Each one teach one

[Tuloose]

I am interested in other tribe member's experiences with introducing cyclists to the Cruzbike.
Have you managed to convert any diamond frame or recumbent rider to the FWD, MBB platform?

I have had very limited success in this area.
Some riders may show a bit of curiosity in my bike but don't seem willing to want to try it out.
Most just ignore what I ride even though the advantages of being fast and comfortable are obvious.
I figure they are just wedded to the notion of what a proper bike should be and are hesitant to step outside the bounds of what is considered normal.
I take a bit of pride in marching to the beat of a different drummer and let it go at that.
Still, their lack of curiosity is baffling to me.

Here are my experiences so far with introducing others to the Cruzbike.
I will point out that I live in Corvallis, OR, considered one of the most bike friendly towns (LAB's Bicycle Friendly Communities rating of Gold) in a bicycle friendly state.

One person in the neighboring town of Albany contacted me wanting to try out my Cruzbikes.
After short rides on the Freerider I had at the time and the Silvio 1.0 he tried the Vendetta and said it suited him the best.
He purchased one shortly thereafter.
We went for one 40 mile ride together. He had some difficulty starting off from a stop but once rolling he did pretty well.
I haven't heard from him since but hope he is still riding his Vendetta.

Another experience didn't go so well.
A good friend, a fast, strong rider and life long cyclist said he was having back problems and thought he might be ready for a recumbent.
I mentioned some used bents for sale in our area but he said he wanted a fast recumbent like the Cruzbike I rode.
He had previously borrowed my Silvio for a month but didn't spend much time on it. He did eventually take it out on a longer ride and did OK but I could see he wasn't totally comfortable with it.
I told him I was leaving town for 2 weeks and he was welcome to take my Vendetta and see how it would work for him.
He asked how he could best learn to ride the V and I gave him few tips and left him with the old saying about how to get into Carnegie Hall: Practice, practice, practice.
When I returned I asked him how it was going and he said he had it out some but hadn't done any hills on it yet and he was still riding flat pedals.
This seemed curious since there is a 3 mile bike path near his house that has 2 short but fairly steep climbs but I didn't question why he hadn't made use of the path.
He said he was having problems starting up and I mentioned that clipless pedals would help with this, allowing one to pull back on the pedal to have another go at it if the initial stroke isn't enough to get started.
He mounted his Time pedals and we went out for ride together.
He was doing OK but I could see he hadn't been practicing like I recommended.
We were doing 14 mph and came to a 90 degree right turn.
For some odd reason he thought he needed to Flintstone through this turn.
He unclipped his left foot, the boom swung to the left and he went down and suffered a gash to his finger.
We were able to stop the bleeding and turn back but now he is convinced that he is just unable to master the Cruzbike.
Sad because he is a good riding buddy and I was looking forward to us doing long, fast rides together.

In retrospect I partly blame myself for not offering him more one on one instruction although he did have previous experience with the Silvio.
I also assumed he would look into the Cruzbike website and watch some of the instructional videos. I'm not sure he ever did this.
The person from Albany had just jumped right on the Vendetta with no previous Cruzbike experience so I presumed my friend would have an equally non dramatic time on the bike.
Wrong!
I also see that my friend wasn't fully committed to learning how to ride the Vendetta.
He was dipping his toe in the water but to get in the deep end you have to make that leap.
I should have asked him to give up riding his DF bike and just concentrate on the V for those 2 weeks.

I console myself with something Maria told me once about how someone saw her riding and asked to try it out. I'm not sure which model Cruzbike Maria was riding at the time.
Maria tried to caution the newbie and give her some instructions but she got on the bike thinking it would be a piece of cake, fell over and broke her arm.

So I guess it could have been worse.

 

[cpml123]

Based on my own experience, because I almost gave up a few times, I believe that it's very difficult for someone to "try" a Cruzbike for a short period of time to see if he/she likes it and decide. When someone is comparing a DF bike to another DF bike, it's much easier to try and see. Cruzbike is radically different than a DF bike, and it takes more than a few tries.

