Explaining Learning to ride a recumbent to a world class DF rider who has doubts

[RojoRacing]

So I have a world class DF rider(think faster than me) who sees what I do on the Vendetta and wonders if he could reach the same level of mastery of the speed sled. His reluctance stems from a past experience where he borrowed a Schlitter recumbent for 2 weeks and failed to ever feel comfortable or safe in that time so he gave it back. If think you know who I'm talking about I ask you keep it to yourself, I won't be mentioning any names and I ask you to respect that.

Today he sent me this message

Hi Jason, about the Cruz bike - how much different is it to Schlitter Encore bike? I am asking because I had that one for a couple of weeks, but just couldn't get the hang of it... it was damn right scary for me to ride that thing. I did it only on the parking lots for safety reasons, but going faster than 20mph was just a struggle, not physically but I was scared of speed. Just not comfortable for me...

I guess I should take longer, but I didn't see the point as I enjoy the classic bike so much. So I thanked John and returned it in crisp condition (as good as new).

My response was

I can't say personally as I've only ridden a Schlitter around a parking lot for 5 mins and I was very unstable on it. That was not the bikes fault, I just wasn't used to it and it handled totally different than my cruzbike. Learning to ride a cruzbike or any other recumbent is not something you do if you are thinking "I'll just try this quick and see if it's better". If that is your thought process you'll never figure it out because your expectations will block your progress. You need to want to really want to learn the bike in your mind and understand each struggle is something you have to master and not just something impossible because it's different. When I first got my cruzbike I struggled more then anyone else because I didn't read and practice the beginner drill and I was rushing to get ready for the first Berrego Spring 24hr back in 2015.

The first day it was impossible but on the second day I got rolling and was wobbly a lot. I was most comfortable pushing the pedals hard and accelerating but as soon as I eased up on the pedals to go slow I was fighting the bike to stay stable. Day 3 to day 12 I rode on a 8km closed road back and forth practicing relaxing and riding with one hand. day 13 I did my first group ride with friends without problem so I started riding with another faster group so I could just follow them and practice getting faster. I only had the bike 5-6 weeks before I raced berrego but by that point I felt good on the bike. Now the cruzbike is my favorite bike if I want to be comfortable and just go fast.

Lets not turn this into a Schlitter vs Cruzbike discussion. He obviously trust issues with the former and that's a mental hurdle I wont ask him to jump right now. I'm only trying to give him the honest info so he can feel more comfortable about undertaking a new trial of a recumbent. For you die hard cruzbike doubters or supporters of Schlitter I ask you to keep in mind any top level DF rider trying any kind of bent is a win in the bent world. With that said are there any other points you think I should mention besides the obvious stuff he already knows about like comfort and he need to keep an open mind and practice the drills. I'm tempted to send him a link to my thread where I posted my experiences those weeks leading up to the race because it has a ton of great info about what he can expect. The only problem is I didn't sugar coat what I wrote, I only wrote about the unfiltered truth as I went so the Parkers may want to hang me the next time them visit california. I'd rather have someone tell me up front how hard something was to learn while showing me how easy it can be instead of me having my high expectation crushed with the learning curve and losing hope. http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/the-road-to-500-miles-in-24hrs.8915/

 

[jond]

Hi Jason

I always tell people who ask that it is like “learning to ride all over again “ literally.

And that the journey to proficiency even as an adult can be challenging and fun.

The rewards are as we all know are fantastic . A faster safer comfortable ride over most terrains.

As you know well. You get out what you put in. Good luck with your mate.

Jason do you feel safer on the vendetta being feet first and heads up on the open road.

 

[LMT]

I think your response was to the point and correct, certainly has similarities with my own experience when learning to ride my V20. Coming from a RWD recumbent (Metabike) I was in no doubt that I've have to learn to ride a recumbent (again)!

If people think that riding a recumbent you'll straight away break records after only a day or so on the road then you're dreaming. Was at least six to eight weeks to get right on my first two wheeled bent (Optima Baron), and it took about 4 weeks for the V20, made only possible in this amount of time by following the drills specified by @ratz.

 

[RojoRacing]

Hi Jason

I always tell people who ask that it is like “learning to ride all over again “ literally.

And that the journey to proficiency even as an adult can be challenging and fun.

The rewards are as we all know are fantastic . A faster safer comfortable ride over most terrains.

As you know well. You get out what you put in. Good luck with your mate.

Jason do you feel safer on the vendetta being feet first and heads up on the open road.

