First 200km brevet and new plans...

[t.c103]

Hi
Did my first 200 km brevet last Saturday and it was nice. Felt good most of the time.. last 20km was heavier because of miscalculation in water and bar consumption... The bike is a original sofrider V1 and worked without any trouble. Also did my bicycle speed record that day 59km on a downhill and the bike just felt solid..

Lots of ours on the bike and lots of time to think.... I have never ever been or consider my self as a cyclist and before I tried and learn how to ride the sofrider I never ever had the idea of cycle 200 km in one day... This brevet was the last for this season here ( winter soon) but I liked distance cycling and will go further and faster next year, who knows, maybe I end up as a 50 years old ultracyclist next year.... it will take more and various training during wintertime and maybe, maybe a new investment.

I have some questions about that and I hope some of you with experience will share some advice.... The question is, should I go for a Silvio or a vendetta? The question has been up before on the forum but some older threads I think... and still, I do not know witch way to go....

In one hand I like the Silvio because it will be more comfortable and it might be a strength in long rides. I also think that the seat angle will be better because almost every other rider ride DF here and therefore it might be more social with the Silvio.....
On the other hand, I want to ride as fast asp. I am not a big guy, 76 kg (next season offcourse...) and I think some extra weight on the bike will effect more with a lightweight rider then a heavy rider.... ??
More reclined seat and lower weight on the Vendetta will probably make me faster...

Most people here on the forum that ride in some kind of races use vendettas so therefore it might be the simple answer for me. But still I see the Silvio as an option for reasons above... So witch one should I go for?? How much speed will I loose on the Silvio?? Will there ever be a "Silvetta" to choose?
There is no way I can buy one of the bikes and regret my choice afterwards unless I win the lottery....

I will appreciate your advice,

Thanks.

 

[DuncanWatson]

I recently went through this thought process myself. Either bike works for brevets assuming you can solve the bag issue (there are multiple solutions). The Silvio makes chipseal nicer the Vendettas has more top end and speed potential. In the end I choose the Vendetta for myself since I am more of a go-light rider in my planning. Light and hopefully fast using dropbags when available. Routes up here in the PNW do involve chipseal and there is the odd gravel road so I need to pay attention and know what I am getting into but I thought the trade-off was worth it for me. My goal is PBP 2019 during my 50th year.

Others have faced the same decision and chosen the Silvio.

 

[castlerobber]

I ride mostly by myself on country roads, that may have potholes and/or chip-seal, and on rail-trails. I don't race, and I prefer a more upright seat angle. My goals are much more modest that most here; I may attempt my first century in the next year or two. For me, the Silvio was the way to go. It's capable of more speed than the engine can produce.

 

[ratz]

That can be a tricky question as not a lot of people have compiled miles on both. Since you are talking Brevet's where a ALOT can happen that is variable, I think, you need too look at broad data. This screen shot shows my modest ride data on both bikes since first getting on the cruzbike mbb. This is door to door data, it includes stop lights, stop signs, bike paths, nature breaks, pulling kids in a trailer etc. It's not race data, it's what happens when you just go ride data.



If you aren't going to go do go-very-fast stuff this data shows that the Silvio is a fine bike to begin doing Brevets with. I'd have no issue jumping on the Silvio for 100+ miles with about 30 minutes of preparation thinking and loading of supplies.

 

[t.c103]

Hi
Thanks all for sharing,

ratz: Thanks very much for sharing your data over all those miles. The speed difference is little less than one mile/h and that does not seem to be a lot if the ride are not about racing. In a longer brevet distance it will off course effect time on the bike but so much can happen in a brevet that can increase the riding time a lot more....
For a brevet bike there should be some benefits with a more upright position because of traffic... ( one thing that really concerns me because of no experience except for the sofrider..) In theory, maybe a Silvetta is the brevet choice .... Even if so- that's not an option, at least not now....

So... I will continue my process "choose the perfect bike"... More advice are very welcome....

one question of pure curiosity...
What would the difference be between a " Silvetta" and the two existing bikes.
There´s probably three things only that make the the Vendetta faster, aero, weight and maybe a some stiffer chainline.
It will be faster than the Silvio... Even if the question is impossible to answer it´s interesting to think about how close it will come to a vendetta.
What do you think??

 

[ratz]

Hi
one question of pure curiosity...
What would the difference be between a " Silvetta" and the two existing bikes.
There´s probably three things only that make the the Vendetta faster, aero, weight and maybe a some stiffer chainline.
It will be faster than the Silvio... Even if the question is impossible to answer it´s interesting to think about how close it will come to a vendetta.
What do you think??

Silvetta would climb better if you ware someone that creates more power in a closed hip position. If I recall correctly @scabinetguy enjoys his on hill rides.

 

[MrSteve]

So... I will continue my process "choose the perfect bike"... More advice are very welcome....

one question of pure curiosity...
What would the difference be between a " Silvetta" and the two existing bikes.
There´s probably three things only that make the the Vendetta faster, aero, weight and maybe a some stiffer chainline.
It will be faster than the Silvio... Even if the question is impossible to answer it´s interesting to think about how close it will come to a vendetta.
What do you think??

