Coming out- New Silvio Build

[TalleyHo]

I have a confession to make... I've been lurking in the shadows of this forum for months..... but now I'm out!

And in these months I've acquired a Silvio 2.1, components and tooling to do the build and only lack the time to get on with it. As that time nears, still about 4 weeks, I find myself questioning my original plan of doing drop bars and brifters. Since i'm coming from 20 years of exclusive recumbent riding, i have never used a brifter and have always had bar end shifting whenever possible, liking, especially, the direct tactile connection to the gearing in friction mode.

Originally I thought I'd do like most, it seems, and use the supplied drop bar but I gotta say I'm really attracted to the bullhorn look and feel, as I imagine it. Also, with my 46 inch x-seam and 150 mm extension which I'll be installing due to my interest in maximum aero as well as max closed posture, I'm wondering if a leg-bar interference issue might be likely with drop bars and improved with bullhorn bars. Is that so and if so then my question is what bullhorns to use? Please inform me of the specs and options, if any, of the Cruzbike bullhorn kit. What is the width and reach available and how is this system working for people. From what I can gather from my search on this subject it seems like the Cruzbike kit is well thought out, as is everything with this company. I'd be interested in feedback and the pros and cons of different bullhorn approaches and also opinions on the benefits or liabilities of brifters. BTW, I have acquired a groupo with brifters and was surprised and dismayed at their weight.

 

[Gromit]

Bullhorns on Silvio 2.1

Check out some of the later posts in the thread below for ideas about bullhorns on the Silvio 2.1.
http://www.cruzbike.com/carbon-handlebar-option

 

[Ivan]

Welcome to the light! You

Welcome to the light! You will now be pestered for photos and updates of your build! You will not have any interference with the supplied flared bars and brifter setup. I am roadie so I loved my brifters, but if you are used to bar end shifting then I am sure the Cruzbike bullhorns will be to your liking.

The possibility of leg-handlebar interference increases the lower your handlebars are. But even in the "worst case" with very low handlebars and regular 44cm drop bars, like I am running as you would know from my pics, this is not a significant problem. May be a but tougher to learn MBB in the beginning but after that no issues. And I ride in denser traffic than most of the people on this forum. Here is my Silvio on my recent century with almost horizontal boom and my low drop bars. My arms are almost fully straight in this pic, similar to a bullhorn hand position.

 

[TalleyHo]

Cruzbike bullhorn bar kit

I'm familiar with about everything here on bullhorn bars and yet am still mystified a bit. What I really need to know now is about the Cruzbike answer to bullhorn bars. What size or sizes, what kind of shifters, what kind of levers come with this kit. I'm thinking that 44 cm is minimum. What's peoples experience with this? I'm liking what I think I'm seeing with the Cruzbike offering but i'm not sure what it is.

 

[John Tolhurst]

http://cruzbike.com/bullhorn-

http://cruzbike.com/bullhorn-bars-vendetta-or-silvio

They are listed as an option on cruzbike.com/vendetta.

The brakes are high spec and very lightweight, but I have never been very happy with the stopping power I've been able to get.

The bars are designed by me, there is a standard and extra large size available.

The set comes with cables and is very light.

The set lacks a pair metal shifter housing cap, needed for where the housing meets the wedge nut, which occurs inside the bar tube.

 

[iow]

talleyho, don't discount

talleyho, don't discount drops and brifters.
i first built my S2.0 with dura ace barend shifters mounted on the end of the original flared drops. it all worked, and there were no interference issues.
i then had the chance to buy a set of 105 brifters at a v.good price, so i thought i'd give them another go - i'd always swapped out brifters and rapid fire shifters on my road and mtb df's and my bacchetta giro for barend shifters mounted on the bar end or thumb brackets for the same reasons you mention.
i can only say that the brifters have transformed the cockpit ergonomics - changes can be made from the hoods or drops and no more having to slide my hands down to the end of the drops to change gear. being able to brake and change gear at the same time is great for fast cornering or approaching road junctions etc.
it's not often that i have such a complete change of mind, but i now wouldn't fit bullhorns because i couldn't use brifters!
enjoy your build.

ivan, another stunning photo!