My process was that I test rode it and thought I could live with it. I went all in and bought a new S40. It then took me about 1.5 yrs with mostly indoor riding on Trainer Road to get comfortable riding it on the road with respectable speed. There were quite a few times that I wanted to give up or sell the bike. However, since I already sank big $ into the bike and didn't want to lose a big chunk of the investment, I stuck through. I feel that if I were to just borrow someone's bike for a few days or a month, I would have returned it and never continued.

 

[McWheels]

I second the above. People go on a journey to recumbents, it's not an immediate fork in the road. My first exposure was getting a tadpole from Terra-Trike for the pregnant missus. An honourable institution and well thought-out machines. Then a couple of race meetings with the BHPC, and still I imagined something like a Bachetta was my ideal. Slowly I worked out there was merit in the Cruzbike philosophy, but it's a niche in a niche.

Slowly people come round, there's someone sniffing at the idea on another UK forum, but it's taken them years to get to this stage. I am almost certain no one is persuaded on the spot, but it may start the cogs winding.

 

[Robert Holler]

All these bikes - I don't care if it is a Cruzbike, Lightning, unicycle, whatever - people have to put the time in to practice and learn each bike. Learn what the bike is capable of and also what their own skills are capable of. If the skills are limited then they need to be practiced. If the bike becomes the limiting factor then you have to upgrade.

For some baffling reason it seems more and more people conveniently forget this - as if they were expecting to be masters at some new thing the first second they picked it up. If you handed someone a violin and said, "play The Bach Chaconne in D Minor" you would get "huh?!" But you can learn it if you put the time in.

Bikes are no different. I have told people here if you want to ride something nerve wracking then climb aboard an 8 foot high tall bike like you see all the time in Portland and ride in traffic. THAT will sear your brain. Cruzbikes? Easy, but only if you put the time in.

I have seen people ride 1/2 a block on a TRIKE and be so nerve wracked that they get off and give up. Oh well.

When I first rode a Vendetta I thought I would never go faster than 10 mph without soiling my shorts. But I just had to put the time in. When I started riding Cruzbikes I also thought I would never be doing a video like below because I hadn't learned to relax my body and stop fighting for control with an inanimate object.

It's all about the romance of learning a new skill.

There is also the reality that not all bikes are for everyone. Not every rider should be on a V20, just like not every bike commuter or the guy who just rides to the coffee shop on Sunday should be on a time trial road bike. You have to get the right bike for the ride you are doing. Sometimes an all-around bike is the better choice if you can only have one. Thats why "N+1" exists. ;-)

 

[RojoRacing]

I have yet to convince a single person to buy a Cruzbike, at least directly. Cruzbike corporate claims I make a difference even if I don't get to see it first hand. In my case, the only people who are able to ride with me for even a little while are normally riders in the upper echelons of racing so they have a lot of ego at stake and are very unwilling to risk looking different. Most of my casual friends don't bother because they have no issues with their current bike or pace so why look elsewhere.

The real sad ones are the ones who each year around april-may start posting on the RAAM forum about any number of magical solutions for Shermer's neck or saddle sores and then 10 more people will recommend 10 other products that didn't work for 30 other riders and the cycle continues with even more people commending those who suffer through such pain as heros.

This past weekend during my 150 mile ride where the middle 60 miles are with the local racers who show up to measure D###s against each other, I had a few riders ask why I was riding the V20. The answers I gave varied from, because its a better machine to it's more comfortable to it's fun to ride. Each response was met with a puzzled look like "is there any proof of those claims you make". The irony is they see me ride it first hand, longer then they can imagine, faster then they can imagine and they still wonder why? Each time I come across these types of riders I again realize how rare it was for the connection between cruzbike and a rider like myself to have ever formed.

