Electronic Shifting and Replacing Brifters on the v20

[cruzKurt]

I am considering electronic shifting on my Rear Derailleur on my 2019 v20. I assume that I will basically be rendering the brifter obsolete so I am looking for options to replace both brifters and have electronic shifting and either a bar end shifter or twist shifter for the FD. Has anyone done something similar?

 

[Frito Bandito]

I switched to SRAM Force AXS from Shimano 105. There is also Red AXS and Rival AXS. Basically, you can switch between all 3 of the AXS brifters and derailleurs. The brifters connect to the deraillers via Buetooth, so there is no wire between them. There are brake wires though. After using SRAM for almost 7 months now, I will probably never go back to a wired system. The battery on the rear derailleur lasts about 800km and the front for about 1500km. The batteries are swappable, so you can put the battery from the front derailleur into the rear derailleur and still get home in an emergency.

 

[Henri]

You could just keep the brifters. Best with a cable that is clamped, so it ceeps the brifter stiff sideways. There are of course also electronic brifters, but then you'd meybe need the mechanical brifter to match the electrinic one a bit. Or get a second one that matches, and also has no cable and then add a different shifter.
Of course that's only alternatives. You can surely get two flat bar brake levers and one electronic and one mechanical shifter. Would that electronic shifter be trigger style? Maybe then a trigger shifter for the front would fit well? (If that's available with compatible cable pull.)

 

[DavidCH]

I got rid of the Brifters and the FD. I use a x-shifter that I had to wait absolutely years for off kickstarter.... if you can source an xshifter ... try and get a spare battery... its worth having one to put in your pocket on a ride as it freezes in an impossible gear when running out of power.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

I went “old school” and replaced my brifters on my Vendetta with friction shifters on the bar ends. Virtually indestructible. And I can sweep ten cogs all at once if I need to. If a cable were to break, I could fix it, on the road, in minutes. The only adjustments necessary are the minimum and maximum screws, which have to be set anyway. I also got rid of my inline barrel adjuster, since there is no need for that adjustment. Friction shifters work a lot better than one would ever expect. I don’t have to mess around trying to get the gear right on like one would think. I don’t think about shifting anymore than I did with brifters. Now I don’t have any desire for anything else. This is “set it and forget it.” Cheap, simple, easy, durable: can’t ask for more.

 

[Frito Bandito]

+1 Joseph. I have a set of 2x11 Dura Ace bar end shifters that worked very well while I had them on. There might have been a small amount of adjustment due to cable stretch, but I don't remember thinking that I couldn't wait to remove them, so I'd put them back on instead of the R7000 Shimano 105 brifters.

 

[vosadrian]

I have Di2 brifters. My normal riding position at all times is with fingers on the gear selector buttons. The electronic shifter takes such little effort to make changes both front and rear. I find myself shifting a lot more than with mech gear set... just because it is so easy and fast/smooth to shift and I don't need to move my hand at all.

I am using the 6770 brifters that came on my 2012 model DF (That was upgraded). They are 10 years old with >50,000kms of use and still working great with no issues. I have them coupled with most components from the 6770 (battery, junction box etc.) but I am running R8000 RD and FD for 11 speed and long cage. Very happy with this setup... I had most of the bits laying around and the riding experience is awesome... so much better than the SRAM mech that came on my V20.

 

[cruzKurt]

Thanks everyone, I guess I am sticking with the brifters for now, I am just getting acclimated to the bike and making a change right now probably not worth the effort.

 

[chicorider]

I heartily believe all of the positive press about electronic shifting (fast, effortless shifts, easy set-up, a cleaner look, etc.).

However...

In my 35 years of cycling, properly adjusted mechanical drivetrains have never let me down, and mechanical shifting is not appreciably slower. If a chain is acting a little chunky going up or down (a rare event), 99% of the time a quarter or half turn of a barrel adjuster does the trick. What I gain by sticking with mechanical shifting is never having to think about batteries (When did I last charge this? Do I have enough juice for the ride I'm about to do? If my battery dies, how many miles will I have to limp home? What will happen to this battery when my Northern California garage hits 130-140 degrees in the summer? How is it that Pro Tour riders, who have team mechanics, need bike swaps mid-race because their e-shifting isn't working?).

None of this is meant to be a criticism of electronic shifting. The people I know who use it love it. Excellent! But mechanical shifting is so simple, reliable, and effortless, that for me, e-shifting is what I call "a solution looking for a problem." My main sadness is that Shimano and SRAM only offer their 12-speed kits in e-form, forcing me to choose between that added gear and peace of mind.

 

[Andrew Wilson]

I concur Craig.

 

[Beano]

I heartily believe all of the positive press about electronic shifting (fast, effortless shifts, easy set-up, a cleaner look, etc.).

However...

In my 35 years of cycling, properly adjusted mechanical drivetrains have never let me down, and mechanical shifting is not appreciably slower. If a chain is acting a little chunky going up or down (a rare event), 99% of the time a quarter or half turn of a barrel adjuster does the trick. What I gain by sticking with mechanical shifting is never having to think about batteries (When did I last charge this? Do I have enough juice for the ride I'm about to do? If my battery dies, how many miles will I have to limp home? What will happen to this battery when my Northern California garage hits 130-140 degrees in the summer? How is it that Pro Tour riders, who have team mechanics, need bike swaps mid-race because their e-shifting isn't working?).

None of this is meant to be a criticism of electronic shifting. The people I know who use it love it. Excellent! But mechanical shifting is so simple, reliable, and effortless, that for me, e-shifting is what I call "a solution looking for a problem." My main sadness is that Shimano and SRAM only offer their 12-speed kits in e-form, forcing me to choose between that added gear and peace of mind.