Diffidently not. I'm an extremely attentive driver and rider so I see things happening in front of me well before they happen so I take precautions to avoid running head first into anything, that more then I can say for 90% of all people on a bike or in car. My only worry is getting read ended by the car tailgating the car about to pass me because they can't see me till the last second.

 

[ratz]

Some of the Salient points that help:

• In the beginning many short sessions 20 minutes with 30 minute to 1 hour gaps accelerates the learning a ton.
• If you can learn to go really slow; then really fast is easy.
• Bike Fit matters just like a Safety bike but more pieces move so patience is required to dial it in.
• Once you think it's going to be tricky, then it's indeed going to be tricky, simply believing you can overcome anything then will get you past this point
• A lot of people don't think it's gong to be tricky and for them it's not; proving it's a mental game.

A huge majority of us that came before the instructions had our What Have I Done moment, for many the thoughts of the money invested pushed us forward through that first 100 miles and over the hurdle. In that way it's easier to learn a bike you didn't borrow because the only path is the one forward.

 

[RojoRacing]

Some of the Salient points that help:

• In the beginning many short sessions 20 minutes with 30 minute to 1 hour gaps accelerates the learning a ton.
• If you can learn to go really slow; then really fast is easy.
• Bike Fit matters just like a Safety bike but more pieces move so patience is required to dial it in.
• Once you think it's going to be tricky, then it's indeed going to be tricky, simply believing you can overcome anything then will get you past this point
• A lot of people don't think it's gong to be tricky and for them it's not; proving it's a mental game.

A huge majority of us that came before the instructions had our What Have I Done moment, for many the thoughts of the money invested pushed us forward thorough that first 100 miles and over the hurdle. In that way it's easy to learn a bike you didn't borrow because the only path in the one forward.

:lol this was totally untrue for me. I went into it thinking it would be easy and was blindsided so hard by the learning curve I was in disbelief. My saving grace was after realizing it was tricky I still know it wasn't impossible and I could still master it anything on two wheels.

 

[ratz]

:lol this was totally untrue for me. I went into it thinking it would be easy and was blindsided so hard by the learning curve I was in disbelief. My saving grace was after realizing it was tricky I still know it wasn't impossible and I could still master it anything on two wheels.

Ha so you went oh shit this hard aka you now believed it was tricky or rather "sneaky tricky" and then your faith in yourself carried your through. That was exactly what I was going for. It's the ok I know this will be different I'm prepared for it; oh crap this is bat crap crazy different. Ok brain we don't lose to inanimate objects so lets get on with learning this thing.

Sounds like you did it old school; just like the old guard around here to me well except the part where you then rode it 24 hours after just 6 weeks.
I remember your posts weeks 2-4 you definitely had low and high moments.

 

[bladderhead]

Heed the word of ratz. Learn to go slow. You can choose to go as fast as you physically can, or choose to hit the brakes. You cannot choose when to stop. Then you have to get going again. High-speed control gets better as the mileage increases. Adjusting it to fit you is more important for a Cruzbike than for other bikes. I found my Silvio was easier to handle when I got short cranks and single chainwheel. Less weight swinging around.

 

[PeteClark]

I would emphasize that it involves learning a new and different skill set. Best to approach that as a challenge, expect a few embarassing failures, laugh at yourself and have fun in the process.

 

[DavidCH]

That's the trouble. You're world class... you want to try the best beast of the bunch and your COG is so way down it's un-nerving.

Start with a rental of a S40 and then switch over to the V20 after 3 weeks. That would be a fast track to not getting white knuckles.

I'm sure the Parkers would collaborate.

 

[RojoRacing]

Analogy time

If you told someone who thinks all alcohol tastes like paint thinner that all they need to do is acquire the taste over time. Then tell them to focus on only drinking one type of hard liquor for 3 weeks strait then move only other alcohols little by little and eventually you'll enjoy it after awhile. Do you think this person would both drinking alcohol when water or the occasional soda taste fine right now?

Now you know why I don't drink and why I don't bother joining everyone else in doing so.

 

[NeaL]

A huge majority of us that came before the instructions had our What Have I Done moment, for many the thoughts of the money invested pushed us forward through that first 100 miles and over the hurdle.

That's where I'm at, "What Have I Done???" My ex-wife took the kids' DF bicycles with her. That makes it difficult for me to go off riding alone on my found-on-Craigslist Sofrider, when my kids need their dad to be present.
On those days of the week when I don't have custody, I don't have much time for bike riding.

