Curved Slider or not

[Flakkjacket]

I recently purchased a 2018 Vendetta and I am in the process of learning to ride it. I’m 6’1” and mostly legs. The bike has the medium length chain stays. This puts the pedals a little lower which I like. I’m not so concerned with speed as comfort and ease of use. The lower pedals result in higher handlebars. I can reach them and see over them but I would be fine if they were a little lower. My question to those with more experience is should I get a curved slider or not?

 

[LarryOz]

I recently purchased a 2018 Vendetta and I am in the process of learning to ride it. I’m 6’1” and mostly legs. The bike has the medium length chain stays. This puts the pedals a little lower which I like. I’m not so concerned with speed as comfort and ease of use. The lower pedals result in higher handlebars. I can reach them and see over them but I would be fine if they were a little lower. My question to those with more experience is should I get a curved slider or not?

You should really get a longer chainstay - that will drop your handlebars down several inches and you will not need the curved slider.
I can do a Custom Cruzeum fit session for you if you are interested.
Give me a call and I can walk you through the process.
Where do you live?
Larry
828-216-7860

 

[chicorider]

Nice looking ride!

Looking at the photo, you are a candidate for the longer chainstay, which would put your bars a little lower. You are correct to point out that the lower bottom bracket that you have now does offer a bit more ease of use, at a slight price speedwise. If you think that you might eventually go for a longer chainstay in order to make your position on the bike more aero, you could cut to the chase, make that switch sooner, and see where your bars end up. The effect that the slightly higher bottom bracket would have on your handling should be fairly negligible, and you would most likely adjust to it pretty quickly.

If, however, you don't think you'll ever go to the longer chainstay, then yes, you might like the curved slider. On your next ride, look at where your hands are in relation to your shoulders. Many V riders like for their hands to be pretty much straight out from their shoulders, with some bend at the elbow. If your hands are currently up a little higher than that, the curved slider would bring them down closer to level. If your hands are already level with your shoulders, the curved slider would lower them still more, and some riders have said that lower hands can have an adverse effect on handling.

Another measurement to note is the gap between your bars and your belly/thighs. You do need enough room in there for the bars to clear your body for tighter turns, and for you to be able to sit up. I have read a few accounts over the years of riders switching to the curved slider, only to have some trouble with the bars and body coming into contact.

At 5'4", I have had the opposite issue with CB chainstays; the standard "medium" 19" stay seemed too long. On both my V20 and S30 I swapped them out for the shortest 16" stay and curved sliders. In both cases, the short stay put the bottom bracket just above the fork crown, and the curved slider placed my hands level with my shoulders, with no handlebar/body interference. I rode that way for years until I decided to replace my V20 with a V20c. One issue was that CB didn't offer anything shorter than the standard medium chainstay for the V20c. I went for it anyway, and as it turns out, the longer stay and straight slider have been great. My hands stayed right where they were with the old curved slider, and with my feet up a little higher, I gained a small boost in speed because of the slightly better aerodynamics, and the negative change in handling that I was worried about never happened. My V20c is no harder or easier to ride than my V20 was, and going back and forth between the V and the S30 is not a problem. Yes, you can put your feet up too high on these bikes, but looking at your picture, you have a lot of room to go before that would happen. The curved slider could improve your hand position, but a size "long" chainstay could improve the placement of both your hands and feet.

 

[Flakkjacket]

Thanks so much for your input! Sounds like the longer chain stays is the best first step. I live in Boise Idaho Larry so I’m not sure how much you can help with a custom fit at that distance. The slider looked like an easy swop out. I don’t know about chain stay cost or availability for a Vendetta from 2018. I imagine there’s some variation on the way the chain stay connects to the bottom bracket and dropouts of the fork depending on the year. Let me know how complex this solution is.
I may just stick with what I have so I can learn with lower pedals and plan on changing to the longer chain stays when I’m mostly passed the learning curve.

 

[Robert Holler]

Your V should be an easy candidate for a longer stay (QR style) or a curved slider... or both depending on what your goals are.

My question is: How do the cranks "feel" to you? If you are riding around and having a nagging feeling that they seem to feel "too low" and that is the first thought that comes into your mind, then a longer stay is a good answer. BUT, I am never a fan of just slapping long stays on to solve handlebar issues - they are not necessarily the same thing. Raising your BB will change the handling of the bike a bit (more than a curved slider alone will) so that is something to keep in mind. I also am not an advocate of just going for the longest stay possible. I would say to go one size longer than you have - that is one option. Too long of a stay can pivot the bars too close to your lap. As the boom/slider angle approaches horizontal with the ground - things get more complicated. Larry is correct though - a longer stay will naturally lower those bars to a better location.

I also agree with the observation above that you have a lot of room to get the BB a bit higher (to lower the bars) before you get those feet "too high" but make sure not to change one thing you don't have an issue with to fix another thing and create more issues you then have to adapt to...

If it is just simply that your bars "feel" too high (but you are generally happy with where your pedals are in physical space when you are riding) then a curved slider could be a better easier alternative. Ideally you will have a good 90 at your elbows and a "locked in" position on the grips. Too high of bars will cause your arms to be forward of your torso and lost mid-air. This can also impact the handling. If they are too high your visibility will be impacted some as well.

