Cd*A testing in preparation for the WTTC in November

Jim Parker

Cruzbike, Inc. Director
Staff member
Maria and I went out for a 40 mile training ride this morning, including four out-and-back laps on the "Tropical Trail" which is a beautiful road that is only a few meters from the Indian River on the Space Coast of Florida. Maria started out with a stock rear wheel, and I started out with a full disk wheel on the rear. Because it's hard to find a non-drive full disk wheel, we had these specially made to be tubeless-ready, with thru-axle hubs, and disk-brake compatible (we have a small number of these in stock on our warehouse clearance page). After two laps, we switched rear wheels, and did two more laps. I broke down each lap into a northbound (NB) and southbound (SB) segment, so there are 8 eight segments for each of us. I cut out places where we had to use our brakes and stop, just capturing the moving segments, which were each about 4 miles long. I would have preferred a quiet loop course where no brakes were required, but there aren't any around here.

I entered the speed, power, rider/bike weights, road surface, and atmospheric conditions into a spreadsheet and calculated the Cd*A. On average, the Cd*A was 0.0211 lower with the disk wheel. That may not sound like much, but in the 21-23 mph range, that is equal to a benefit of about 0.62 mph. In other words, with the disk wheel, on a flat course and all other things being equal, after one hour of cycling, you would be 1000 meters ahead of your twin riding the stock wheel. Extrapolate that to a 24-hour race, and now you are 24 km ahead.

My V20C has the extra-long chainstay, so I have already moved my feet up into an optimum position since I have a 43.5 inch x-seam. We have not yet begun working on other aero-optimizing techniques (helmets, clothing, handlebars, etc.) so hopefully before November we will work these Cd*A numbers down. A big one I could do is lose weight. I am about 16 lbs. heavier than I was when I raced in RAAM 2017. I had my Cd*A down to about .225 then, which is pretty good for a tall guy. Maria can get hers under .20, which is amazing. I am currently using the stock handlebar, which is very wide. I will switch to a narrower bar (but one that is still comfortable and gives clearance so my thumbs don't quite brush my thighs). I like the Ritchey Comp Evomax handlebar in 44cm. It fits me well and is affordable. I cut about 5 cm from the un-used bar ends (to save weight, reduce drag, and improve clearance when moving the bike around).

Here is the data table from this morning's testing:
CdA data for rear disk.JPG
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Maria and I went out for a 40 mile training ride this morning, including four out-and-back laps on the "Tropical Trail" which is a beautiful road that is only a few meters from the Indian River on the Space Coast of Florida. Maria started out with a stock rear wheel, and I started out with a full disk wheel on the rear. Because it's hard to find a non-drive full disk wheel, we had these specially made to be tubeless-ready, with thru-axle hubs, and disk-brake compatible (we have a small number of these in stock on our warehouse clearance page). After two laps, we switched rear wheels, and did two more laps. I broke down each lap into a northbound (NB) and southbound (SB) segment, so there are 8 eight segments for each of us. I cut out places where we had to use our brakes and stop, just capturing the moving segments, which were each about 4 miles long. I would have preferred a quiet loop course where no brakes were required, but there aren't any around here.

I entered the speed, power, rider/bike weights, road surface, and atmospheric conditions into a spreadsheet and calculated the Cd*A. On average, the Cd*A was 0.0211 lower with the disk wheel. That may not sound like much, but in the 21-23 mph range, that is equal to a benefit of about 0.62 mph. In other words, with the disk wheel, on a flat course and all other things being equal, after one hour of cycling, you would be 1000 meters ahead of your twin riding the stock wheel. Extrapolate that to a 24-hour race, and now you are 24 km ahead.

My V20C has the extra-long chainstay, so I have already moved my feet up into an optimum position since I have a 43.5 inch x-seam. We have not yet begun working on other aero-optimizing techniques (helmets, clothing, handlebars, etc.) so hopefully before November we will work these Cd*A numbers down. A big one I could do is lose weight. I am about 16 lbs. heavier than I was when I raced in RAAM 2017. I had my Cd*A down to about .225 then, which is pretty good for a tall guy. Maria can get hers under .20, which is amazing. I am currently using the stock handlebar, which is very wide. I will switch to a narrower bar (but one that is still comfortable and gives clearance so my thumbs don't quite brush my thighs). I like the Ritchey Comp Evomax handlebar in 44cm. It fits me well and is affordable. I cut about 5 cm from the un-used bar ends (to save weight, reduce drag, and improve clearance when moving the bike around).

Here is the data table from this morning's testing:
Super great data Jim!
I would suggest signing up with "myWindsock" if you have not already. It automatically pulls weather data from your time and area and uses your ride data to calculate your Cd*A on all uploaded Strava rides. It then imports the data into your Strava comment field. If anything it would be really nice to see how closely it matches your calcs (which are probably more accurate).

I invite you and Maria to come stay with me at the Cruzeum sometime later this year when you get all your other "possible equipement". We can go to the 1.1 mile circular course (on Technology Circle) that I did my 2022 Record attempt on that you helped with. (https://www.strava.com/activities/7297645625). As you know it is nealry a perfect venue for aero testing. The road surface is also a little rough and may help mimic Borrego's road surface too. I'de be happy to spend a couple days with you both swapping out equipment, riding, testing and refinning everything for your Borrego event.
 

