Dr. Jim Parker RAAM Florida Cycling Challenge Results
- Thread starter Andrew 1973
- Start date
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
(And by article, I mean
(And by article, I mean write-up by Jim
)
(And by article, I mean write-up by Jim
)
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
No Hands
Love the picture of Jim with hands off the bars. Now if I could do that I might be happier with the Silvio
A great ride, well done.
Love the picture of Jim with hands off the bars. Now if I could do that I might be happier with the Silvio
A great ride, well done.
billyk
Guru
No hands
Unbelievable! What an effort!
mickjordan - Riding Cruzbikes no-hands is surprisingly easy. I am no master rider or anything (I have something above 1500 miles on my Quest 2 and mostly ride commuting), but learning this came very easily. With your feet cranking the pedals balancing is not a problem. For me, it is far easier on a slight upward incline; at least I need to be pedaling. That constant pressure on the pedals attachs you to the bike. Keep a very steady cadence and try lifting your hands just off the bars. I was amazed! It works! Now after 3 weeks of practicing I can go essentially indefinitely, control my course, make turns, and feel completely relaxed. But coasting is far harder - I don't feel that connecton to the bike - and I'm not a bit relaxed. Not a bit.
Of course, I shouldn't need to mention that you need to do your practicing in a safe place!!! I only do it on a separated bike path.
There's some recent discussion on the Quest thread, including an inspiring helmet-cam video by shakey.
Billy K
Unbelievable! What an effort!
mickjordan - Riding Cruzbikes no-hands is surprisingly easy. I am no master rider or anything (I have something above 1500 miles on my Quest 2 and mostly ride commuting), but learning this came very easily. With your feet cranking the pedals balancing is not a problem. For me, it is far easier on a slight upward incline; at least I need to be pedaling. That constant pressure on the pedals attachs you to the bike. Keep a very steady cadence and try lifting your hands just off the bars. I was amazed! It works! Now after 3 weeks of practicing I can go essentially indefinitely, control my course, make turns, and feel completely relaxed. But coasting is far harder - I don't feel that connecton to the bike - and I'm not a bit relaxed. Not a bit.
Of course, I shouldn't need to mention that you need to do your practicing in a safe place!!! I only do it on a separated bike path.
There's some recent discussion on the Quest thread, including an inspiring helmet-cam video by shakey.
Billy K
billyk
Guru
more no-hands
mickjordan - I meant to add that being able to ride no-hands was a real breakthrough in how I felt about the bike. Until now I've been somewhat afraid of it, feeling like I might lose control at any minute. The fact that I haven't crashed should logically have given me confidence, but it didn't. Until I learned how easy it was to control it with my legs and body I just didn't feel "one with the bike". But I enjoy it much more now! It's mine! BK
mickjordan - I meant to add that being able to ride no-hands was a real breakthrough in how I felt about the bike. Until now I've been somewhat afraid of it, feeling like I might lose control at any minute. The fact that I haven't crashed should logically have given me confidence, but it didn't. Until I learned how easy it was to control it with my legs and body I just didn't feel "one with the bike". But I enjoy it much more now! It's mine! BK
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
Re; MORE NO HANDS
billyk: So perhaps riding no hands is the epiphany that one had to reach to feel truly comfortable on a CZ? I'll tell you that I was quite shocked when I first tried to take one hand off the bars and nearly toppled, even pedalling along. Evidently my legs were not controlling the bike direction and I was relying on my arms to stabilise it. I also noticed a lot of arm/shoulder stress that I wasn't expecting that was no doubt related to this. Someone recently posted a video of his wife on her first ride and it is telling to me that when she takes one hand off and tries to wave, she nearly topples and puts both hands back quickly.
I did get to the point where I could take one hand off but never felt confident, say, to reach behind me and pull out a water bottle. When this didn't seem to be getting better with more riding, was when I decided I was on the plateau and couldn't see what was going to make a difference. All I can say is that, from someone who was riding no hands around corners at the age of 6 on a DF bike, is that it shouldn't be this hard!
billyk: So perhaps riding no hands is the epiphany that one had to reach to feel truly comfortable on a CZ? I'll tell you that I was quite shocked when I first tried to take one hand off the bars and nearly toppled, even pedalling along. Evidently my legs were not controlling the bike direction and I was relying on my arms to stabilise it. I also noticed a lot of arm/shoulder stress that I wasn't expecting that was no doubt related to this. Someone recently posted a video of his wife on her first ride and it is telling to me that when she takes one hand off and tries to wave, she nearly topples and puts both hands back quickly.