For me I went over to ETAP because most of my riding (a large chunk of it in fact) is audax riding. Over a multi day brevet or even a long 300/400km ride you can change gear multiple times, even more so on a recumbent where I find myself changing gear more. This can lead to fatigue and sprain injuries in you wrist/fingers using mechanical as did what happened to me back on PBP. With ETAP you change gear by pressing a button with as much force as you might press a doorbell and each shift is perfection. And I like to believe that ETAP had been around for a number of years now that any issues have been sorted.

I agree though that mechanical does have it's place and for sure seeing that the new 105 is Di2 and disk only means less choice in the long run imo.

 

[Bill Wightman]

The SRAM (WiFli?) ETAP is expensive but so worth it to me especially with the chain vibration attenuation feature and the speed of shifting. If you are riding on smooth roads with non-demanding shift rates then mechanical shifting is mature and reliable. I ran into trouble when my (not too loose) chain flew off the chainwheel pulling the derailleur into the front wheel destroying all sorts of expensive stuff. After I went to the latest version of the SRAM Red ETAP the chain is rock solid over the rough road issues and the shifting is very fast which is useful with the sprinting nuts I ride with. I keep a charged backup battery onboard even though I can borrow the chainring battery.

 

[vosadrian]

I have always been a shimano person. My V20 came with SRAM mech and I tried it for a bit to see if I could like it, but I just did not like the same lever used for up and down shifts. For me, I sometimes went the wrong way, and I could not tell when I was in the highest or lowest gear except by attempting another shift which went the wrong way so then having to reverse it.

I have had many versions of Shimano Ultegra (6600, 6700, 6800). They have been great for mechanical, but if you have not tried electronic, it is so much easier and smoother. I actually found the 6600 the nicest because the cables did not have the sharp bend near the shifter which really improved the ease of shifting particularly the FD. But on the Di2, your hands do not move at all to make a shift, and your finger move like <1mm. Just a small force is all that is needed. The FD is the most noticable as you had to move your hands quite a lot to change to the big ring. It is great all the time, but particularly good in cold conditions when your hands are cold and hard to move already. If you are going fast and get a red light, you can just hold the down change button a few seconds and it will shift all the way to the big end of the cassette to get ready for a standing start. So much easier than multiple triple rear shifts. You don't know what effortless shifting is if you have not tried electronic.

I first got Di2 on one of my bikes in 2014. I must have >60,000kms on Di2 in that time. I've never had a single issue (and still using the same batteries that last as long as day 1!!). I check the battery level when I pump up tyres (takes 5 seconds). The batteries last a long time (well over 1000kms!!). I'm not sure what Pro teams do to have issues, but I expect the mechanics are always in a rush and cut some corners that result in cables being under tension and pulling out. The Pro peleton is probably a lot tougher environment than I am for a groupset also. I have had friends get flat batteries when I was riding with them. Typically they did not check the battery in months... not really the fault of the groupset if you do not maintain it properly. I had one friend who did not leave enough slack for a shifter cable and the flex on the bars in a sprint pulled out the cable. He plugged it back in and off we went... to fix the issue with cable slack at a later time.

It's not for everyone for sure. But most of the people I know with it love it and have never had an issue.

 

[Tim Lyke]

I switched to SRAM Force AXS from Shimano 105. There is also Red AXS and Rival AXS. Basically, you can switch between all 3 of the AXS brifters and derailleurs. The brifters connect to the deraillers via Buetooth, so there is no wire between them. There are brake wires though. After using SRAM for almost 7 months now, I will probably never go back to a wired system. The battery on the rear derailleur lasts about 800km and the front for about 1500km. The batteries are swappable, so you can put the battery from the front derailleur into the rear derailleur and still get home in an emergency.

What wheels did you use?

 

[Frito Bandito]

What wheels did you use?

I am using 2 different drive wheels, mainly my Campagnolo Bullet 50mm but also Scirocco 35mm. Both have Shimano free hubs, and I assume any wheel you can put a Shimano free hub on will allow you to use the Shimano Ultegra 12-speed cassette, which the AXS matches perfectly with. I've got my eye on a HED Jet 9 for the front, and if/when I order it I will get it with a Shimano freehub since Shimano cranks are sooooo easy for me to get here, and I'll always have the option of either a Shimano or KMC chain with that crankset. I understand the supply issues due to Covid-19, but I don't want to get caught up in them.

 

[DavidCH]

Emmm mix and match... xshifter can adjust your derailleur to even use 14 gears given the chance, without a network of cables or brifters.

 

[bladderhead]

I agree with @JOSEPHWEISSERT. I made a bar-end friction shifter and it is brilliant.

 

[Randyc3]

Hi, has anyone tried the new Shimano DI2 105?

 

[vosadrian]

Hi, has anyone tried the new Shimano DI2 105?

It is pretty new, so not sure anyone has got their hands on it yet. My experience is that 105 is very good quality and probably just a bit heavier than Ultegra in general over the recent 105 series products. I put Ultegra R8000 Di2 (RD and FD) on my V20 in early 21. If I was doing it again now, I would definately consider going the 105 12 speed Di2 (to save $$ and get 12 speed). The weight is not such a big deal on a heavy bike like the V20 (which is twice the weight of my DF). I have 11 speed now and it is fine... but 12 could be better!! My shortest gear is 36-32, and I am regularly on >15% climbs. I could use a shorter gear which may make it easier to manage tyre grip on steep stuff as well as make it a little breathless on longer steep climbs.

 

[Randyc3]

Thanks! Thinking about my dream drive train and derailleurs for a V20c.