Couple of question in regard to riding recumbent?

[fatall]

Ok, I ride about 150-200 kilometres week and I normally ride a D/F bike with my cadence at about 80, never had any pain in my knee's.

I got the Quest V2 and I have only done about 350 kilometres over the last 6 or so weeks. I am mastering the MBB cruzbike(as someone else called it, the wild weasle). So when I ride the Quest on flat ground the cadence is at about 90 or so, but as soon as I hit a hill the cadence drops to about 70 and I start to run out of gears(this doesn't happen on the same hills on the D/F bike) and I start to develop a pain in the outside of my knee's.

I also have noticed when I sleep on my side, my hips seem to be a little sore. Could the sore knee's and hips be because I am using different muscles to ride the recumbent, the so called bent muscles?

I have thought about changing the chain rings to something smaller to help with running out of gears on the hills, but will wait till I have more time on the recumbent.

Just like to know if the above is normal or something I should investigate further?

 

[John Tolhurst]

It is possible to hurt your

It is possible to hurt your knees pushing back into the seat. You might push harder than what you could on a DF, but at a lower cadence. Change down early and try not to let it get bogged down. You drop the hub into low range and shift onto the big rear sproket, and you are still running out of gears? Is that a long hill, or particularly steep? Quest with 26" wheels, right?

 

[fatall]

Thanks for you imput John. 

Thanks for you imput John. The grade of hill would be about 5% and say 500 metres long. On my D/F touring bike and I can stay in the the middle ring and adjust the gears to keep my cadence at about 80 and speed is about 17klm/hr, the same hill on the Quest with 26" wheels, I will run out of gears early and speed would be down to 14 klm/hr and cadence is about 70.

I have taken the the difference in speed and cadence is me still developing bent muscles. The knee pain I am unsure off, hence the question. Incidentally the knee pain is not very painful and doesn't last long, only appears when I am grinding up a hill and on then subsides as I ride on the flat and doesn't bother me off the bike at all?

 

[John Tolhurst]

So I think you are over

So I think you are over stressing the knee. Would be good if you can train more on the flat for a while.

 

[dalehough]

Are you sure the pedals

Are you sure the pedals aren't to close? Just asking I know on a road bike if the seat is too low it will hurt your knees.

 

[ak-tux]

Knee pain in cycling has a

Knee pain in cycling has a many possible cuases, it seems, but most common for regular cyclists, happpens when there is a change to riding position relative to the bicycle fit. It takes time for the body to adapt to a new position assuming it it is reasonably setup.

Here is a good article/blog that I found on knee pain. Although mostly refering to DF bikes, I think its a good reference point:


Part-1: http://pro-physio.blogspot.com/2010/01/leg-knee-and-hip-pain-in-cycling.html
Part-2: http://pro-physio.blogspot.com/2010/01/leg-knee-and-hip-pain-in-cycling_30.html

To quote a section of the article:

" A simple seat height adjustment may ease the forces placed on the knee. If the seat is too low, stress is placed on the knee from the patellar and quadriceps tendons and is generally felt anteriorly below the patella where the tenson inserts on the tibia. If the seat is too high, pain may develop behind the knee. "

Please also note that cleats, when improperly aligned, also add another dimension to possible knee discomfort.

Hope all this helps .....

 

[fatall]

Thanks for your

Thanks for your suggestions:
@ John Tolhurst, Not sure if I can ride without hitting some hills around here and I am not sure if I would want to. I am hoping what ak-tux has suggested it might be a matter of getting the used to the different riding style?

@ak-tux, Thanks for the link's I will read them. I think my leg is near it's full extension, there is a hint of bend in the knee? I haven't worn cleats yet, but I plan too soon, just a matter of me feeling in total control of the wild weasle ;-)

@Dale Hough, I am not sure what you mean about the pedals being to close, but I am guessing you mean are my legs near full extension?

 

[dalehough]

Yep that is what I mean poor

Yep that is what I mean poor cerculation can also cause it.