 

[jond]

It is confounding perplexing frustrating and frankly annoying that such an obvious smart great quality advantaged product is a niche within a niche.

Sheep and cattle are not adventurous. Dam things need a stampede to wake up.

The answer is to have the uci allow recumbents equality. Put Peter Sagan on a v20.......today.

Would a pro ride a bent . Does a pro ride a bent. Why won’t a pro ride a bent. Forget money see fun. Okay pay a few name pros to ride some bigger events that allow bents.

somehow to increase the cool awareness publicity factor of recumbents is key to break out and critical mass.

This pressure and marketing must come from the entire bent community.

Why has GCN diversified it’s offerings from road to mountain to etc etc and now even electric mountain bike show without recumbents getting a look in. Surely sales of electric assist mountain bikes do not eclipse total bent sales.

Come on already where is the industry organisation at. It needs common focus beyond what admirably already exists.

But driven by the companies organised as one and focused on message.

Sadly most non bent riders immediate thought is all bent riders are somehow physically impaired old people and that’s why they must ride a bent.

Perception misguided is killing us.

See rojo you’re ahead of your time lol.

We individually can do our bit best by getting out there and riding as many events as possible to publicise our great bikes and grow our community.

Heck I don’t wear my sandals at events and try to leave my weird guy at home lol.

For the record I’ve inspired three people onto recumbent bikes now two as I bought his bike. One schlitter one v20. Also a few trikes.

I am just so glad cruzbike exists at all. Clearly selling recumbent bikes is a very tough gig borne of love and dedication. Guarantee of being faster is the best guarantee no other company offers.

Let’s keep our game faces on and buy another recumbent today.

I just did.

Is five too many?

 

[ed72]

The real sad ones are the ones who each year around april-may start posting on the RAAM forum about any number of magical solutions for Shermer's neck or saddle sores and then 10 more people will recommend 10 other products that didn't work for 30 other riders and the cycle continues with even more people commending those who suffer through such pain as heros.

Funny if it were not so true. They lose their toenails, the function of their hands until Christmas, and then the cycle renews. What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over again.

Most people are herd minded and peloton riders need a compelling reason to switch. I rode DFs for many decades but nerve damage in my neck made even holding a coffee cup almost impossible, forget about the pain. My pain mgt doctor recommended one of those "laydown bikes". My first thought? I'd rather die.

Being a somewhat analyretentive engineer at heart, I studied and analysed all the laydown bikes on the market and in my estimation, the only two worthy of consideration were the M5 and V20. In my mind the V20 would be better on hilly races but i also realized my left arm and hand were to weak for MMB. After 3 years of medical work, I might be able to ride MBB now. Maybe commission a Magic. The 60 year old 100 mile record is almost in my reach. HaHa. Thus, my comments should be taken in that context. I do not ride a V20,

Learning to ride a recumbent is not all that easy. I played high level competitive ice hockey and golf. I also could pretty much alpine ski anything, anywhere. In short, I have decent balance and am not afraid of pain or getting hurt. I have crashed more times than I can remember including tipping over on a turn breaking 4 ribs and a little booboo at Borrego where I permanently left my left elbow olecranon bursa in the dessert. After 2 years of hard work, I can honestly say that overall I am as fast on a bent as on an upright on most terrain (not steep hill climbs). I guess I am a slow learner. My point? A DF rider is not going to merely hop on a V20 or any fast recumbent and off they ride into the distance.

No fellow cyclist has ever asked where to get a bent.

Recumbents will never make their way into the USCF aka USACYLING ranks nor the UCI machinery. They won't even let me run the time trials. What harm for them to make a separate division. We even get banned from some Ultra events like the 24H in Slovenia. So, I don't see that market changing.

Older Sportif riders and to a lessor extent randonneurs are a more likely population. More individual efforts and modestly competitive with rules that allow our bikes.