 

[TalleyHo]

drops and brifters it is.. for now

Thanks all for the input on the bullhorn vs drops issue. I'm still attracted to the ergonomics of bullhorns for me but also still not seeing a clear way with that route so I'm back to relishing the idea of drops and brifters. I can imagine that brifters are the uiltimate in precise control and look forward to learning that; hopefully I won't need to compromise much with ergonomics of bar due to interference. And the good news is I'm seeing the time to find out just a week or so away. I can't wait for the FWD learning curve adventure and then the engine tune up period. I live somewhat isolated down a peninsula along the Maine coast (fantastic scenery and rolling terrain) and so have taken time trialing against myself. It will be interesting to me how the Silvio stacks up against my current/previous ride, a very nice Bacchetta Corsa. So when I have something to show I'll be back with to show/report. Thanks

 

[mzweili]

Brifters

iow, could you please publish a picture of your cockpit setup?

 

[Tuloose]

I will give you my opinion

I will give you my opinion TallyHo, which will differ somewhat from that of iow's.
I have never tried the bull horn bars you mention. The flared drops came standard with my Silvio 2.0. They work very well for me - comfortable and wide enough to allow leveraging to counteract against the force applied to the boom by one's legs.

The brifters, however, are another matter.
I really do not like the brifters at all.
The only advantage I can see to them is that they allow quick access to gear changes.
The problem with brifters, compared to the bar end shifters on my Lightning P-38, is that there is no visual indication of which gear I happen to be in. The crank set on my Silvio is obscured by the handlebar so the only method I have of determining which of the 3 rings I am in is by rising up out of the recline position. I have no way of seeing down to the cogs and with the 10 spd, 11-28 cog set that I have the changes between gears are very slight making it difficult to determine if I have actually performed a shift or not.
The other problem with the brifters is that when I swing the small lever for a gear change, as often as not the lever swings freely back & forth, accomplishing nothing. Multiple attempts will usually remedy the problem but it is hit or miss, not the more direct connection you are accustomed to with bar end shifters.
Shifting to a lower gear with the right hand large lever is also a problem. Swing the lever just a bit too far and now you are in between gears, necessitating a shift back to your original gear to start all over again.
Brifters are not forgiving of small mistakes.
In addition to all the above, the internal workings are complex - not very user serviceable and they are more of a problem to re cable.
I am seriously considering making the switch to bar ends at some future time.

 

[Eric Winn]

SRAM DoubleTap brifters are

SRAM DoubleTap brifters are wonderful....

-Eric

 

[Gromit]

Alternative way of mounting bar-end shifters?

Came across the Acor Double Bracket Alloy Bar Extension after I had been browsing another cycling forum.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Acor-Bracket-Extension-Diameter-Handlebars/dp/B007ZBRROO
What about putting bar-end shifters into each end of a short section of handlebar tube, mounted in the Acor bracket? Unlike the Paul Thumbies, this wouldn't take up quite so much handlebar space. A cycle computer or a light might even fit in the unused section in the middle?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I've seen some Shimano

I've seen some Shimano brifters with gear indicators builtin. Shimano and Sram brifters are quite different from each other. Head down to a bike shop and check out a bike with each of the two brands, you maybe able to determine which method will work best for you. I too, had to learn brifters, I have the Sram double tap, which work pretty good, but am not able to to figure out when I'm topped out or bottomed out in my gear range. I will sit up and look down at the cassette sometimes. So with me the verdict is still out whether or not I keep them or go with something else. If you really like bar-end shifters and have some on hand try them out first. Too bad there is not an other option for handle bars other than road type, bullhorn or drop.

 

[John Tolhurst]

First I've heard that not

First I've heard that not knowing what ring you are in is an issue, or that not recognising a change on the cluster because of tight ratios.

The indicators are found on the microshift range of brifters.

I like the lighter touch of the shimano over the double taps - that is a personal choice.

 

[Ivan]

Tuloose, your critique of

Tuloose, your critique of brifters is based on your current setup which sounds like something is wrong. A good set of brifters will NEVER miss a gear change unless something is badly adjusted or mechanically wrong. Your description of shifting with large lever sounds like you are using Shimano. What group? Because missing shifts like that should never happen.

SRAM, Shimano, Campy and the latest cheapest player Microshift all have different mechanisms. I have re-cables all above except Microshift and they are not difficult, just peel back the hood and push the cable to see where it comes out. Regarding gear indication, only low end groups tend to have that feature as it is assumed you know where you are by feel and cadence. There were some with electronic gear indication sent to your cycle computer, but not popular as no DF roadie should ever be looking down at his chainrings while riding or shifting.

