david_kcmo
Active Member
Just looking to keep my toes toasty on s40. Fairings may be the answer.
Fairings! Does anyone use Fairings!
- Thread starter david_kcmo
- Start date
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
I love the idea of a faired V20 or even an S40, I just don't see how either of them could be faired that doesn't limit the maneuverability. In slow speed turns the front triangle swings quite a bit. You might be able to install a small dome-shaped shield that swings with the boom and offers a bit of wind protection for the feet. But what I find that works for me down to about 0C are running socks and then snowboard socks with MTB SPD shoes, and then neoprene toe covers. In Japan we have those chemical heating packets a little smaller than a cigarette pack and thin enough to slide between the neoprene cover and shoe that I believe will help a tad for up to about 6 hours that I have been meaning to try. If those don't heat enough there then I might pull the tongue out of my shoe and slide the packet inside my shoe and on top of my toes. Sliding the packets inside my glove on the top of my fingers had my hands sweating.
tiltmaniac
Zen MBB Master
Foot fairings might work.
Don't necessarily to make something huge to get some advantage and comfort.
Don't necessarily to make something huge to get some advantage and comfort.
Mathew Fy
GRU
How about this one?
blog.icletta.com
Wetterschutz Windwrap XT am Liegerad von Jan aus Dettingen - ICLETTA Culture of Cycling
Frontverkleidung, Wetterschutz, Liegerad, Dreirad
blog.icletta.com
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billyk
Guru
A few comments on stuff said above:
I have more than 10k miles of riding a CB with a fairing (Q45, and before that a QX100 ... and before that some more thousands on a Rans Rocket and a BikeE). It's my much-used raingear as a year round Seattle commuter.
Kind of a necessity in the winter in these parts. Feet are dry. Hands are dry. Drivetrain is dry. Warmer, too. It's huge. Yes, if it rains really hard I get wet, but for our usual drizzly rain and a half hour commute, no.
Frankly, the ability to mount a fairing is why I ride recumbents.
See photo at:
forum.cruzbike.com
Mine is the clear polycarbonate one on the right, home-built. I've also ridden Cruzbikes and the other recumbents with commercial Zzipper and Windwrap fairings, also thousands of miles.
1) People who apparently haven't done it speculate about fairings such as these "If a cross wind were to catch the fairing it could steer you right off the road".
Nope. When Seattle rains it's usually windy too. Being in a gap between two large mountain ranges commonly produces 20mph southerly winds with higher gusts. I ride normally in these, and my usual commute has about a mile completely exposed to the crosswind. Never have felt in any danger of being blown off the road. Yes, I pay more attention in very gusty conditions, but that applies to any rider on any bike.
I think the reason for this is that the fairing does not obstruct crosswinds that blow right through, unlike a wheel disk that would catch crosswinds. (Or a full fairing).
In real world conditions this just is not a problem.
2) it is true that my fairing adds weight to the front end (about 4lb). I notice it when riding slowly. Probably a new rider would find it harder to control. And it's dead weight going uphill (350 ft climb going home at night). Less than desirable, but just something to adjust to if you need to ride in the rain, and being dry makes it worth it.
3) The big difference between my fairing and the commercial ones, and the reason I built it (I have a comparable Zzipper) is that the blown upward curve of the Zzipper blocks my forward view. Mine is built so the straight line of the top is precisely along my line of sight. I want to see that pothole or patch of gravel before I hit it.
My fairing is built to just clear my hands, knees and feet. A straight line does that. Then it curves down in front.
However, my angular fairing with its blunt front doesn't give much if any reduction of drag. The Zzipper definitely does, maybe 5% or so speed increase on downhill roll tests.
If you live in a rainy climate a fairing is the shit, and the warmth and dryness makes the awkwardness of the weight in front well worth it.
I have more than 10k miles of riding a CB with a fairing (Q45, and before that a QX100 ... and before that some more thousands on a Rans Rocket and a BikeE). It's my much-used raingear as a year round Seattle commuter.
Kind of a necessity in the winter in these parts. Feet are dry. Hands are dry. Drivetrain is dry. Warmer, too. It's huge. Yes, if it rains really hard I get wet, but for our usual drizzly rain and a half hour commute, no.
Frankly, the ability to mount a fairing is why I ride recumbents.
See photo at:
Cruzbike PPE. Two versions
Two Cruzbikes are closer than 6 feet, but since one has a mask and the other a face shield, they're probably safe enough. @Tortue rode over for a raingear comparison today. His mask is light, elegantly made with 3-d printed connecting parts, and gives him great visibility in traffic. Mine has...
forum.cruzbike.com
Mine is the clear polycarbonate one on the right, home-built. I've also ridden Cruzbikes and the other recumbents with commercial Zzipper and Windwrap fairings, also thousands of miles.