Many DF riders and motorists assume I am disabled. Cars give me the whole lane and it is exceedingly rare to for me to be buzzed or beeped at on my bent. Riders ask, "What happened?". There is some kind of stigma. They assume, why would you leave the other sheep in the fold for that contraption. On the flipside, it take a rare cyclist like Jason who can break back into the folds of fast riding group, they don't want us and most of us can't keep up on the climbs and we also don't want to wait for them on the flats. Sadly. It would be nice to have more of us out there.

 

[Opik]

havent got any converted yet. but many people were interested.

my frind tried my T50 at did cruised at his 2nd try while another was asking questions on fb

friend at bents circle are quite welcome and social groups let me ride with them. Thats when questions start coming.

there were also some people who tried riding but the wheel flop madness stopped them.

Thing is you need time dedicated to teach and learn.

I think the analogy of learning to use a unicycle is the best

 

[paco1961]

Changing lots of minds and opening lots of eyes on KY. Over years of DF riding I was usually a front of the second group rider. Occasionally jumped to first group but never consistently. After getting used to the CB (S40) I am now riding mid first group and coming out on top once in a while. Comments typically include things like, “muy loco fast amigo!”, “dude, you doin EPO these days?”, “new coach this year?”. The result has been a combination of improved effociency on the CB and better and more consistent training due to lack of seat, neck, shoulder and wrist problems. Most of the surprised looks come at the crest of a moderate climb as I pass the group over the last 100 yards. Haven’t convinced anyone to buy one yet but not for lack of trying.

 

[MrSteve]

Reverse psychology is also largely ineffective.
For years, I've been telling the few curious people how 'horrible' the bikes I ride are.
Selfishly, my goal has always been to be faster, ride farther, (in perfect comfort) than everyone else.
Unfortunately for the local riders, they're still riding in pain and they have failed to prove to themselves exactly
how 'bad' my bikes really are.
Oh well.

 

[dtseng]

I ride with a recumbent group here in my area. We have about 40 members, only two members own MBB bikes. I have two home-made MBB bikes with backrest angles 34 and 24 degrees. The other fellow
owns an earlier model of Quest, but he rides more often his fancy Rans with fairing. Most members who tried my bike could manage the balance the very first time. I told them that it was very easy to ride
MBB bike, but if you continued to ride using "handlebar steering" and pedalling frivolously with you feet as in riding a DF bike, you would feel a bit tiring because your hands would need to fight with your feet
to keep the bike going straight. Then I taught them the true meaning of "pedal steer": my left foot touch the ground, hands off handlebar, my right foot on pedal and started to push bike forward. I showed them
that my right foot could turn the front wheel left, right, and no turn at all. The essential thing to learn to ride a MBB bike is to re-program your brain, that is, to steer the bike with your feet as demonstrated in
Robert's video above. All that is needed is the ever so small side-way force on the pedal to keep the bike in balance and to steer the bike. Once you mastered it, it became a reflex just as in handlebar-steer and you never needed to think about it. It took me daily practice for the whole summer to get it. Of course, I started with handlebar-steer, gradually loosened handlebar grips, trying to control the bike with my feet. Then, steer with one hand, and finally with no hand.

 

[woodguy]

I agree with Tuloose that it is baffling why most bikers aren’t willing to give Cruzbike a serious try. The comfort advantages are obvious & you can definitely go fast if you are strong enough.

This spring I rode my Q45 for 52 days with 40 DF riders crossing the USA. Almost all of them engaged me in discussions about my bike. I explained all of the comfort advantages. I told them about why the MBB design offered power & speed advantages. They watched me ride every day, and although I’m not the fastest overall, I had obvious advantages in headwinds & on downhills. I definitely had the least amount of pain in the butt, wrists, back & neck.

I offered all of them an opportunity to try the Cruzbike on one of our days off, warning them that there is a learning curve & they shouldn’t expect to just head down the road. One gave it a try, but she was so short that her feet wouldn’t touch the ground when sitting on the Q45, so that didn’t work too well.