 

[TalleyHo]

The jury is out on drops/brifters

Thanks for your opinion Tuloose, Rick, Ivan, Eric and John. I have my doubts about brifters, their complexity, their weight and it's yet another thing to learn while tackling MBB but they are potentially the ultimate in some ways, I see. I have begun the build today, actually, and will soon see how the ergonomics are regarding drop bar location; will I have the full reach I want without leg interference using the 150mm extension? If it seems good then I'll go with the drops otherwise I suspect I'll be seeking the bullhorn solution.

 

[ratz]

Finding the gear

Missed shifts definitely sound like something is out of true; or the shifters; cassette and derailluers are miss matched. (I see people put 10 and 9's together all the time).

If they are Shimano compatible then you can google "Shimano Inline Gear Indicator " and add that to you cable line so you can see what gear you are in. Back in the good only days when we all went from down tube shifters to brifters; all the high end shimano had those. If you were really fancy you had a "flight deck" where the computer was integrated with the shifters and you had a digital display of what gear you were in

Don't know of any equivalent for SRAM.

I will say this, I haven't ridden a two wheel bike with bar end shifters since 1988. I'd forgotten how simple and precise they are; not really missing the brifters at this point. We'll see how that opinion holds as the miles accumulate.

 

[iow]

mzweili - its just a standard

mzweili - its just a standard setup now. ie drops and brifters.

 

[TalleyHo]

The Jury is in

Last evening, just a few days after making my first forum post here or anywhere, I mustered the gumption to tackle my resistance mechanical, applied the ratz strategy of Sleep-is-Optional and by mid morning today was able to find out if my concerns regarding leg and arm issues using a drop bar with 150mm extension were valid. I can say that they appear to be valid. The photo shows the BB properly adjusted for my xseam but in that position i'm concerned about two things... 1) there is slight leg interference with the out board aspect of bar while 2) my arms are already more bent than I like (35-40 degrees off of straight). I'm looking for an arm bend of 15 to 20 degrees- I'm fussy about this, I know, but for some reason a big bend is intolerable- I don't know how anyone can use hamster style bars.

So is something set up wrong for this bad fit that anyone can see? I do like the height of the bottom bracket but perhaps this is a bit radical for a Silvio. I can tell you that this extended front end assembly really could do with a major handle to keep it under control... is my initial impression. It has seemed for a while, and now even more, that a wide, well extended bullhorn bar would provide that handle, reduce that arm bend and allow the slider to come back a touch. Help, please!

Dave

 

[Tuloose]

Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback everybody.
The inline gear indicator will not work with my Shimano Ultegra brifters. The gear cable leaves the lever and goes right under the bar tape so there is no place to mount the indicator.

As far as missing a shift - well I just mounted my Silvio on the work stand and ran it through the gears.
The right large lever, the brake/shift lever, will shift down 2 gears if pushed all the way through it's available limits of motion. To shift just 1 gear requires pushing the lever until a slight click is felt. Pushing past that click but not going so far as to affect a 2 gear shift will result in being between gears.
This is not an adjustment issue and maybe SRAM brifters are different but the Shimano brifters will shift 2 gears (downshift) on the large lever but only one gear at a time (upshift) when the small lever is activated.

Personally I would rather know what gear combo I am in at all times. This is especially important in planning ahead when approaching a big climb. Waiting too long to shift into the granny ring (I have a triple) can make the downshift impossible. Knowing what cog I am in beforehand can help me plan out my granny shift ahead of time.

The old SRAM twist grip shifters I have on our Rans tandem are simple, sturdy, easy to maintain and clearly indicate what cog is engaged.
Shimano has chosen to the path of greater complexity.

 

[TalleyHo]

reducing extension to 100mm

I've decided to take ratz up on his kind offer and to give his available 100 mm extender a try and I've emailed him regarding that. I think I'm quite OK with lowering the BB although the height now is about what I've come to be used to currently. However the slight upward and forward positioning that this change will give, I suspect, will still not give the full reach I'd prefer. But let's find out. It's a conservative approach; I can always go to bullhorns and i'm in no rush (no sign of spring)

Dave