Contemplating a Switch from Mountain Bike to a Cruzbike...

[wedge1020]

Hi,

I would not consider myself any sort of extreme cycler, more of just someone who uses it for exercise, an enjoying ride around town and area trails, and errand running.

For years I've been using a pieced together Trek 850 mountain bike frame, with a 21-speed (3x7) setup. I started with rather thick tires (1.95+inch), moved down to 1.75inch, 1.50inch, and last spring migrated to some Panaracer 26x1.25inch Urban Max tires.

Being aware of the long term health implications, and certainly experiencing numbness in the hands and wrists, I've been looking around for alternatives, and finally decided to research the whole recumbent bicycle scene. I stumbled across cruzbike after migrating through other manufacturer websites, and found what I think is a desirable match, and have my sights set currently on a SofRider 16-speed bike.

Now, some questions I'd like to ask (and would appreciate any translations to better bike terminology.. I'm still familiarizing myself with it all):

- I have heard that mountain bikes are preferable over road bikes for inclines such as hills. I live in upstate NY, and my recreational routes do have their fair share of hills. By standing while pedaling, I can get to the top. As of late I can also sit and pedal, which is obviously the primary means on a cruzbike.

I also hear that the gearing is different on road bikes vs. mountain bikes. Road bikes being suited more for higher gears, faster, flatter surfaces; whereas mountain bike gears go lower to handle those steeper inclines.

So, my question is-- if I'm used to pedaling up a hill in the lowest of gears on my current bike, would the sofrider have comparable gearing to what I am used to (especially on this low end)?

- When I went to the 1.25inch tires, I found (obviously) I could go faster and to higher gears with greater ease. In some respects, the highest gearing on my mountain bike I've found inadequate in certain settings (going down a hill, and even on flat surfaces when the wind is at my back). If I've provided enough information on my mountain bike's transmission, is the Sofrider's 16-speed transmission? Is it even comparable?

- Thoughts on using the Panaracer Urban Max tires vs. the Sofrider default? Even a possible comparison? Being 26x1.25, I think I read somewhere a reference to almost wanting thicker tires on a recumbent, I guess the Sofrider comes with 26x1.5... any truth to that?

- Last year I finally replaced my wheels/rims(?), ended up buying a pair of Mavic X517's (spoke position seems to be set to "32", where 28 and 35 were two other values); anyone able to offer a comparison on how these compare to the default wheels/rims on the sofrider? Is there even a basis for comparison (ie is there a "mountain bike" vs. "road bike" difference?)

- If there is a compatibility, and a reason to want to, would such rims be usable on the sofrider? From what I understand, I'd likely need to adapt one of them with the appropriate cassette... and perhaps the spokes would need adjusting to a different density?

- Aside from the obvious configuration differences of various components... would the Sofrider prove to be a major difference to a bike mechanic? There are no registered Cruzbike dealers within a 3+ hour distance of me, so if I got stuck (for example, on the brakes, or chain, or spoke adjustments), would this be something any mechanic wouldn't have huge problems adjusting to?

- I see references to some cruzbikes being similar enough in size to allow usage with existing bike racks.. is this the case with the Sofrider? I have a Saris Bones 2-bike rack, which fits my Trek nicely (but is starting to show its age)... just want to make sure of any particulars I'd need to look out for.

Although I know any dramatic shift in paradigm can preclude certain 1:1 comparisons... I would like to make sure I have something that isn't hugely different in performance for my terrain and strength. I expect to make some adjustments in biking style, but just want to try and get a clear picture on any other investments I might find myself making.

I apologize for any inabilities to use proper bike terminology.. as I said, I'm still figuring all this out.

Thanks for any insights that can be offered.

-Matthew

 

[John Tolhurst]

Hello Matthew,

I'd say both mountain bikes and road bikes are good on hills, they both can be given low enough gearing for just about any grade. The difference is in the road surface.

Actually mountain bikes are the dumbest of creations. They are used principally on good road surfaces by people who don't ride gravel roads up steep mountains, who probably never even imagined such riding conditions and yet, they ride a mountain bike.

History is a good teacher. Commuting should be done on commuting bikes and touring on touring bikes. Road racing on road racing bikes, mountain bike riding (the very small few that actually do it) on mountain bikes. You get the idea. Personally, I think most riding should be done on a recumbent, due to health reasons http://www.cruzbike.com/health.html, and if that is the case, then you should choose a recumbent that allows use of the whole body like a cruzbike http://www.cruzbike.com/ergonomics.html. While you don't literally stand out of the saddle, you do in fact work those sames muscles due to the unique front wheel drive system.

You can put a triple ringed crankset on a road bike and a mountain bike will still have lower gearing, but, if you are on a good surface, a road bike tire will give you a lower rolling resistance and you'll climb just as steep a hill without those last few gears.

Anyway ... the Sofrider 16 speed is very well suited to recreational riding, commuting, touring. It uses standard parts, to any bike shop can service it. Its gearing will let you run with road bikes, as well as climb when needed.