I did get to the point where I could take one hand off but never felt confident, say, to reach behind me and pull out a water bottle. When this didn't seem to be getting better with more riding, was when I decided I was on the plateau and couldn't see what was going to make a difference. All I can say is that, from someone who was riding no hands around corners at the age of 6 on a DF bike, is that it shouldn't be this hard!
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Gradually lighten pressure
Gradually lighten pressure with the hands, gradually increase control with the legs. You just need to find the path to allow the skill to come. If that path is blocked, well ... you won't progress.
Gradually lighten pressure with the hands, gradually increase control with the legs. You just need to find the path to allow the skill to come. If that path is blocked, well ... you won't progress.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi Mick,
Were you clipping
Hi Mick,
Were you clipping into your pedals? I never did before the Sofrider, but I found that clipping in gave me a lot more control over the bike. I don't think I could have learned to ride with no hands without clipping in.
If you lived somewhere flat, I probably would have adviced you to keep trying. I do understand that riding in hilly areas does change the game...
Cheers,
Charles
Were you clipping
Hi Mick,
Were you clipping into your pedals? I never did before the Sofrider, but I found that clipping in gave me a lot more control over the bike. I don't think I could have learned to ride with no hands without clipping in.
If you lived somewhere flat, I probably would have adviced you to keep trying. I do understand that riding in hilly areas does change the game...
Cheers,
Charles
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
RE: WERE YOU CLIPPING
Charles,
I did progress to being clipped in and indeed it did improve stability while moving. However, it made things worse at stops. I never got to the point where I could just clip out one pedal and put my other foot down. It took me one ride on a Bacchetta to do that. So, like I said, I'm still looking for the epiphany that would get me off the plateau. I'm not sure what John means by the path being blocked. If it's literally just a matter of time on the bike then I could see continuing. Anyway I'm not having much luck trying to sell it, and I like it a lot on the trainer, so maybe I'll take it for another ride sometime. I mean, I already into doible figures for bikes in my garage. Maybe everyone should have a Cruzbike to keep them humble
Mick
Charles,
I did progress to being clipped in and indeed it did improve stability while moving. However, it made things worse at stops. I never got to the point where I could just clip out one pedal and put my other foot down. It took me one ride on a Bacchetta to do that. So, like I said, I'm still looking for the epiphany that would get me off the plateau. I'm not sure what John means by the path being blocked. If it's literally just a matter of time on the bike then I could see continuing. Anyway I'm not having much luck trying to sell it, and I like it a lot on the trainer, so maybe I'll take it for another ride sometime. I mean, I already into doible figures for bikes in my garage. Maybe everyone should have a Cruzbike to keep them humble
Mick
Kim Tolhurst_2
Member
hi about no hands
Since 2004-2008 I rode cruzbike models all over the place basically no one to talk to or ride with. Where I rode, New Zealand, South Korea and even here at Geelong AU, no one had seen such a bike. Spent time just having fun here and there, city, country, dirt roads car parks, yes lots of car parks in Korea. Figure eights, fasts starts, slow starts, hill starts, around obstacles, including people> Small circles, large circles, everygear. What speed to do so bike did not fall into the circle. Tried all sorts of these things too with no hands.
NOW this was done for fun, always, though not knowing it would drive me to write, eventually the HOW TO and First Ride instructions for Cruzbike. I am not blowing any trumpet, just saying we should know where the instructions came from.
What I noticed is that everybody I took through the (whats become the 2 x 15 second lessons) personally, was able to complete the conversion from riding DFs successfully. This brings the legs into being the primary steering influence, past a point of reasonable momentum and thats why initially open palms is so important.
I have been most reluctant to specifically teach no hands riding and now must say after studying my own riding WHY?
BECAUSE ONE, doing so should become a natural function without thought.
BECAUSE TWO, if the first two lessons are practiced thoroughly then you will find riding the bike with finger tip control comes naturally.
Finger tip control can be the practise, you will feel the.tentions, and your legs will become really sensitive and able, as experience builds you will find everything becomes as smooth as to how this bike works.
yours personally,
Kim.
Since 2004-2008 I rode cruzbike models all over the place basically no one to talk to or ride with. Where I rode, New Zealand, South Korea and even here at Geelong AU, no one had seen such a bike. Spent time just having fun here and there, city, country, dirt roads car parks, yes lots of car parks in Korea. Figure eights, fasts starts, slow starts, hill starts, around obstacles, including people> Small circles, large circles, everygear. What speed to do so bike did not fall into the circle. Tried all sorts of these things too with no hands.