1) People who apparently haven't done it speculate about fairings such as these "If a cross wind were to catch the fairing it could steer you right off the road".
Nope. When Seattle rains it's usually windy too. Being in a gap between two large mountain ranges commonly produces 20mph southerly winds with higher gusts. I ride normally in these, and my usual commute has about a mile completely exposed to the crosswind. Never have felt in any danger of being blown off the road. Yes, I pay more attention in very gusty conditions, but that applies to any rider on any bike.
I think the reason for this is that the fairing does not obstruct crosswinds that blow right through, unlike a wheel disk that would catch crosswinds. (Or a full fairing).
In real world conditions this just is not a problem.
2) it is true that my fairing adds weight to the front end (about 4lb). I notice it when riding slowly. Probably a new rider would find it harder to control. And it's dead weight going uphill (350 ft climb going home at night). Less than desirable, but just something to adjust to if you need to ride in the rain, and being dry makes it worth it.
3) The big difference between my fairing and the commercial ones, and the reason I built it (I have a comparable Zzipper) is that the blown upward curve of the Zzipper blocks my forward view. Mine is built so the straight line of the top is precisely along my line of sight. I want to see that pothole or patch of gravel before I hit it.
My fairing is built to just clear my hands, knees and feet. A straight line does that. Then it curves down in front.
However, my angular fairing with its blunt front doesn't give much if any reduction of drag. The Zzipper definitely does, maybe 5% or so speed increase on downhill roll tests.
If you live in a rainy climate a fairing is the shit, and the warmth and dryness makes the awkwardness of the weight in front well worth it.
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Doug Burton
Zen MBB Master
We looked at this early in the development of the V1.0 Silvio.
This got exciting when large, non-aerodynamic, blunt-faced vehicles passed nearby at high speed. The airflow characteristics in that scenario are very strange. Nobody wants to get sucked up under a truck.
Bearing in mind that you, as the product owner, can do things that manufacturers can't necessarily do.
I used a fairing on all my old Visions and loved them. Worked well in the rain down to 38F. I kept the fairing to play with on my Cruzbikes, but never did anything with it.
While maybe a consideration is the particular case of having the fairing mounted on the steering assembly, I am reminded that multitudes of Tour Easy's have been equipped with steering-mounted fairings from the beginnings of popular recumbent history. Never heard anything bad about it.
This got exciting when large, non-aerodynamic, blunt-faced vehicles passed nearby at high speed. The airflow characteristics in that scenario are very strange. Nobody wants to get sucked up under a truck.
Bearing in mind that you, as the product owner, can do things that manufacturers can't necessarily do.
I used a fairing on all my old Visions and loved them. Worked well in the rain down to 38F. I kept the fairing to play with on my Cruzbikes, but never did anything with it.
While maybe a consideration is the particular case of having the fairing mounted on the steering assembly, I am reminded that multitudes of Tour Easy's have been equipped with steering-mounted fairings from the beginnings of popular recumbent history. Never heard anything bad about it.
JOSEPHWEISSERT
Zen MBB Master
billyk
Guru
Good points, @Doug Burton and @JOSEPHWEISSERT .
I haven't been close enough to a big truck to feel any suction, but will be careful in the future. And I mostly ride on urban streets where the traffic isn't very fast.
I will say that I don't mind riding near trucks and buses, because these professional drivers usually know how to use their mirrors and where the corners of their vehicles are. Far too many American car drivers have no idea!
And you're right about glare at night. At first I had my light mounted to the handlebars behind the fairing. Wrong! Totally lit up the plastic and I could see little in front. Same for a helmet mount light. So I made an ugly arm that holds the light well off to the left with some tape to shield the part of the beam that would light up the fairing. Again a compromise (kludge?) ... solve one problem but make another ... then solve that problem and ...
I haven't been close enough to a big truck to feel any suction, but will be careful in the future. And I mostly ride on urban streets where the traffic isn't very fast.
I will say that I don't mind riding near trucks and buses, because these professional drivers usually know how to use their mirrors and where the corners of their vehicles are. Far too many American car drivers have no idea!
And you're right about glare at night. At first I had my light mounted to the handlebars behind the fairing. Wrong! Totally lit up the plastic and I could see little in front. Same for a helmet mount light. So I made an ugly arm that holds the light well off to the left with some tape to shield the part of the beam that would light up the fairing. Again a compromise (kludge?) ... solve one problem but make another ... then solve that problem and ...
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rdl03
Active Member
Where are you located. Would you be open to my coming by to look at this in person? (I'm out in Woodinville).A few comments on stuff said above:
I have more than 10k miles of riding a CB with a fairing (Q45, and before that a QX100 ... and before that some more thousands on a Rans Rocket and a BikeE). It's my much-used raingear as a year round Seattle commuter.
