Does the MBB invite to lower cadences?

[TorBenT]

Hello,
I notice many write about their optimum cadences being somewhat lower on their CruzBikes than on other bikes/recumbents.
I also saw in this video of Maria Parker's record ride that she appears to ride with a much lower cadence than I would have thought. I believe that for long rides you'd usually choose lower intensity and thus lower cadence, but she does appear to work fairly hard in her low cadence.
That got me thinking about these things:
[*] Is it really so that many (if not most) ride with lower cadences on CruzBikes?
[*] Why is it so? The lower-than-others BB? Moving BB? FWD?
[*] The Silvio has standard-length cranks, but the FreeRider and SofRider has shorter - is their cadence also lower?
[*] Does it not put a lot of extra strain on the knees? Conventional wisdom has it that it's better for the knees to spin than mash?

Any other thoughts on this? Any threads I have missed?

Sincerely,
TorBenT -- not a CruzBiker (yet?)

 

[JonB]

TorBenT wrote: [*] Does it not put a lot of extra strain on the knees? Conventional wisdom has it that it's better for the knees to spin than mash?

Has that been scientificly proven?

TorBenT wrote: Any other thoughts on this? Any threads I have missed?

Some people use a high cadence, others use a low. I heard Bjarne Riis uses a low, and armstrong a high.

 

[TorBenT]

JonB wrote:

TorBenT wrote: [*] Does it not put a lot of extra strain on the knees? Conventional wisdom has it that it's better for the knees to spin than mash?

Has that been scientificly proven?

Scientific proof of knee strain/pain and the avoidance thereof? Not that I've seen.
I have read plenty of anecdotal "evidence" that higher cadence is better for the knees than lower, but that (like most things) it's somewhat individual. My own experiences support the notion. That's why I wondered why Maria Parker was doing so low (to my eyes) cadence, and wondered if that's just her style or something the bike "forces" or "invites" her to do?
There's certainly many other factors potentially involved, like crank arm length.

Sincerely,
TorBenT -- still trying to teach his kids to use their gears

 

[TorBenT]

TorBenT wrote: I also saw in this video of Maria Parker's record ride that she appears to ride with a much lower cadence than I would have thought.

I timed most of the riding sequences in the film. She appears to run at 60-65 rpm. I haven't done any fast riding on a CruzBike, but that cadence would be too low for me on a regular bike or a lowracer.

Sincerely,
TorBenT -- but I'm a fair bit heavier than she looks and probably not nearly as strong

 

[Mark B]

I run a moderately high cadence, but not ridiculous like a lot of bent riders support. I really don't know, my cadence sort of depends on my mood. Sometimes, I like to mash. I think there's room for both. Mashing helps develop strength and spinning helps develop your aerobic base.

Mark

 

[WhiteSilvio]

TorBenT wrote:
I timed most of the riding sequences in the film. She appears to run at 60-65 rpm. I haven't done any fast riding on a CruzBike, but that cadence would be too low for me on a regular bike or a lowracer.

Sincerely,
TorBenT -- but I'm a fair bit heavier than she looks and probably not nearly as strong

Hi TorBenT,
Just by way of comparison (on my Silvio) I try to keep my cadence higher, unless I am doing "hill work" (which I don't go out of my way to do, but probably ought to do more of ).

For group rides, but not necessarily involving much drafting of DF bikes, I average in the low to mid 80RPMs. For a "hillier" run I average late 70RPMs, 76-78. On my own I average 83-86, and have reasonably prolonged periods of late 90's and early 100's, if I am trying to push along.
I have 170mm cranks, but there doesn't seem to be a "standard" for the Silvio, personal preference rules.

Just some information for thought.
I wonder what the technique might be for Ultramarathon riding. Maybe Maria could enlighten us?? :geek:

Regards,
John R.

 

[trapdoor2]

I suspect the MBB doesn't have a lot to do with it...other than it may require a bit of training to get ones cadence up (it did for me). I have decided that it is most likely the position that drives cadence (apart from personal preference). My position on my Optima Baron is quite open (feet above hips) and I had to learn to spin to produce power...which got me more comfortable with higher cadences overall. My cruise rpm on the Baron is in the mid 80's. Very similar results on my Catrike Speed...open position, feet high, high cadence.