The Vendetta is fast because it was designed to be the fastest unfaired commercially made recumbent in the world.
Everything about putting the rider's power to the ground was optimised.
Everything about aerodynamic efficiency was optimised.
Light weight, in the context of production efficiency was a priority.

So I think that the Vendetta is in a class of it's own and it's advantages over a 'Silvetta' add up to more than three.

On the other hand, my customised Sofrider V1 has a lower seat angle than the Vendetta, weighs a lot more
than the Vendetta and has full suspension.
So, maybe my hotrod Sofrider can fill in, or stand in for the 'Silvetta.'
My Sofrider is almost as fast on level ground as my Vendetta, accelerates as quickly as the Vendetta down hill and is a bit more comfortable.
Uphill, the Vendetta is much, much faster than is my hotrod Sofrider.
Downhill, the Vendetta has a much higher top speed than my hotrod Sofrider has.
On the flat, the Vendetta is a few MPH faster and it's easier to maintain that higher speed than my Sofrider.

My conclusions?
In my hilly area, the Vendetta is my main ride. It's very fast uphill so, it's a winner and it's a keeper.
If I rode relatively long distances on less hilly/more flat routes, I'd choose to ride my Sofrider some of the time.
If I were to ride ultra distances or brevets, I'd choose to ride my Sofrider most of the time.

The Vendetta is a Time Trial bike that also does very well as a road bike.
The Silvetta concept would be a mildly hotrodded Silvio and it would also do well as a road bike.

That's my opinion.

P.S.
Don't forget about the Quest!
That bike is a more mature, more capable design than my Sofrider!

 

[ratz]

Silvetta would climb better if you ware someone that creates more power in a closed hip position. If I recall correctly @scabinetguy enjoys his on hill rides.

One thing I should mention, to build a Silvette you'd need a Silvio and a Vendetta 2 front end, @Robert Holler mention that the rake and trail on the new V20 fork is different making it twitchy when installed on a Silvio or a Vendetta 2, therefore it would be unsuitable for building a Silvetta.

my customised Sofrider V1

That beast is in a class of its own I remember mistakenly chuckling at it the first time I saw a photo; a mistake I would not make today.

P.S.
Don't forget about the Quest!
That bike is a more mature, more capable design than my Sofrider!

In my opinion to make a Quest suitable for a Brevet ride you would need (1) the Long chain stay, (2) replace the dualdrive with a traditional derailleur, (3) get better rims and hubs made, (4) lower the seat to about 30 degrees at the least. That is based on my riding it in some local centuries with my kids. With 1-3 and 43 degree seat I could hold off the 7 man pace-line of carbon fiber wonder bikes; but at the end of the day I was utterly spent and that was from averaging 17mph on the 55mile course with 4000ft of climbing. If I had lowered the seat and selected my better pedals and shoes I think i'd have faired much better. Another thing that is over looked is you CAN swap out the Square tapper BB on the Quest for a GXP style and BB which will give you a better chain-line for a full derailuer setup. I plan to do that this winter.

I long to see a quest that inherits some more of the Silvios features to give us an entry level road bike the DualDrive is nice but the weight and and cost it adds to the bike are detrimental to some potential applications. Having two configure DD and Traditional of that bike would go a long ways to expanding the appeal at the entry level.

 

[ratz]

One more picture to help paint the picture.

Here's a power comparison. This a graph of my all out power sprinting doing 15 laps up a short hill i use for training. Dark Purple is the Silvio with a 50mm extension. Red is the Vendetta Medium frame.

As you can see. My 15s power on both bikes is about the same. My Instantaneous Power is much higher on the Vendetta. My Power drops of quickly on the Silvio when I have to maintain more than 15s. After 1m the graphs tend to merge; and aero becomes the trump card but the Silvio does lag a little; However after 1m to the "line" I ride become too variable to be meaningful in a side by side comparison.

 

[MrSteve]

The power graphs are nice!
Your Vendetta front end is doing what it was designed to do: Transmit your power;
your Silvio front end is also doing it's job: soaking up the 'bumps' in it's suspension.

My weak legs have found only two weaknesses in my Vendetta.
When there's too much power for the contact patch, the tire breaks traction and chirps.
When there's too much power flowing through the front triangle for too long, weak links are exposed.
Keep an eye on things... for example, my old-faithful, lightweight resin pedals' sealed bearings are toast.
Please join with me for a moment of silence, as we thank the faithful old pedals for their long service .... thank you.

 

[ratz]

Your Vendetta front end is doing what it was designed to do: Transmit your power;
your Silvio front end is also doing it's job: soaking up the 'bumps' in it's suspension.

Yes they are, it should also be noted the test loop was selected to get those types of results; they aren't going to happen on the open road. But it makes comparing a lot easier with a controlled test loop

When there's too much power for the contact patch, the tire breaks traction and chirps.
When there's too much power flowing through the front triangle for too long, weak links are exposed.

Ditto; inspect often; tight as needed never over tighten.

 

[t.c103]

thanks for sharing....
I have no plans of building my own silvetta... but some other threads tells that the model might be a reality ... not for speed reasons but still it should make the speed difference between v20 and s30 even less....

any thoughts about how the S 30 will compare to the 2.1