Emmit Smith's Grand Fondo

[Jayrob]

Anyone thinking about doing this ride in September? I hope to be able to do it this year. I am thinking about putting my coroplast fairing on my low racer to see if I can come close to 4 hours. At my age and as slow as I am, I need all the help I can get.

 

[RojoRacing]

If adult life things will let me I'm not opposed but I think I already committed to some kind of Texas Time Trial event also in Texas and also in September. If Emmit's is the week before that would be perfect as I could maybe just stay out there the two weeks but I kind of doubt it.

 

[Jayrob]

I was thinking about doing the 26.5 mile sprint at the TTTT which will be September 21st, 22nd, and 23rd, the event, not the sprint. Emmit's Gran Fondo will be September the 30th, 2017. If I get my house sold in MO in the next couple of months and buy a house down here in TX, you could stay at my place. It would be nice if a recumbent, or HPV, could walk away with the 10 grand prize. I think there will be a Milan velomobile there at Emmit's this year also. Maybe with you, Larry, and a few more recumbents, it could be possible for one of you to win it.

 

[RojoRacing]

If the dude who broke 300 miles in the HPV at sebring were to show up to one would stand a chance. I asked Marko about that guy and he just shook his head at how fast that machine was.

 

[Jayrob]

Yes, the HPV's I have built I could go about 6-10 miles faster than with just the bike. Some of the guys at the HPV races can hold around 40 mph for an hour. I should be able to hold 28-30 mph with my meager power out put for 4 hours. My old Lightning Phantom with my home made fairing with 35mm Schwalbe Plus tires and weighing in at around 62 pounds, I could hold 22-23 mph with it. The low racer without the fairing is that fast, when I am in good shape. The thing is, once you get the HPV to speed, it is way easier to hold than just a naked bike. I would think with a fully faired Vendetta with you or Larry riding it, should be able to do a century in less than 3 hours, averaging around 34-35 mph. Put a racing canopy on it, even faster, but then you need a NACA duct to help cool you down.

 

[RojoRacing]

HPV are exiting the image I see a bicycle as and that a minimalist convenient mode of self propelled transport and or fun. If you can't grab a backpack pick up your bike and run it up or down the stairs and be on you way to the office or trails with a moments notice then it defeats the perpose. Honestly by my opinion of the CruzBike pits it in a sort of grey area because you can just hop on a ride and it is of a minimalist design but you can't exactly go by groceries with it without elaborate storage solutions added after the fact.

If a HPV won the $10k, as a race director I wouldn't make the HPV illegal. I'd add a simple obstacle that any bicycle would easily conquer but add a massive handicap to a HPV. A large stair case or something along those lines would make things interested. I'm not hating on the HPVs I just feel that too much effort it put into them to make them simply fast at the cost of some of the things that make regular bikes so great so a race between the two seems wrong. As a pure race bike I find them fascinating.

 

[Jayrob]

The race director said HPV's are allowed and no penalty. I think that is a little narrow minded myself, penalize a HPV, but not a bunch of pro uprights drafting each other. A pro pace line can add up to 5 mph to an upright bike. Just like the TDF, it is not about the single rider, but a team of riders to make one guy the champion. At my age, I can not compete with a bunch of 20-30 year old pro DF riders drafting. If you are drafting, you are not doing it, but the group is. As far as jumping in and going and hauling stuff, if you have a front tilt up fairing, it is pretty simple to get in and just ride off. And if you get the HPV set up right, you can add climbs and the HPV will still win. My last HPV had a 24t front ring with a 36 rear. I could climb telephone poles in it(not really), but 20-22% grade hills.

 

[RojoRacing]

Adding an obstacle like stairs isn't a rule against HPVs it an attempt at evening out the playing field, there's a difference. It's not the obstacles fault that some people or bikes struggle more than others to clear it.

Self propelled racing is normally meant to display the physical and mental potential of the human being. If you want good racing, rules and limits are needed to do so. I'm more about racing than I am about winning. It is for that reason I seek out events where the vendetta has no advantage. If for example I had won the 24hr race last year. I would have been happy I was able to win and show what the CruzBike could do, but I wouldn't feel the same sense of pride in my own abilities like I did when I won the California Triple Crown. After all where is the fun in winning a race because you bought a machine designed to be faster.

On the contrary I've always viewed HPV racing events as an engineers event with self propelled characteristics added in. Sure you still need strong riders but so much more goes into creating the fastest machine of your own design before the event even starts. I think when organizating a racing event you have to ask yourself what is the number one aspect you want to focus on? Human ability or engineering feats. Any one race will have both but you should have one as your main focus over the other or else both are cheapened.

Racing isn't designed so someone past their prime can win. It's mean to put the strongest person that day on display for all to admire.