If you want to study the gearing difference between your current bike and a Sofrider, then I recommend Sheldon Brown's gain ratio calculator. You'll find in practice that the gears on the Sofrider have been carefully chosen.

Sofrider has 1.5" 100psi tires, that roll very well. For loose surfaces, run them at a lower pressure, say 45psi.

Please bring any and all questions, and welcome.

 

[KenM]

Quote: So, my question is-- if I'm used to pedaling up a hill in the lowest of gears on my current bike, would the sofrider have comparable gearing to what I am used to (especially on this low end)?

In my (limited) experience, when I first switched to the Cruzbike Sofrider I found really steep hills harder than on my conventional Giant Innova hybrid bike, but over a few weeks, as I am getting used to the Cruzbike, I'm finding the effort about the same. I suspect that in due course it may even be a little easier. On the other hand gentle hills and the flat possibly seemed easier.

Quote: - Aside from the obvious configuration differences of various components... would the Sofrider prove to be a major difference to a bike mechanic?

My local bike shop has not had the slightest problem with it. All the components are entirely standard.

Quote: - I see references to some cruzbikes being similar enough in size to allow usage with existing bike racks.. is this the case with the Sofrider?

My towbar mounted "beak" style rack won't hold my Sofrider, however its easier to fit into the back of my car with the back seats folded down than my conventional bike. I might investigate a roof rack in due course.

As for comfort and endurance, the Sofrider is miles ahead of my conventional bike! :lol:

Cheers,
-Ken

 

[hardtdavid]

Hi, Matthew,

The Cruzbike gurus will answer all you're technical questions soon, no doubt. What I can offer is a couple of years of experience owning and modifying a Sofrider according to many of the same concerns you raise about switching from a "normal" bike to the "one weird one that actually makes more sense."

The short answer to all you questions is: Any modification or characteristic you would be concerned with on your mountain bike can be modified/addressed on a Cruzbike using any standard bicycle parts. Your mind and body will take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months to get used to the cruzbike, but once you do, it can and will do anything you already do on your mountain bike. And it has further capabilities if you branch out to touring for example.

More specifically to your questions (in order):

1. Gearing for hills: first, generally any bike can be geared for the terrain the rider intends to travel. Even a road/racing bike can be geared for mountainous terrain (such as the Alps for the Tour de France). Mountain bikes simply start out being better geared for slow steep climbing on uneven surfaces.

That being said, if you have a true mountain bike (meaning your bike has a very small third chain ring, probably around 22 or 24 teeth), the lowest gears on your mountain bike will be lower than the lowest gears on the stock Sofrider (which is a 34 chainring going to a 32 rear sprocket). Your mountain bike can probably go to a 24 chainring to rear sprockets of 25 to 32 or so, which are lower gears. The lowest ones are significantly lower.

However, you can replace easily the standard double chain ring with a mountain bike triple to get comparable gearing.

Even so, it may take weeks or months before you feel as strong going up any of your steepest hills. The cruzbike riding position uses muscles that don't get used to much in upright riding. You will end up stronger in the end, but it takes a while to develop what recumbent riders call "your recumbent legs."

2. Downhill gearing: a true mountain bike would run out of top gearing, since it is designed for rugged terrain, not fast smooth downhills. The standard sofrider gearing has a higher top end, thoroughly adequate for most intermediate riders. Even on longer or steeper descents, what I have read is that once you pass 28mph or so, further effort to go faster is largely wasted: you can conserve energy by letting gravity do all the work above that speed. Tour de France riders don't pedal their way down the Alps.

On flats, a top gear of 100in. or so is probably all most riders need. If you find yourself needed to go faster, typically it won't be for a long stretch anyway, and you can get there by ramping up your cadence to 110 or 120. If you're always going faster, and never using your lowest gears, well, that's when you know to change your whole gearing setup to something higher.

3. Panaracer tires vs stock: I can't speak to Panaracer, but you'll find numerous posts about cruzbikers who have switched to narrower Schwalbe Stelvios, and others to wider Schwalbe Kojak's, Big Apples, and Marathons. The bottom line: you run any tire that you think will suit the type of riding you want to do, or that will achieve a certain riding characteristic you desire.

Example: I wanted more "road feel" on less than smooth roads. So, I've opted for Schwalbe Marathon Supremes with 42mm front width and 50mm rear width---that's right, two different tires widths. It has achieved exactly the feel I was looking for, and their plenty fast.

By the way, you said "obviously faster" for two 1.25 tire replacement. It might be obvious only for a mountain bike, whose original knobby wide tires would be slow. Current research on road and touring tires demonstrates that there are many variables to rolling resistance and speed other than tire width, and that wider tires can be just as fast as skinnies. Moreover, the wider tires can improve both the handling of many bikes (some of which have been set up for looks rather than what their geometries call for), and certainly the comfort of the rider. In other words: the wider Marathons I ride are not slowing me down any.