A picture of you on the bike from the direct side would help a lot to assess. Either solution could work, and some people use both depending on their body/geometry/goals.

Here is a good S40 fit vid where I have the curved slider and longer stays. The same basic rules apply. I have a more detailed fit vid on the works for the V20C but it is not live quite yet - where I go over these things in some more detail for the V series.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Where can we find these different length chain stays? The Cruzbike shop has the curved slider for V20 as well as V20c, but no chain stays as far as I can tell.

@LarryOz, do you have them?

 

[LarryOz]

Where can we find these different length chain stays? The Cruzbike shop has the curved slider for V20 as well as V20c, but no chain stays as far as I can tell.

I have some older ones - but I am pretty sure Cruzbike stocks all the different length chainstays (I am also faily certain that the fron triagle for the last V20 and S40 used the same parts (@Robert Holler should be able to confirm - they just don't list them as inventory for some reason

 

[chicorider]

Yes, back when I needed shorter chainstays, I contacted CB directly. They created and sent an invoice for payment and set up shipping.

 

[Tor Hovland]

I'm just not sure what the chainstay options are. Can anybody tell me which length I already have, and if there are any longer options? It measures 49,5 cm from center of axle to center of BB, and it looks like this:

 

[Andreas]

49,5cm is the standard one, 19.5 inch. Beside the shorter ones, there are also 21.5 and a 23.5 inch ones. I will order the 21.5 inch one hopefully very soon.

Check here: Post in thread 'The new-ish V'

 

[Tor Hovland]

Thanks!

So not only is there a longer option, there's even two! So which one will I need, then? I want to minimise aerodynamic drag, but not at the cost of handling. The bike needs to handle well on the flats, when climbing (sometimes steep), and when descending (and I'm not super confident descending on the V20 in the first place). From that other thread, it sounds like the 21.5" option is almost as fast as the 23.5" one, but with better handling.

I also like the look of a more horizontal boom, but that is of secondary importance.

I am 187 cm tall.

 

[Mathew Fy]

Thanks!

So not only is there a longer option, there's even two! So which one will I need, then? I want to minimise aerodynamic drag, but not at the cost of handling. The bike needs to handle well on the flats, when climbing (sometimes steep), and when descending (and I'm not super confident descending on the V20 in the first place). From that other thread, it sounds like the 21.5" option is almost as fast as the 23.5" one, but with better handling.

I also like the look of a more horizontal boom, but that is of secondary importance.

I am 187 cm tall.

I (5'9", 175cm) tried a longer chain stay on my V20c. I was thinking that because my head and shoulders are elevated with the Thor seat, moving my feet and knees up would make me faster. I did a few comparison rides and mywindsock . com calculated no improvement in CdA. I also felt much more unstable, like being a new recumbent rider. My instability was at slower speeds, stop-and-go, & turn-arounds. Because of these I decided to go back to the original. I may try again and become more comfortable at riding with my feet higher. Then plot CdA readings over a longer period for better data.

Looking at the pics shared by @paco1961 my bottom bracket is somewhere between the two set-ups.
He wrote "with the long chain stay the bike has developed a mind of its own. I'm guessing this will smooth out over time." Paul, did you become more comfortable?

 

[Andreas]

I'm not just about aerodynamics, but also about the "angle of the body" or the "bottom bracket elevation" (are these correct English terms?). I feel like I'm too stretched out, and that I could pedal more efficiently if the bottom bracket were a bit higher.

I once used the online protractor and compared the angle with my VTX, on which it feels better.





I also tried to simulate with PowerPoint how much higher the bottom bracket would be at 21.5 and 23.5. I can't find the file right now, but at 21.5, the bottom bracket was already above the tire.

It's a shame that the images from BJ686 in his post are no longer visible. He took pictures of all 3 lengths in a nicely comparable manner.

 

[Tor Hovland]

You know, on my V20 I get some fatigue in my hip flexors that I didn't get on my old Vendetta. And when comparing them, it's clear that I used to have the bottom bracket higher up. You can see it's over the bottom of the seat here, while on my V20 photo above, it isn't.

So, yeah, I know I want a longer chainstay, but how do I know which one I want?

 

[cruzKurt]

Here is my v20c with 22" chainstay.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Yeah, that looks very nice. I'm almost certainly looking for 21.5". A 23.5" is probably going to be too crazy, but it would still be nice to see how it looks.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Just some quick photoshopping to get a rough idea. Never mind the dirty bike!

Here's my 19.5":



And this is an approximation of a 21.5" setup. Only the boom is rotated and put in the right place. A more thorough job would update the actual chainstay as well.



But this looks like an improvement to me, and a nice bonus is more space for a frame bag below the boom.

 

[chicorider]

Just my opinion here, but I think the 21.5" is the way to go. I will give you more of the position that you are after, without running too much risk of taking it too far. Years ago I tried a longer chainstay that ended up putting the boom horizontal. The handling was pretty terrible--feet too high up the air, and the bars had trouble clearing my belly, especially during tighter turns (and I'm a skinny guy). The 21.5" seems like your "just right" option.