Crest of a Hill

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
My V 2.0 has undergone a transition; the inner Q Ring which was 44t is now a 38t and to go with it was a long gated derailleur that now keeps the chain well tensioned. The hardest thing doing the change over was releasing the snap link in the chain. As the drivechain is now 11 speed the chain is thinner so more awkward in getting the pliers in between the links and pushing down hard. My friend who has the perfect toolbox and a garage workshop lives 10km away so I packed everything and off I went. Coming back was a little unnerving. Lots of workers were returning home for lunch and wanted to get a good look of me on the bike. I didn’t have any bags on the bike so I stuck a couple of things under my racing jersey, one on each side and looked a little odd. Well that was ridiculous and spontaneous – such are the events each day. LOL. I had some real treasured expressions from people. Typically WTF?#@^%*

To make things a little more awkward the smaller chainring had changed the dynamics with the front shifter so the large chainring was not engaging, so getting through the traffic was terribly slow. Funny the situations we find ourselves in.

Today, after adjusting the front shifter I was planning to have a real long ride, and up one of the largest local hills. I just had to see how good the bike was. It was a delight to be able to make it to the crest of the hill without too much effort and oddly enough getting use to burning rubber when using the two largest gears as the front tire slips with the force exerting on the pedals. Coming back down the hill was awesome. It’s just a smooth slope with a small long gradient with perfect scenes. Sometimes interrupted by the odd motorist beeping their horn. After warping down the hill and going through the next village there was a roadie with a fancy bike. For the next 30 minutes, on the bridges and ascending the rolling hills he would get closer. Then going down the hills the V accelerated so that this rider was almost non existent but I knew he hadn’t given up. It’s the second time since I’ve done this route and being about 70km there were places that I was a little unsure of so I didn’t run any stop signs but this rider behind sure did!

For half and hour this DF rider was in a horizontal position… he must have been absolutely suffering as he certainly wasn’t drafting off me. Anyways it must have given him great pleasure when he caught me up at a circular where I had to wait for traffic, the funny thing was at this junction he took a different turn so we never exchanged complements.

I feel exhilarated about today’s ride. I need to work harder going up hills. I usually pull myself forward on the bars but I guess the dynamics aren’t really going to be as good as the DF rider with a turtle back and off the seat posture on a carbon bike. If I could lie more horizontal, like a Luge rider, and not pull so much would make me more aero but then it’s more difficult to put the force thru the pedals. I certainly could improve my braking habits…. i.e. Slow down really quickly and get going instead of cruising with the pedals when being pursued. If you make so much distance between a rider it’s good to try and keep it.

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LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
If I could lie more horizontal, like a Luge rider, and not pull so much would make me more aero but then it’s more difficult to put the force thru the pedals.
David, one thing to think about is that when you are going up hills, especially steep ones, the aero factor is not that big of a deal. Laying back lower would probably not help you, as the farther back you lay the harder it is to make power. Better to lean up and shorten your hip angle, as I believe that is the recipe for giving you body better mechanics for making power - which you need when climbing that hill!

Yes - I agree - great story and picture!
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
David, one thing to think about is that when you are going up hills, especially steep ones, the aero factor is not that big of a deal. Laying back lower would probably not help you, as the farther back you lay the harder it is to make power. Better to lean up and shorten your hip angle, as I believe that is the recipe for giving you body better mechanics for making power - which you need when climbing that hill!
I also believe this to be true. But I have no hard evidence myself. I think what it is about, is we are all anatomically different, and that hip/leg angle that will best produce power output will also be different for me compared to you (maybe). Would love to see some serious scientific studies in this area for recumbent riders. However what seems logical is to get the heart above the legs, correct? I know this topic is beaten to death over on BROL.
 

Robert O

Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure about the heart/leg thing, but sitting up on my RWD highracer (I'm waiting for my V20 frame to arrive) allows me to spin a lot faster. I attribute that to a more closed hip angle, although I'm wondering if the tension on my core muscles as I crunch up also helps.
 

VenRiderGuy

Well-Known Member
His heart is definitely not above his legs and he seems to be able to go pretty fast:
Well, I'm not as informed about bicycling and going fast as you guys, but from my own experience, I don't necessarily see a corelation between going fast on a flat track and hill climbing ability.