 

[bikemann42]

The pedalling motion, by it's

The pedalling motion, by it's nature on MBFWD, has to be different. You are not simply mashing up and down as on a rigid frame bike of any other kind. Your legs, hips and knees included, must resist the steering forces they impart. Call it torque steer. Remember those twisting forces that your arms had to resist in your first hours riding your new bike? They didn't just go away...your legs learned how to compensate for them. I am theorizing that your hips and knees are feeling the effects of some lateral movement to accomplish this. Experience should take care of the pains if you don't overdo it. That's my two cents from my experience on my own home-built FWD.

 

[fatall]

Torque steer is a very apt

Torque steer is a very apt name, when I first started to ride the Quest it was a bugger to start up.

I have just adjusted the boom and seat angle to give me a bit more leg angle when my leg is fully extended. I will do a 40-50 kilometre ride tomorrow to see how this adjustment feels.

I am hoping what bikemann42 has suggested that my body will get used to the different muscles and my hips and knees adapt to these forces? I guess time will tell.

 

[bikemann42]

General rule of thumb: (or

General rule of thumb: (or knee)...pain in front of knee- saddle too close. Pain in back of knee- saddle too far.

 

[fatall]

The weather gods were against

The weather gods were against me today. It was raining for most of the day.

I have a mental block, if I am dry and it is raining, I won't go out, but if I am already riding and it rains, I am ok with that....go figure.

I won't be able to see how the mods I made to the seat angle/distance to the pedal till Thursday as I am at work for the next couple of days.

Got to pay the bills somehow

 

[billyk]

high cadence! no pedal mashing!

Hi Fatall -

I learned the hard way that you must ride recumbents with a high cadence and never never never mash the pedals. With your back against the seat, fundamentally you can push recumbent pedals harder than on an upright, where the potential push is largely limited by your weight. (Think leg-press machine, where you can press much more than your weight). Especially going up uphill at low speed, you must be in a low gear. In general, I shift gears more often on a recumbent than on an upright, trying to keep my cadence as regular as possible.

For this reason, I swapped the lovely elliptical chainring on my Quest 2 for a 36-tooth round one. I climb a lot of hills and found myself mashing the pedals to do it. Low gears are knee-friendly!

 

[fatall]

I know my average cadence on

I know my average cadence on the quest on flat ground is about 90, I am in 2nd on IGH and about halfway on the rear derailleur, give me an approx speed of 25-30 klm/hour(17mph) and I am comfortable doing this, but as soon as I hit a hill, I run out of gears, and cadence drops to about 70 and speed to maybe 10 klm/hour(6mph).

I know part of the problem is my weight, 110kg(242lbs) and gravity is a bitch up hill. I just don't want to damage my knee because I love getting out on my bikes/recumbent. I still hope/think at this early stage it might be muscle are still getting used to it the difference?

 

[fatall]

OK, just returned from a

OK, just returned from a 40klm(25miles) ride and I think...think the knee problem might be sorted. I adjusted the boom, by bring it about 10mm(0.5") closer to the cockpit. I did a couple of hills, but the main hill I rode up was in a tail wind, but I had no pain in the knee's, so cross fingers, the problem could be sorted alt="enlightened"

 

[dalehough]

That is good to hear fatall.

That is good to hear fatall. I don't get ride my silvio until spring then I have do all same things you had to do

 

[fatall]

I rode to work tonight, and I

I rode to work tonight, and I rode up the steepest hill I've attempted so far on the Quest(I think the Garmin said something about 7-9%). I honestly thought I would have to walk part of it, but I actually made it up ok.....well sort of, ran out of gears and got down to about 10klm/h(6mph) but the knee's are fine. The wind was certianly in my favour though, I am thinking the winds were about 25-30klm/h or so once I climbed over the hill, I had a nice little downhill with a tailwind to work, gotta like that

well apart from going to work.


So I guess the problem with the knee's and hip's was related to overextending the leg and adjusting the boom closer was the easy solution afterall.