4 & 5. Rims in general, Mavic rims: you are free to choose any kind of rim you want. I upgraded my rims because I have a Sofrider V1 which came with cheap single wall rims. My bike mechanic wanted to put some Mavics on it. I opted for something more mainstream, some Swiss DT's. Bottom line: any rim will work on this bike. Get what you like.

6. Mechanics reactions: as others have already pointed out: most mechanics have seen it all, and the Sofrider and other cruzbikes use standard parts anyway. You can swap out anything on this bike for some other standard part that's more to your liking. Theirs nothing that will look or act weird to a mechanics eyes. The cruzbike is so "normal" in this regard, that they will be able to advise and suggest solutions for your needs and desires as easily as they would for an upright bike.

7. Racks: The only thing you must keep in mind is you need a bike specifically designed for bikes with rear suspension. Racks that attach at the seat post AND the rear axle will not work. The rack must attach at the seat post only. "Axiom" puts out models that can handle more weight. Other companies have usable models too. "Mountain Man" gets a lot of copy in this forum.

Point of emphasis: you will need to allow time to get used to the handling on the cruzbike. For example, I spent a few weeks riding only in parking lots, and very low traveled roads, until I felt confident enough holding a (straight) line under all conditions (climbing, descending, turning, starting, stopping, etc). This is not primarily a cruzbike concern. Most recumbents take getting used to because the center of gravity is lower. The cruzbike adds the FWD difference, too, though. You will have to be patient and determined to work at the new skills.
The reward for your efforts: a bike without the pain, but all the capabilities you need. I love my cruzbike. The only thing I would ever trade it for is another FWD recumbent.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[JonB]

hardtdavid wrote: 7. Racks: The only thing you must keep in mind is you need a bike specifically designed for bikes with rear suspension. Racks that attach at the seat post AND the rear axle will not work. The rack must attach at the seat post only. "Axiom" puts out models that can handle more weight. Other companies have usable models too. "Mountain Man" gets a lot of copy in this forum.

There has been a number of different approaches to getting a rear rack on a cruzbike sofrider/freerider (me amoung others). And a homebuild midrack (me).

 

[wedge1020]

Good day everyone,

I'd like to thank everyone who has chimed in. I must admit in my days of internet searching, I am even more convinced of my decision to have invested the time in checking out the Cruzbike Sofrider.

Something I always endeavor to do on any resource investment is to both seek out answers to my immediate questions (granted, my own amateur standing in bike mechanic terminology makes that a bit difficult both for me asking and for any thankful tolerance given by those more experienced), but also to see how other people respond between the lines and share their own experiences and insights.

And what's more, I also try and hunt out any and all aspects of complaints and shortcomings (I find that generally, in today's world), focusing on the complaints directed at a product helps me to better understand its capabilities (especially the good ones-- as I read about others who simply don't realize they're doing something wrong), but also to flesh out any substantial shortcomings I should be aware of.

With that said, all the complaints I've seen directed at Cruzbikes have seemed to stem from "that Diego guy"'s (no disrespect intended, it actually was a thoroughly insightful and helpful discourse to read through) perspective of a perceived lack acceptable component quality for a bike of this price, to the "weaving" as one gets use to the bike, and any claimed slippage problems of traveling over loose gravel/wet leaves. Additionally, I must also admit that I have not encountered the number of complaints I usually see with a product (making me spend more time going over things)... and that makes me even more intrigued and confident in determination to go this direction. I know nothing will be perfect, nor will anything representing such a difference in implement be equivalent. So by not having the expectation of such, I relish the prospect of exploring something new.

I know at a certain level that it will be a different biking experience, one that both my mind and body will have to get used to... and intellectually I find that exciting... so part of this on my part has been my own attempts at rational assurances other things fall within acceptable parameters.

To be honest, especially from my viewpoint.. my current bike I actually got for free (a friend who ran a bike shop owed me some money, and I asked for a bike as payment)... so it has always simultaneously impressed and bothered people that I've been riding this potpourri-ed clunker composed of good, decent, fair, and nothing-to-write-home-about parts for nearly 10 years now; the original builder continues to be impressed that I still ride this "thing", and a local bike shop owner/mechanic continues to do annual tune-up service and subtly encourages me to consider getting something better while offering a smile and always helpful advice. The only significant investments I've made into it are the aforementioned Mavic rims and Panaracer tires, and that was only last year.

So, seeing as I've been wanting to both take the plunge and get a new bike "one of these years", but have that coincide with my own desire to genuinely start to take some repair/maintenance matters into my own hands (aside from changing a tire or mounting a cycling computer), coupled with my own acknowledgements of and determined attempts at mitigating wrist and postural issues (I'm a Computer Science instructor, so my wrists also get a beating from that), that having that emotional and rational excitement from having discovered and learned all I could (short of actually trying one) about the Cruzbike makes this seem like something well worth my time.

Once again, thank you to everyone who contributed, both to my post, but also to everyone who has posted their experiences in general.

I look forward to becoming a bonafide member of the Cruzbike community.

-Matthew