On my Cruzbike Conversion, I have a more closed position and my feet are lower than my hips. My average cadence is about 10-20 lower (60s-70s) at equivalent speeds or on the same hills. I have ridden occasionally with a group of LWB riders (mostly GRRs and EZs) and I always wondered why they tended to run lower cadences (than I was running on the Baron).

LOL, I climbed one of our local hills side-by-side with a guy on his GRR (me on my Baron), he never exceeded 70rpm (according to him) while I was spinning into the 120s. It looked like his feet were in slow motion while mine were a blur. Of course, he was probably 140lbs and I'm double that.

 

[Mark B]

In my response, I said "mash", but what I really intended was low cadence spinning of a bigger gear than what you would typically use. I still pull all the way through the pedal stroke.

I think overall, it's better to run higher cadence, but spinning a big gear goes a long way to building strength, which allows you to spin taller gears in the cadence range you prefer and as a result, go faster.

Mark

 

[TorBenT]

Mark B wrote: I think overall, it's better to run higher cadence, but spinning a big gear goes a long way to building strength, which allows you to spin taller gears in the cadence range you prefer and as a result, go faster.

Yeah, it's all just math in the end, isn't it

Thanks to all for replying. We all seem to have similar experiences - so we're either equally right or equally wrong

Sincerely,
TorBenT

 

[Mark B]

TorBenT wrote:

Mark B wrote: I think overall, it's better to run higher cadence, but spinning a big gear goes a long way to building strength, which allows you to spin taller gears in the cadence range you prefer and as a result, go faster.

Yeah, it's all just math in the end, isn't it

Thanks to all for replying. We all seem to have similar experiences - so we're either equally right or equally wrong

Sincerely,
TorBenT

I don't know, but all this thinking is making me a little gassy. STAND BACK!! :shock:

Mark

 

[Maria Parker]

I have been hesitant to weigh in on cadence because I am a beginner cyclist. During my training, cadence was not measured on my gps; I just watched my speed. It seemed easier to pedal more slowly in a higher gear to maintain speeds over 20 mph hour after hour. It could be that with experience I will learn to spin faster and that may improve my cycling.

 

[WhiteSilvio]

Maria Parker wrote: I have been hesitant to weigh in on cadence because I am a beginner cyclist. During my training, cadence was not measured on my gps; I just watched my speed. It seemed easier to pedal more slowly in a higher gear to maintain speeds over 20 mph hour after hour. It could be that with experience I will learn to spin faster and that may improve my cycling.

Hi Maria,
I reckon that being a World Record holding Ultramarathon rider qualifies you to express an opinion, or TWO!!! :lol:

I only wish I had your "fitness".
Congratulations and regards,
John R.

 

[dino snider]

I like a fast cadence on a normal bike.
But on a Cruzbike, I prefer slow and steady pedalling.
I find too fast a cadence - above say 90rpm - makes the front boom wiggle.

I looked into oval chainrings to make this more forgiving, but nobody thought it would help.
D.

 

[John Tolhurst]

dino snider wrote: I like a fast cadence on a normal bike.
But on a Cruzbike, I prefer slow and steady pedalling.
I find too fast a cadence - above say 90rpm - makes the front boom wiggle.

I looked into oval chainrings to make this more forgiving, but nobody thought it would help.
D.

If you ask me, I think it does help. Here is my article on elliptical rings http://www.cruzbike.com/Fitting_Elliptical_Chainwheels.html

 

[Mark B]

dino snider wrote: I like a fast cadence on a normal bike.
But on a Cruzbike, I prefer slow and steady pedalling.
I find too fast a cadence - above say 90rpm - makes the front boom wiggle.

I looked into oval chainrings to make this more forgiving, but nobody thought it would help.
D.

That's part of getting used to the bike. It takes a little while, but faster cadence will come naturally pretty quick as you ride the bike more.

Mark

 

[defjack]

Marks right I really get my revs up when im passing slower bikes. Jack

 

[currystomper]

In the youtube video "Cruzbike Silvio on Ride Across North Carolina" the riders seems to be using quite high cadences...

Currystomp'

(and I'm not just talking about the compressed time bit at the end of the video) :roll:

 

[John Tolhurst]

defjack wrote: Marks right I really get my revs up when im passing slower bikes. Jack

Hand position affects cadence. Low hands require high cadence, high hands can do high and lower cadence, because, high hand positions control the front better, because the arms are more perpendicular to the torso ergo hips.