 

[Jayrob]

You have some good points and reasoning, but still, if you draft, it is not you that is winning. All the DF's and pros in the race draft. That is not the strongest person either, but a collective effort on several peoples part. I just like to go out and ride, win, lose, or draw. But, if they will let me us a HPV in the race for money, I am going to use it. And it feels real good to go out and best the youngun's. Ha. And your Vendetta is an engineering feat, at least according to Jim Parker and the rest of the tribe. When you can go out and win your races on an old E-bike or single speed beach cruiser, then your statement about the strongest rider will be correct. You are using the latest engineering technology available.

My strong suit is not bicycle racing, I started riding for my health, but I am getting faster all the time. And I do not race to be admired, but to compare myself against others.

 

[RojoRacing]

That's why I say when I win a flat race on the V the victory goes more to the bike. When I was winning 24hr Mtb races overall on a single speed I felt like the most badass rider on the planet(still not true).

I wouldn't mind entering an HPV into Emmits myself but personally if I felt it was totally unfair or if they "kindly" asked me to bring a none faired bike next time. I would be happy to spend the 10k on a new non faired bike and ride that the following year. If they treated me like a few of the California triple crown people did last year I would bring the HPV back every year just to rub their faces in it.

I'm a fair and nice guy to everyone until you give me a reason to do something out of spite. I love doing things out of spite, it like a fun hobby I to rarely get to do :lol

 

[Emeljay]

In any race, ride, outing we all make choices within a set of guidelines set up by those who are running the show. If it is within the rules to allow any type of HPV, then it would be up to me, my choice and skill with my chosen steed, as well as my fitness level. If I'm older but choose faster technology, then why should I not win? So IMHO the race should go to the one who is not only fit, but chooses the effecient machine. And no flats, wipe outs, or bonking!That is why I give you the credit for a win when you are physically and mentally prepared and do the work, as well as chosing a faster technology.

 

[Jayrob]

Emiljay, you hit the nail on the head! I train very hard, but with my health issues, I can't train as much as I would like. And if they allow me to ride a HPV and win the money, sign me up. I am not by nature a long distant runner, jogger, or bicycle racer. I have always been a sprinter. If I can stay healthy for 3-4 months and train, I'll line up with just about anyone and race them for 10k-20k TT. I am not talking about real pro's here. If I do stay healthy and can train, this old 64+ old fart will surprise a lot of people. And the bike I ride is almost 30 year old technology.

 

[RojoRacing]

I never said I was against the HPVs, I just said that if one won and the RD decided to make them illegal in the future. I could see them taking the stance I stated and I would understand there position if their goal was to focus on the human ability over the the engineering side of our sport. If a HPV won then one of two things would happen. One, more HPV's would show up the following year and fewer pro DF riders because they don't like to loose. Two, the RD would make the HPV illegal under the pressure from loosing Pro riders as well as the sponsors and exposure they bring to an event. I'm not siding with one or the other, I just see both sides objectively for what they are.

Back to the original topic though, so who wants to go and what are you rocking for your ride?

 

[trplay]

Racing isn't designed so someone past their prime can win.

Ah hail, then I'm out I still like the idea of the stairs though.

 

[Jayrob]

I wish we could get a whole bunch of recumbents involved. I will also try to get a few of the real fast HPV guys to show up. It would be a real hoot if Ellen van Vugt would show up. She set the record for 6 hours in 2015 at 251.28 miles at an average of 41.88 mph. That also broke the mens record by 33k. That is bad ass no matter what you are pedaling!

 

[RojoRacing]

I wish we could get a whole bunch of recumbents involved. I will also try to get a few of the real fast HPV guys to show up. It would be a real hoot if Ellen van Vugt would show up. She set the record for 6 hours in 2015 at 251.28 miles at an average of 41.88 mph. That also broke the mens record by 33k. That is bad ass no matter what you are pedaling!

I'd draft off that

 

[bladderhead]

Stairs you say. One of these clever home-builders will make a human-powered transformer. Pull a lever and the thing sprouts legs and walks.

 

[LarryOz]

I guess I have a pretty long time to build an "HPV" case around my Vendetta for this race - that should be fun!

 

[bladderhead]

How do you build a bodyshell around a bike that bends in the middle?

 

[Jayrob]

Spandex/lycra! I thought only the front moved side to side. I would love to see Larry show up with a fully faired Vendetta. I would use pvc pipe inside another pvc pipe wrapped with HD spandex fairing. The pvc pipe could slide as needed inside the other piece of pvc, and the spandex would stretch as needed. Or you could use coroplast with spandex in between where the BB moves. There are many more ways to build it also. If I can stay healthy between now and then, I'll be there with my coroliner low racer. I might not be able to outrun the pro peloton, but I will make them work a lot harder than they want.

I edited my original reply, it might have sounded a bit snipy!