NOW this was done for fun, always, though not knowing it would drive me to write, eventually the HOW TO and First Ride instructions for Cruzbike. I am not blowing any trumpet, just saying we should know where the instructions came from.
What I noticed is that everybody I took through the (whats become the 2 x 15 second lessons) personally, was able to complete the conversion from riding DFs successfully. This brings the legs into being the primary steering influence, past a point of reasonable momentum and thats why initially open palms is so important.
I have been most reluctant to specifically teach no hands riding and now must say after studying my own riding WHY?
BECAUSE ONE, doing so should become a natural function without thought.
BECAUSE TWO, if the first two lessons are practiced thoroughly then you will find riding the bike with finger tip control comes naturally.
Finger tip control can be the practise, you will feel the.tentions, and your legs will become really sensitive and able, as experience builds you will find everything becomes as smooth as to how this bike works.
yours personally,
Kim.
MrSteve
Zen MBB Master
Congratulations!
Congratulations, Mr. Parker, on your first-place finish !
Riding hands-free is certainly possible with our MBB bikes.
Like Ms. Tolhurst says, it will come to you naturally as your experience accumulates over time on your bike.
Ms. Tolhurst points out that riding hands free ought to become a reflex.
She also notes that, following her excellent 'how to ride' tips, controlling
your MBB bike with your fingertips will also be natural, a reflex, a new motor skill.
I'd like to add that, when you ride your bike with your hands off of
your handlebars, you're hands are away from the controls that are
mounted on the handlebars!
In other words, steering your bike with your legs alone means just that:
you are steering your bike with your legs.
You are NOT controlling your bike with your legs.
Yeah, it's an obvious point!
But, I think, an important one.
After all, sometimes brakes are kind of impotant to have....
-Steve
Congratulations, Mr. Parker, on your first-place finish !
Riding hands-free is certainly possible with our MBB bikes.
Like Ms. Tolhurst says, it will come to you naturally as your experience accumulates over time on your bike.
Ms. Tolhurst points out that riding hands free ought to become a reflex.
She also notes that, following her excellent 'how to ride' tips, controlling
your MBB bike with your fingertips will also be natural, a reflex, a new motor skill.
I'd like to add that, when you ride your bike with your hands off of
your handlebars, you're hands are away from the controls that are
mounted on the handlebars!
In other words, steering your bike with your legs alone means just that:
you are steering your bike with your legs.
You are NOT controlling your bike with your legs.
Yeah, it's an obvious point!
But, I think, an important one.
After all, sometimes brakes are kind of impotant to have....
-Steve
psychling
Well-Known Member
Unclip both at once
Although riding the bike with your hands off the handlebars may simply be a natural development with time (and terrain), like Jim P's pic suggests, it's an incidental novelty otherwise. (At least that's what I think).
When I have unclipped I did so / do so both pedals at the same time. Frees me up to either just coast with my feet off the ground and/or stop and put one or both feet on the ground, depending on where I'm at.
EXCEPT, when I have to stop at an intersection or light. Shift into a low gear, unclip one foot, the other clipped in and rotated to 11 o'clock to be ready to engage when time to initiate forward movement again. Also, I don't really clip in again until I have some stabilizing speed. The shoe is on the pedal applying watts .. easy to do.
Although riding the bike with your hands off the handlebars may simply be a natural development with time (and terrain), like Jim P's pic suggests, it's an incidental novelty otherwise. (At least that's what I think).
When I have unclipped I did so / do so both pedals at the same time. Frees me up to either just coast with my feet off the ground and/or stop and put one or both feet on the ground, depending on where I'm at.
EXCEPT, when I have to stop at an intersection or light. Shift into a low gear, unclip one foot, the other clipped in and rotated to 11 o'clock to be ready to engage when time to initiate forward movement again. Also, I don't really clip in again until I have some stabilizing speed. The shoe is on the pedal applying watts .. easy to do.
MBB and clipping in/out: pedal type and pedal platform?
Charles and Dan,
Your posts are timely/helpful for me....as I am thinking about switching to my eggbeaters today.
Your comments about clipping in makes me wonder about the type of pedals folks find most helpful with the Cruzbikes. I have used eggbeaters for awhile, though have used Speedplay Frogs in the past.
Dan, you mentioned about clipping back in after stops at intersections: "I don't really clip in again until I have some stabilizing speed". With the bents I have ridden in the past, I can clip in rather quickly after a stop after having prepared as you noted by already shifting into low gear.
