benphyr]

I think the problem is that there are millions of kids bikes available for cheap, cheap like $100-200 or less and they get used for a year and then the next size is needed as they grow. Cruzbike would never be able to sell to kids for pricing reasons. However, it seems like there might be enough interest from us old codgers to make plans available, have whoever wants to and has the skills and equipment to make rugged kids cruz, and have a lending library type of setup where any that are built are then able to be passed on to the next user.

 

[bladderhead]

Open source Cruzbike! Tux on a Silvio!

 

[Opik]

Creating frames of multiple sizes is a cost per unit and manufacturing challenge.

it's "just" smaller wheels and a shorter boom. There could be an option for 406 wheels when purchasing Q45 (for example, as I think this one is the most purchased and most likely will be purchased, because who doesn't like suspension and comfort, especially in areas with potholed roads) and instructions how to cut the boom / be cut at the factory.

and I think smaller wheels wouldn't be a problem for Q45, as it is for touring/commuting and has suspension. Plus there are short adults with 150 cm height too.

It's about the height. Probably it's good to aim at those 130-160 cm. About kids, I'm not thinking about small children, more about 10 years old and above.

test the market, have a pre order or kick starter campaign, or a survey and test the water

 

[benphyr]

Sure would be nice if kid's could go directly from their Big Wheels to a Cruzbike. ..

You too could spend (waste) money on training wheels but why would you. Cruzbike is the answer. Below is just a gimmick - fun though it may be I'd rather put the 700$ towards the next Cruzbike.

https://www.highrollerusa.com

Notice the safety devices. Knee pads, elbow pads, and a Nutcase - protect your melon (helmet).

 

[3bs]

if you have a q45 or any other frameset with disc brakes you can run a smaller wheelset. i think jim is running smaller wheels on his q45. not 406 but 507. looked great.

i think a simplified frame such as the t50 is a good candidate for a smaller wheelset, if i could come up with a smaller fork. due to head angle i would be reluctant to run a small wheel in front with a larger in back.

this would also make the t50 more amenable to kids.

 

[benphyr]

@Opik,

https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/quest-qr-for-sale-600.12842/

Pick up some smaller wheels and tires - your choice on size (451 were used on some quests but you could probably go smaller, some recumbents have down to 16" wheels) trim down the boom/stem extension if necessary and voila a Kids Quest or at least a small quest. Price is good, especially if you want dual-drive, condition appears good but you might want some better quality pictures with specifics.

 

[3bs]

i will toss a set of 406's on my t50 and take some pictures.

 

[3bs]

So I stuck a 406 on the front of my t50. Left the 26 in back.
It would be an understatement to say it changed the feel of the bike. It was remarkable how much easier it was to ride. HandkliH was super easy, utterly tossable. Also the head tube angle was not an issue. In fact flop was greatly reduced. Front end balance was much better left to right. The most remarkable aspect was that with the lowered front end, it felt much more like a crank forward than a mbb fwd. The only thing I did not test was forward pitch under heavy front braking, since I didn't have a disk on

 

[benphyr]

@3bs Thank you for taking the time to test and sharing your experience. Would you have achieved the same results with both 406 wheels I wonder? Nice looking bike too, love the green grips.

 

[3bs]

Thx. I didn't have a 406 with the right spacing and Axle to use or I would have. My parts bin is huge but not infinite.
I think that there would have been more flop if both 406 because head tube angle would have been back to stock, and would equate to a bigger caster angle.

I will get around to it, I just need to snag some inserts for a skewer.

 

[barung]

I'd love a q45 but the seats too high for me, I think. The web site doesn't list it as available as a frameset so it means a heap of parts to throw away and replace which I'm not keen on either. It makes building a 406 version an expensive exercise. Whether to go T50 frameset and have no suspension or sit on the fence hoping another version of q45 will become available. I noticed a comment that building 2 versions was too expensive but DF manufacturers manage to build their frames in up to 6 sizes. Why is it so hard for bent manufacturers to build 2 sizes?

 

[benphyr]

Why is it so hard for bent manufacturers to build 2 sizes?

Recumbent manufacturers typically sell WAY fewer frames per year. If the volume of each model were the same as for an upright you would likely see more options, models, and sizes, probably in that order because of return on investment - it takes a lot to develop and test new models and sizes plus re-tool for the manufacturing/production end of things. And that would mean holding a larger volume of stock on hand etc.

A couple possibilities: What about buying a used Quest/QX100/Q45? Quest 451s came with 451 wheels - if you can find one of those for sale you would have a great testing ground. If you were to buy a T50 frameset and build it up with smaller wheels that may answer the seat height issue for you - suspension is not necessary if you are riding on paved roads. I rode a conversion kit with 1.5" tires for a couple summers - it is in my avatar picture. Not only does it not have suspension but back is supported by seat stays that run directly from the rear axle to the seat mount. I'm not a tough guy - the tires absorb a pile of bumps when at the right pressure. Anyway, food for thought.

 

[Leif]

I kinda wish they'd go a little bigger. I'm 6'2" with 47" x-seam and had to modify both the S40 and V20 to fit me. Out of the box, proper arm extension (for me) meant thighs hitting the handle bars which drove me nuts! Long(er) reach drop bars would probably help a lot but I'm not aware of any out there that even come close, and I've tried quite a few (bull horns too). I've even explored having custom bars made but for the cost of a 'one off', I could buy a whole new bike. Current solution is trimmed steer tube extenders which raise the bars just enough for thigh clearance. Looks a little funky, but not as much as the curved slider IMO.