I’ve decided the reluctance to change must have something to do with either not willing to be different, or not willing to put in the needed effort to learn an MBB. I have a good friend who was inspired by my cross country ride. He decided to start biking. Went out & bought a DF, even though we had lots of discussions about the Cruzbike. I don’t get it.

I’m not giving up on spreading the word about Cruzbike because I like them so much, but I am also not going to be personally offended if everyone I talk to doesn’t convert. It would be interesting to see a survey done exploring this issue. That might give some insights. Maybe Cruzbike has done that already, but I haven’t seen it.

While I’m waiting I’ll just enjoy the most comfortable ride available.

 

[Opik]

It takes time.

just had 5-6 kids trying my quest 20 inch today. spread the recumbent and cruzbike word, let them try.

none had success but at least they were in the seat. and Although they wont purchase now. they will definitely remwmber the experience. I go to severl places with my quest. had several questions asked. especially at the mosque.

research takes time. even I was searching for TT n triathlon bikes as I wanna go fast but comfortable and then stunbled upon recumbent. and taking the decision to buy a recumbe t isnt easy, especially in an area where recumbents are rare or test rides are short ( used bents are on gumtree all the time) and the price is so high compared to a road bike.

There are used carbon road bikes with a 500 AUD price here in Australia, while bents which are not fast are 1000 AUD above.

So got junk used bents that were broken for dipping the toe. then offloaded for free as I cant repair it and the damage was too big

There arent many people willing to spend big money on bikes. even 200-300 AUD seems too much for them.

I think the hope is when their health is severely affected and cant ride a normal bike anymore or must do physical activity that iant damaging to the joints.

That is probably when bents will show up

 

[Osiris]

It's not specific to Cruzbikes; I haven't been able to convince anyone to even consider a recumbent, period. We've had many conversations about it. They all concede that recumbents are faster and much more comfortable, but there is some sort of mental block that prevents long time upright riders from even considering anything else. Perhaps it's just the desire to fit in and not look like the oddball in the group. But I've also encountered the same stubborn resistance when trying to talk other bent riders into trying a Cruzbike. They seem to listen attentively to my reasons, even seeming to agree with them, but they just stick with what they have.

 

[ed72]

The most frequent question I get is what happened, why are you on that.

Stigma and lack of conformity are the mountains to climb

 

[Osiris]

The most frequent question I get is what happened, why are you on that.

Stigma and lack of conformity are the mountains to climb

While riding the V20 I once had a rider pull up next to me and say, "Don't you have a real bike?" That pretty much sums up the reaction I've gotten from adult riders. Kids, though, seem to think just the opposite. They always react very enthusiastically when they see me pass. To them, bents are cool.

The M1 gets the most positive reactions from adult upright riders, probably because it looks like something out of a science fiction film. I've had other riders ask me whether I'd mind if they had their pictures taken next to it, and they always ask lots of questions about it. Most end up dismissing it as grossly impractical and dangerous, and (wisely) wouldn't want to try riding one.

I first saw a recumbent in 2011 during the Horrible Hundred. It was a Bacchetta Ca2. I thought it looked ridiculous; a long stick with handlebars, wheels and a clumsy looking seat grafted onto it. Aesthetically, the whole assembly struck me as a discordant mess. But I became intrigued when someone mentioned that they were fast, and that it's owner usually rode alone because no one could keep up with him. Years went by before I saw more recumbents and was persuaded to try one. A couple of weeks later, I became the proud owner of an M5 CHR.

 

[RojoRacing]

You know what's a bit ironic is that before I started riding the V20 and looking on this forum, the speed of a bent wasn't even something I considered, the only thing I thought when I thought bent was comfort. This may be because the only bent I had ever seen or ridden with before that point was some random guy who would show up on our 80 mile group ride and he was the only rider who I could draft behind because I was faster than everyone. In my mind, a bike with slicks was a bike with slicks and that was that as far as speed was concerned.