With a Cruzbike/MBB, is it specifically important to create some "stabilizing speed" before clipping in.....vs a RWD bent or DF? And if so, I am wondering if it might be important for me to take a look at a pedal with more of a platform than the eggbeaters (minimalist platform)?
Look forward to your thoughts....
Bob
Charles and Dan,
Your posts are timely/helpful for me....as I am thinking about switching to my eggbeaters today.
Your comments about clipping in makes me wonder about the type of pedals folks find most helpful with the Cruzbikes. I have used eggbeaters for awhile, though have used Speedplay Frogs in the past.
Dan, you mentioned about clipping back in after stops at intersections: "I don't really clip in again until I have some stabilizing speed". With the bents I have ridden in the past, I can clip in rather quickly after a stop after having prepared as you noted by already shifting into low gear.
With a Cruzbike/MBB, is it specifically important to create some "stabilizing speed" before clipping in.....vs a RWD bent or DF? And if so, I am wondering if it might be important for me to take a look at a pedal with more of a platform than the eggbeaters (minimalist platform)?
Look forward to your thoughts....
Bob
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi Bob,
I clip my second foot
Hi Bob,
I clip my second foot in almost as soon as I pick it off of the ground. I'm not saying this is a good idea or a bad one, but this is what I do. I use dual sided - platform on one side SPD on the other. Once I started clipping in, I've never used the platform size again except for riding in my driveway. I've got (but never used) egg beater pedals and think that they would work just as well as SPDs or anything else.
Cheers,
Charles
I clip my second foot
Hi Bob,
I clip my second foot in almost as soon as I pick it off of the ground. I'm not saying this is a good idea or a bad one, but this is what I do. I use dual sided - platform on one side SPD on the other. Once I started clipping in, I've never used the platform size again except for riding in my driveway. I've got (but never used) egg beater pedals and think that they would work just as well as SPDs or anything else.
Cheers,
Charles
mickjordan
Well-Known Member
Re No hands and pedals
I agree with Dan that there is no intrinsic merit in riding no hands. However, it seems to be a good test of whether you have progressed to this magical point in the development where you can effectively steer with your feet. It's actually quite different from no hands on a DF bike, which is primarily a test of upper body balance. And, lest we think otherwise, it is inherently dangerous in the event of an unexpected input to the bike. While riding in Scotland recently I was being complacement and opening a Jelly Babies packet with two hands when a gust of wind came out of nowhere and practically knocked me down to the road. Quickly getting my hands back on the bars saved me, but the Jelly Babies were a casualty
On the pedals issue, I tried Candy pedals for the large platform. However, I didn't like the imprecision in the clip in compared to Shimano SPDs, so I have gone back to those. I wish Shimano made a pedal like the Candy. The closest they have, which I have used recently, is one-sided, which has issues if you are clipping in and out regularly, and more so for a 'bent. Failing to clip in properly is itself a destabilizing input to the bike but, certainly I liked to be moving steadily before I clipped both feet in the CZ. I never mastered starting on a grade.
I agree with Dan that there is no intrinsic merit in riding no hands. However, it seems to be a good test of whether you have progressed to this magical point in the development where you can effectively steer with your feet. It's actually quite different from no hands on a DF bike, which is primarily a test of upper body balance. And, lest we think otherwise, it is inherently dangerous in the event of an unexpected input to the bike. While riding in Scotland recently I was being complacement and opening a Jelly Babies packet with two hands when a gust of wind came out of nowhere and practically knocked me down to the road. Quickly getting my hands back on the bars saved me, but the Jelly Babies were a casualty
On the pedals issue, I tried Candy pedals for the large platform. However, I didn't like the imprecision in the clip in compared to Shimano SPDs, so I have gone back to those. I wish Shimano made a pedal like the Candy. The closest they have, which I have used recently, is one-sided, which has issues if you are clipping in and out regularly, and more so for a 'bent. Failing to clip in properly is itself a destabilizing input to the bike but, certainly I liked to be moving steadily before I clipped both feet in the CZ. I never mastered starting on a grade.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Like Ms. Tolhurst says
um, hi
Like Ms. Tolhurst says
um, hi Yak,
I think youre referring to my brother Kim, here's his website:
http://www.cruzbiking.com.au/
um, hi
Like Ms. Tolhurst says
um, hi Yak,
I think youre referring to my brother Kim, here's his website:
http://www.cruzbiking.com.au/
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Hi John,
In defense of Steve:
Hi John,
In defense of Steve: If one could edit the posts, he would have fixed it...
Charles
In defense of Steve:
Hi John,
In defense of Steve: If one could edit the posts, he would have fixed it...
Charles