Just another 2 cents dropped into the jar of opinions.:)
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Yes, but what about this guy? His heart is definitely not above his legs and he seems to be able to go pretty fast:
He sure is, very impressive. However, I was referring to hill climbing. But don't don't quote me on that, it's statements from discussions on BROL I read a few years ago. Fact, fiction, theory? I would like see scientific testing. But as far as flat goes, low seat angle and less drag are key...there is a significant difference in my downhill coasting speed when comparing the Silvio to the Vendetta. The lower seat angle of the Vendetta slips through the air faster!
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
If you need a spare 38T Rotor Q-ring, I have one, very slightly used, for sale for $25 plus shipping. It has very few miles on it. I switched to a 34T soon after installing the 38T.
https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/bop/5285172424.html

Hey Joe, Now that's given me some doubt. Have I gone out and bought the wrong Q Ring? The steepest gradient around here is 10% so I think I am good. Most of the time its flat terrain.
Well its certainly a lot easier on the legs than the last 44t
 

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
Hey Joe, Now that's given me some doubt. Have I gone out and bought the wrong Q Ring? The steepest gradient around here is 10% so I think I am good. Most of the time its flat terrain.
Well its certainly a lot easier on the legs than the last 44t
It depends on your cassette and hills. I have bigger hills, but no moutains. And my cassette is 11-28. If I had mountains, I would either go smaller on the 34T Q-ring or bigger on the 28T cog.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
Mention the acronym, 'BROL' and I see red, so this is all your doing....

I have quite a lot of personal experience with hills, bottom bracket height and seat angle.

Alright, so I learned to love custom seats and I make my own to save enough money for food and rent and stuff.
On my old Sofrider, I have made two custom seats.
The original seat is reclined at about 30 degrees and I rode it exclusively about ... three years? Something like that.
Anyway, it's very nice in the Summer heat, to have my sweaty torso propped up into the cooling slipstream.

But I was after speed.
So, after I'd built my longer, stiffer chain stay to get my feet in front of my hips, I built my low-angle seat.
The very first on-the-road test of my new, raw, untrimmed 18 degree seat, was a screaming success.
Not only were my personal best speeds bested, but I handily out-climbed a Lightning P38: I crushed it.
That first "two-mile" test drive for fit lasted ninety minutes and rubbed me raw in a few spots
My uphill speed, my climbing speed, was much better in the low 18 degree seat than in the 30 degree seat,
from the very start.

The only variable on my bike is the seat.
For me, on my hot-rod Sofrider, all-around speed including climbing is better with the low seat angle.

Now I ride my Vendetta 1.5, and it's seat angle is a bit over 20 degrees, a little steeper than I'm used to.
But it's front end is enormously stiff and this attribute makes it climb much better than my old Sofrider.
And the Sofrider is no slouch uphill.

Scientific testing?
That's BROL meta-speak for, "shut up and go away."
Bottom line:
The lower seat angle, combined with an appropriately aerodynamic/tall bottom bracket, makes the best power for me.
For me, that's all I'm interested in.
 

VenRiderGuy

Well-Known Member
So, after I'd built my longer, stiffer chain stay to get my feet in front of my hips, I built my low-angle seat.
MrSteve, as one who also rides a Sofrider as well as a V2.0, I'd love to see a photo or more of your custom Sofrider. If you posted such in the past, I am willing to do a search....? Thanks.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
MrSteve, as one who also rides a Sofrider as well as a V2.0, I'd love to see a photo or more of your custom Sofrider. If you posted such in the past, I am willing to do a search....? Thanks.

http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/evolving-wooden-chainstay.8558/

http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/sofrider-v1-mods.4959/

Here's a tongue-in-cheek post on BROL, comparing my bikes to each other.
It's useful and I'm being honest, but I had fun posting it in hostile territory.
Yeah, I'm a troll.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=121625

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DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
It depends on your cassette and hills. I have bigger hills, but no moutains. And my cassette is 11-28. If I had mountains, I would either go smaller on the 34T Q-ring or bigger on the 28T cog.
The V has the 11/32 cassette so its a bit more forgiving.
 

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
The V has the 11/32 cassette so its a bit more forgiving.
You have a better climbing gear with your 38/32=1.19 ratio than I have with my 34/28=1.21 ratio. The ratio represents wheel revs per pedal revolution. So you will travel a shorter distance than I will for each pedal revolution, which makes climbing easier.
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
You have a better climbing gear with your 38/32=1.19 ratio than I have with my 34/28=1.21 ratio. The ratio represents wheel revs per pedal revolution. So you will travel a shorter distance than I will for each pedal revolution, which makes climbing easier.

Huh.

If only somebody could invent a crankset that had three rings so you could get a really small ring up front for climbing.

Here's hoping.

:D

(Joseph's math is absolutely correct.)
 
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