Considering moving from an M5 Carbon High Racer to a V20

[Enid]

Curious to hear your thoughts. Larry said that the bikes are similar in speed. The Cruzbike produces a bit more drag with most riders (CdA of about 0.2 +/0.05) than an M5 Carbon High Racer (a CdA of about .15 +/- 0.03). The M5 only fits large riders, which is why the CdA of the V20 probably has a wider range. I've been wanting to make the jump to a Cruzbike just for the ability to handle wider tires and mount disk brakes. Both bikes climb amazingly well, with the M5 holding its own against a bike with a triangulated bottom bracket probably because the frame is massively overbuilt and therefore quite stiff. Marco's data on climbing show very similar results, between his carbon V20 clone and an M5 anyway, with both being roughly similar to a DF (faster on less steep hills and slower on steeper hills).

The biggest thing that makes we want to hop over to a V20 though is the ability to fly with it. Totally impossible with an M5.

Has anyone ridden both?

 

[Tim Lyke]

I have not ridden the M5, but am readying my second v20 for sale so I can get a M5 CHR as a second bike to experiment with. Will be following this thread for sure to see how it goes.

What version is the v20 you are getting ready to sell?

 

[Tim Lyke]

It's actually a new Frame and parts I purchased to build a v20 for my Wahoo Kickr. It is like 2019-ish I guess. It looks just like my 2019, but yellow and different graphics.

 

[Tim Lyke]

Send me a picture and your location if you decide to sell …… tlyke7@gmail.com …… i would likely be interested without a complete build

 

[cruzKurt]

......

The biggest thing that makes we want to hop over to a V20 though is the ability to fly with it. Totally impossible with an M5.

Curious as to why you think you can't 'fly' with the M5.

 

[LarryOz]

Curious to hear your thoughts. Larry said that the bikes are similar in speed. The Cruzbike produces a bit more drag with most riders (CdA of about 0.2 +/0.05) than an M5 Carbon High Racer (a CdA of about .15 +/- 0.03). The M5 only fits large riders, which is why the CdA of the V20 probably has a wider range. I've been wanting to make the jump to a Cruzbike just for the ability to handle wider tires and mount disk brakes. Both bikes climb amazingly well, with the M5 holding its own against a bike with a triangulated bottom bracket probably because the frame is massively overbuilt and therefore quite stiff. Marco's data on climbing show very similar results, between his carbon V20 clone and an M5 anyway, with both being roughly similar to a DF (faster on less steep hills and slower on steeper hills).

The biggest thing that makes we want to hop over to a V20 though is the ability to fly with it. Totally impossible with an M5.

Has anyone ridden both?

I have had both and did much testing side by side many years ago.

The M5 CHR had a Kent Polk railgun seat and tailbox, setup with gunner grips, and 140mm cranks - I think the seat angle was about 6 degrees

My biggest challenge with the M5 was that I am 5'7". It is really build for taller people. I did manage to get it fitted to me by using 140mm cranks and pulling the BB very close and sliding the seat forward a little too. This however caused crank strike when the wheel was turned too much
The other issue with the M5 was chain rub on the front week too since it is a RWD.
The chain rub and crank strike were really only issues during starting an slow turning, but it did cause me to fail quite a few times.

The Vendetta was a V20 with Cruzbike racecase, curved slider and 140mm pedals. Seat at 20 degrees
I interchanged the wheels - they were Flo 90's.
I thought the M5 would be faster due to the special seat and integrated case behind it - but it was not.

The bikes were virtually the same speed for the same power - and I tested them on a closed track at various power levels one right after the other so the conditions were also matched up.

I choose the 20 over the M5 because of the chain and crank strike plus seat much flatter too.
If the M5 would have be significantly faster I probably would have lived with it but since they were the same speed the V20 was the easy choice.
From the US standpoint - Cruzbike parts are also easier to come by - since M5 production is in Netherlands and generally more expensive
.
Hope this helps,
Larry

 

[BJ686]

I've owned both, and both are great bikes and are fairly similar in geometry from a seat to bottom bracket standpoint. However, I felt like both rode very differently given that one is a rear wheel drive with tiller stilling, and the other is MBB with road bike handlebars. Also, I'm not a racer, but would guess you could make the M5 more aero given that you can lower the seat angle more than on the V20, and due to the preying mantis style handlebars creating less arm width.

Having said that, I ended up preferring the V20. I really like the MBB feel, and felt more comfortable and in control on the bike than I did on the M5. Also, got tired of dealing with the M5 chainline. Ultimately, I think it probably boils down to whether or not you like MBB vs. FWD, or whether or not you like the tiller steering of the M5. Also, the new V20c has flat mount disc brakes, through axle and room for wide tires and uses standard road bike components, which the M5 does not.

I would add this---it takes a while to get used to MBB if you have not used it before, and unfortunately it is difficult to compare if only doing a short test ride. I mentioned feeling more comfortable and in control on the V20---I definitely found that to be true for me but it took more than a test ride to figure this out. I always felt like I was stuck in a rigid position on the M5 as opposed to the V20. I know its not always economically efficient, but I usually recommend to folks that are seriously considering a Cruzbike to find a used one and buy it and ride a few hundred miles and give it a really fair shake before deciding if you like it or not.

 

[Beano]

Curious as to why you think you can't 'fly' with the M5.

I read that as travelling with an M5.

 

[Apollo]

I read that as travelling with an M5.

Yeah, he's probably referring to the frame length of the CHR. It's a fairly long bike. Cruzbike frames can be broken down for more compact shipping is my guess.

 

[ed72]

You can put the M5 chassis and seat into a snowboard case and the wheels into another box, but of course that is checking two pieces of luggage and depending on one's FF status or how much they pay for a credit card, it would cost extra baggage.

I doubt there is much difference between the M5 and V20 on most courses but with tight corners, it has been my experience that the shorter wheelbase V20 has an advantage race wise. With a lot of work and testing and as a big rider, I was able to get my aerodynamics very good on an M5. Around 285-290 watts to do just over 30 mph (19:20 for 10 miles). A huge advantage to the V20 is ability to fit larger width tires compared to the M5 and IIRC, the new one can use disc brakes. THAT is game over.

 

[Enid]

Curious as to why you think you can't 'fly' with the M5.

Yes, I mean getting on an airplane. A V20 will fit in a bike case. I will need to avoid some of my favorite rides as they are too steep for a FWD bike. I might end up with a Bacchetta, which can go into a snowboard case.