Kind of a necessity in the winter in these parts. Feet are dry. Hands are dry. Drivetrain is dry. Warmer, too. It's huge. Yes, if it rains really hard I get wet, but for our usual drizzly rain and a half hour commute, no.
Frankly, the ability to mount a fairing is why I ride recumbents.
See photo at:
Cruzbike PPE. Two versions
Two Cruzbikes are closer than 6 feet, but since one has a mask and the other a face shield, they're probably safe enough. @Tortue rode over for a raingear comparison today. His mask is light, elegantly made with 3-d printed connecting parts, and gives him great visibility in traffic. Mine has...
Mine is the clear polycarbonate one on the right, home-built. I've also ridden Cruzbikes and the other recumbents with commercial Zzipper and Windwrap fairings, also thousands of miles.
1) People who apparently haven't done it speculate about fairings such as these "If a cross wind were to catch the fairing it could steer you right off the road".
Nope. When Seattle rains it's usually windy too. Being in a gap between two large mountain ranges commonly produces 20mph southerly winds with higher gusts. I ride normally in these, and my usual commute has about a mile completely exposed to the crosswind. Never have felt in any danger of being blown off the road. Yes, I pay more attention in very gusty conditions, but that applies to any rider on any bike.
I think the reason for this is that the fairing does not obstruct crosswinds that blow right through, unlike a wheel disk that would catch crosswinds. (Or a full fairing).
In real world conditions this just is not a problem.
2) it is true that my fairing adds weight to the front end (about 4lb). I notice it when riding slowly. Probably a new rider would find it harder to control. And it's dead weight going uphill (350 ft climb going home at night). Less than desirable, but just something to adjust to if you need to ride in the rain, and being dry makes it worth it.
3) The big difference between my fairing and the commercial ones, and the reason I built it (I have a comparable Zzipper) is that the blown upward curve of the Zzipper blocks my forward view. Mine is built so the straight line of the top is precisely along my line of sight. I want to see that pothole or patch of gravel before I hit it.
My fairing is built to just clear my hands, knees and feet. A straight line does that. Then it curves down in front.
However, my angular fairing with its blunt front doesn't give much if any reduction of drag. The Zzipper definitely does, maybe 5% or so speed increase on downhill roll tests.
If you live in a rainy climate a fairing is the shit, and the warmth and dryness makes the awkwardness of the weight in front well worth it.
thanks!
rdl03
Active Member
I have a 2021 S40 that I built up from the frame. I'm only at around 4-500km total on it - the longest ride a pretty flat100km. I just switched my indoor setup to an old Burley recumbent, which I'm hoping will help with getting my legs more used to a 'bent.
Will get in touch in December.
Graham Mccollum
New Member
I too have added a fairing to my T50. It does get heavey and can be a little twitchy on windy days but nothing that can't be handled once you are happy with MBB.
I used the wind wrap large wide fairing. Used to have it on my ICE Sprint 26 trike. Just cut down the vertical support to size and bodged the jubilee clips around the bottom bracket shell. It's solid but doesn't look pretty. Keeps me very warm in winter and dry.
Totally agree. Half fairings don't make you faster...especially when you are already on a recumbent...but they sure do make you warmer. I'm cheating with a hub motor so the weight penalty doesn't bother me despite the west Yorkshire terrain.
I used the wind wrap large wide fairing. Used to have it on my ICE Sprint 26 trike. Just cut down the vertical support to size and bodged the jubilee clips around the bottom bracket shell. It's solid but doesn't look pretty. Keeps me very warm in winter and dry.
Totally agree. Half fairings don't make you faster...especially when you are already on a recumbent...but they sure do make you warmer. I'm cheating with a hub motor so the weight penalty doesn't bother me despite the west Yorkshire terrain.
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cruzKurt
Guru
Could I get some more details on this fairing? I would love to experiment with something like this. I ride most days and spend a lot of time looking down that boom and slider thinking that a fairing would be awesome, especially since it is cold out now.
Specifically, did you make the fairing? If not, did you buy it and what type of bike was it made for?
JOSEPHWEISSERT
Zen MBB Master
I will get you some details soon. I might also want to sell mine. I built an adapter for my V20. But if I kept the fairing, I would use it on my fat trike. More to follow.
Edit:
2020 TerraCycle Windwrap bubble clear fairing. Fairing mounting hardware kit. Boom mounting clamp 1.625 inch. New fairing scratch remover and polish kit.
condition: like new
make / manufacturer: TerraCycle
model name / number: WINTR Fairing Kit
Original investment: $724.00.
This can be used with a CruzBike V20 as shown in the photos, but is intended for use on a trike. Custom V20 adapter included.