Money invested to push me forward? I just ordered three new T50 frame sets for them for Christmas. That's how convinced I am that the FWD recumbent configuration of Cruzbikes is the best thing on two wheels (mass produced and human powered), and how committed I am to getting my body tuned-in on it.
Next, a 4-bike hitch-mount rack. There's 187 miles of path along the C&O Canal and I want to cover every inch of it with my kids on weekend biking/camping trips.

 

[Suz]

Ok you lost me on the alcohol analogy. Ha.

I don't sugar coat it speaking with people, but I try not to dramatize the difficulty either. I'm trying to get a friend converted and am walking the fine line between prepping for a challenge and my excitement for her to get on and get started. It's hard to convince an adult they may not be able to just get on and ride without a learning curve.
There's a big difference between learners with inherent balance issues and people without. I would imagine if a person is world class, balance is easier/faster to overcome. That's why I'll be moving her through Ratz Rules of Riding.
It took me a good 4 months to not feel like a drunk cyclist.
My problem is I forget about the beginning wobbles because after you're through that phase Cruzbikes are so fun to ride!
Good luck with the conversation.

 

[DavidCH]

Yer Good luck. I leant to swim by being chucked in the deep end

 

[ratz]

Analogy time

If I told you the best way to learn to parachute was to run and grab a chute and jump out of a plane. you'd be a very short biker.



I get the analogy I just don't' think it applies. The best way to adapt the brain is to do a concentrated but properly paced learning phase; it's the most successful. Science says motor pathways are best done in small doses at a steady pace where the pace increases with experience. Doesn't matter if it's learning a video game or riding a bike. That's how we learn and burn new paths.... Egos is the only obstacle.

The main reason people learn quick when the come to visit me is I don't let them cheat; and sometimes they get really mad about that at me

 

[hoyden]

There's 187 miles of path along the C&O Canal and I want to cover every inch of it with my kids on weekend biking/camping trips.

I've done that path on my Vision R40 and Bacchetta Strada. Knowing what I know now you've picked bikes that are up to the task. I had 1.5" tires and wouldn't want anything smaller. I found when the trail had mud puddles to slow down and go through the middle because the trail was firm and flat. I tried skirting the edges only a couple times before realizing that slick mud and the slope along the puddle edge was like riding on ice.

The best way to adapt the brain is to do a concentrated but properly paced learning phase;

That's how I learned on my S30 in the local HS parking lot. I was there for about a week before I was confident enough to go out into the wild.

 

[Bill K]

Maybe it would help to focus not on how to learn to ride a recumbent, but why to learn. Make learning to ride a recumbent more desirable and important to that person.
Bullet points could include:
efficiency: ride 25mph on ~200 watts without drafting.
ego: give your buddies a head start, and be able to chase them down.
ego: don't get dropped by RoJo (applies only to world class riders).
And all the classic reasons (hand, neck, back pane) but most of these will not affect a world class rider in their 20's.

 

[NeaL]

And all the classic reasons (hand, neck, back pane) but most of these will not affect a world class rider in their 20's.

Don't forget window pane.

 

[BikeGary]

Having just gotten a S30, the description "it's like learning to ride all over again." applies 100%. I have been doing the 20 to 30 minutes a 3 times a week slow speed riding in my neighborhood for 3 months. I did one commute day, (2x 22 mile rides) and realized I need to be able to ride hills much better to repeat that, so I've added the neighborhood hill to my daily rides.

As for increased speed over my route, I am still doubtful. I may be faster on the flats, and faster downhills, but with traffic and lights, the over all time doesn't look like it's going to change much. I'm still working on switching though to reduce the injuries to my shoulders from my DF.

 

[jond]

Having just gotten a S30, the description "it's like learning to ride all over again." applies 100%. I have been doing the 20 to 30 minutes a 3 times a week slow speed riding in my neighborhood for 3 months. I did one commute day, (2x 22 mile rides) and realized I need to be able to ride hills much better to repeat that, so I've added the neighborhood hill to my daily rides.

As for increased speed over my route, I am still doubtful. I may be faster on the flats, and faster downhills, but with traffic and lights, the over all time doesn't look like it's going to change much. I'm still working on switching though to reduce the injuries to my shoulders from my DF.

It took more than six months to see similar power numbers and increased speed for me on vendetta The nuances of the platform are subtle at the pointy end even after completing the absolutely necessary riding tips from ratz. We are all different and we all learn so.

keep at it. I say a year before you get your full pilot licence. The payoff is worth it ten times over.

Like anything you get out what you put in.