Jim Parker

Cruzbike, Inc. Director
Staff member
Thanks, Larry. I already have too many subscription services, so I will stick with my spreadsheet. It's free and I know how to use it. I might take you up on the offer to spend some aero-testing time at Technology Circle.

Now, for the latest testing results: Maria and I did a simultaneous 8 mile out-and-back lap (not drafting), then moved the race cage from her bike to mine, before doing another lap. Results are below. Not as dramatic a change as the disk wheel, but the Cd*A improvement corresponds to an additional 0.2mph at the same power from a very practical and light storage box. That is a WIN.

1715107888450.png
 
It is now available on the website for sale. $220
I started a thread about the new Race Cage. Pics included.
 

MaxLean

New Member
Thanks, Larry. I already have too many subscription services, so I will stick with my spreadsheet. It's free and I know how to use it. I might take you up on the offer to spend some aero-testing time at Technology Circle.

Now, for the latest testing results: Maria and I did a simultaneous 8 mile out-and-back lap (not drafting), then moved the race cage from her bike to mine, before doing another lap. Results are below. Not as dramatic a change as the disk wheel, but the Cd*A improvement corresponds to an additional 0.2mph at the same power from a very practical and light storage box. That is a WIN.

You said “light.“ do you have the actual weight?
 

ccf

Guru
Thanks, Larry. I already have too many subscription services, so I will stick with my spreadsheet. It's free and I know how to use it. I might take you up on the offer to spend some aero-testing time at Technology Circle.

Now, for the latest testing results: Maria and I did a simultaneous 8 mile out-and-back lap (not drafting), then moved the race cage from her bike to mine, before doing another lap. Results are below. Not as dramatic a change as the disk wheel, but the Cd*A improvement corresponds to an additional 0.2mph at the same power from a very practical and light storage box. That is a WIN.

View attachment 17063
In the “without race cage” condition, what was behind the seat?
 

Karl42

Well-Known Member
@Jim Parker
Can you share a little bit more insight about how you calculate the Cd*A? Is it just a spreadsheet with some formulas?

I know the free program GoldenCheetah has some functions for this, and I want to learn how to use that to optimize my setup.
 
I believe Jim uses the Chung Method. A deep dive can be fount here:

That GoldenCheetah app looks like it may be useful, I’ll give it a try.
I use mywindsock.com to estimate for me. To compare setups, clothing, helmets, and such you should use a fairly flat circular route where you don’t touch the brakes. I think drivetrain losses and rolling resistance is estimated by the program.

A few years ago Larry hosted a Time Trial Challenge. Here’s my results of the last half. Even though conditions were essentially the same, some variation is apparent.
1717369247434.jpeg
 
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Karl42

Well-Known Member
I believe Jim uses the Chung Method. A deep dive can be fount here:
That GoldenCheetah app looks like it may be useful, I’ll give it a try.

GoldenCheetah also uses the Chung Method also with its Aerolab feature. If you search the web for "goldencheetah aero" you'll find several tutorials for this.
 

cruzKurt

Guru
I believe Jim uses the Chung Method. A deep dive can be fount here:

That GoldenCheetah app looks like it may be useful, I’ll give it a try.
I use mywindsock.com to estimate for me. To compare setups, clothing, helmets, and such you should use a fairly flat circular route where you don’t touch the brakes. I think drivetrain losses and rolling resistance is estimated by the program.

A few years ago Larry hosted a Time Trial Challenge. Here’s my results of the last half. Even though conditions were essentially the same, some variation is apparent.
View attachment 17225
Trying to understand what your chart is showing, what are the axis labels? Watts and MPH?
 

Bo6

Active Member
GoldenCheetah also uses the Chung Method also with its Aerolab feature. If you search the web for "goldencheetah aero" you'll find several tutorials for this.
Thanks for the Chun Method info. It cost several hours down the "rabbit hole" but was very interesting information.
 
Trying to understand what your chart is showing, what are the axis labels? Watts and MPH?
Yes, MPH & Watts. As you can see, that summer my training bumped my fitness up. I may repeat that time trial segment and record the calculated CdA on a spreadsheet like Jim and Larry have shared with us.
I’d like to know the exact penalty of using my sun/rain visor, my flag, or under seat water bottle.
 
Jim’s data (above) show the effect of the disc wheel and Race Cage. Another variable I’m interested in is the stock seat vs. the Adjustable Carbon Fiber seat & Headrest.
 

Jim Parker

Cruzbike, Inc. Director
Staff member
Jim’s data (above) show the effect of the disc wheel and Race Cage. Another variable I’m interested in is the stock seat vs. the Adjustable Carbon Fiber seat & Headrest.
The stock seat is a bit more aero than the CF adjustable seat. Anything that sits you up higher into clean air is going to increase drag. It may be worth it if you are more comfortable. In other words, the ergonomic gain may be worth the aerodynamic cost.
 
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LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Jim’s data (above) show the effect of the disc wheel and Race Cage. Another variable I’m interested in is the stock seat vs. the Adjustable Carbon Fiber seat & Headrest.
Here is my recent data comparing stock and CF adj seat with an array of other mods.'I have found that (for me) if I change my chainstay from 19.5 to 21.5 inches and get my feet up higher, the penalty for the CF seat-back being higher is not so back. Maybe not acceptable for a Record Attempt - but probably still OK for crushing the spirits of upright riders half your age!
1717772893905.png
 
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