Edit 2: SOLD
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Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
This discussion intrigued me when I saw it. I have been working on an enclosed fairing for the V20 that extends about 10" ahead of the 165 mm crank/shoe sweep volume and stops just beyond the leading edge of the seat. It took a while to fit the normal crank/shoe sweep volume into an acceptable aerodynamic shape. There will be turbulence losses inside the shell that are hard to inhibit (but that is cooling circulation in the summer...). At the location and angle of the fork axis, the two sides will articulate/hinge so that I have normal rotation of the MBB front end and no impingement on my hips. I have gone to a 17.5" front chainstay to get the feet and fairing down low enough so that I have good visibility. My knees will pop out of a cutout on top by ~6" and I have a cut in the bottom for front wheel, chainstay/fork, and foot-to-ground drop during stops. No bomb bay doors. I had the male plug 3D-milled from EPS foam and will start smoothing it a bit and giving it an epoxy hard coat. It will be re-useable because I anticipate at least one big screwup during initial build. Should get the milled foam in the mail in two days. The fairing is wet layup in carbon fiber/epoxy over that foam (using release film) and I will have to do some extra epoxy coats, sanding, and polishing to get a good outer surface finish. The mold is split vertically about the bike centerline so that it is easier to work with and easy to create the framing to the bike and any extra shell stiffening.
I will post actual pictures some time in the first six months of '23 when some real physical progress has been made. Will be interesting to see how it behaves in side winds. At the moment the handlebars are outside the fairing as I do not like a narrow bar width. The fairing lines blend into my waistline at the aft end overall making the bike and rider look a little like a tadpole from the side (think about the body of a soaring glider, except uglier and short). I have determined that a clear cutout opening for the shoe to get to the road during a stop has to start at about at the front axle. I am a little worried about cleat release from the pedals but that might be more technique than anything else. I will fab the right-side half shell first and do all the frame locating/mounting, stiffening, test riding and then do a mirror fab of it for the left side. The derailleur will stick out the bottom about halfway so will need a cutout.
I will post actual pictures some time in the first six months of '23 when some real physical progress has been made. Will be interesting to see how it behaves in side winds. At the moment the handlebars are outside the fairing as I do not like a narrow bar width. The fairing lines blend into my waistline at the aft end overall making the bike and rider look a little like a tadpole from the side (think about the body of a soaring glider, except uglier and short). I have determined that a clear cutout opening for the shoe to get to the road during a stop has to start at about at the front axle. I am a little worried about cleat release from the pedals but that might be more technique than anything else. I will fab the right-side half shell first and do all the frame locating/mounting, stiffening, test riding and then do a mirror fab of it for the left side. The derailleur will stick out the bottom about halfway so will need a cutout.
david_kcmo
Active Member
Wow! This sounds awesome!
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
These show the foam plug halves before hard coat and some smoothing, and initial side view illustration of fairing position to V20. Too cold at the moment to do any epoxy layup work. Estimate of hinge location at black angled line. Will start to develop support and stiffening after right half shell (~3 mm thick) is completed.
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cruzKurt
Guru
Awesome, curious as to what software was used to design the fairing, and what process was used to shape the foam. Great job! I have always thought my v20 would make a great streamliner.
Bill Wightman
Well-Known Member
I used SolidWorks for the modeling. Using surfaces first, then converting them to solids is easiest and gives the most design flexibility. There is a CAD program called OnShape that may be similar but has a free version. Actually Powerpoint or similar presentation programs are useful for overlay and scaling purposes. Accuracy is about +/-.5" (13mm) for this application in Powerpoint. I did a test wet carbon/epoxy layup on a rounded block of foam and was very happy with the finish after all sanding, polishing, and two coats of car wax left it silky smooth. I followed this video suggested method:
Once the fairing model surface was generated (revision 13...), a model solid was made and I carved out the middle of the model to reduce foam shipping weight. I sent a STEP conversion file format of the file to a company that does 3D EPS foam milling (as well as any other foam work you can imagine). The vendor milled the right side and the mirror left side. I could have shaped the foam by hand with templates but life is too short so I had it done quickly and exactly to the model.
I am purposefully avoiding a full streamliner design. The primary objective is to be very careful with the airflow in the front 1/3 to 1/2 of the bike to maintain near-laminar flow. The fairing drastically reduces/eliminates parasitic drag in the front of the bike. As airflow leaves the fairing then it is a normal bike and rider with the exception that the bike/rider is still in a nearly undisturbed flow state (drafting the fairing) and there are no further glaring new airflow obstructions except the great big head and helmet. With the exposed flow over the body I can get cooling in the hot Houston summers and should also have the flexibility to start and stop like common road bikes. I will chop away at the fairing until that is the case. A limited streamliner reduces weight and skin drag at the cost of higher turbulence in the aft sections of the bike, compared to a full streamliner. Also I am a 200 lb small boat sailor, so I do not mind getting blown around if that is what this design does in a breeze. The two articulating side panels at the hips will be interesting. I am using 3D PETG printing for special joints and hinges. We will see, one step at a time.
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