First Cruzbike s40 vs v20c

[Damien]

@chicorider Thank you so much for such a detailed explanation. I think I now know everything I wanted. I believe I'm ready to take the risk. The problems, as you mentioned, may not occur for me. I'll ride and see – if any issues come up, I'll try the solutions from the forum. If not, I'll sell it, and if I lose a little money, it's not the end of the world. Even if I end up having major issues with it, it won't be a disaster. I'll gain new experience, even if it's a bit of a pain. The V20 is definitely a great machine, but the S40 fits my riding style and the terrain where I live much better – there's no doubt about that anymore, as Larry cleared it up for me.

Another thing that works in my favor is that I'm lightweight and spend 8 or more hours a day working in front of a computer. I also rarely ride more than 100 km without breaks – even just for a moment.

Besides that, I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't do any voodoo-like rituals before long brevets. I've never owned expensive bib shorts like Assos costing more than $60. I don't even use chamois cream. My butt is practically made of titanium, and that's my pride

 

[roadhog]

Now you only have to wait for the s40 frames to be back in stock.
Recumbutt does not relate to being able to sit on a regular saddle. It is about sitting on working muscles.
I get no pain pedalling either hard or soft only medium.
Lucky for you the alterntive seat is made in Poland.

 

[Damien]

A certain doubt came to my mind. I know that the S40 is better than the V20c when it comes to climbing hills—and I definitely have a lot of hilly rides around my home.
The question is, wouldn't setting the seat to its most upright position (I know from this forum - it is possible) on the V20c make it easier to ride uphill? The doubt comes from the fact that the V20c has that something—carbon, that vibe of a more race-oriented bike. In the end, I'm wondering if I might soon feel the call for speed and regret choosing the less sporty model. The V20c is more sexy, ultimate, and uncompromising—like a Ferrari. The S40 is more like a sporty Lexus.

 

[IyhelM]

What average gradient and what hill length are we talking about?

 

[cpml123]

A certain doubt came to my mind. I know that the S40 is better than the V20c when it comes to climbing hills—and I definitely have a lot of hilly rides around my home.
The question is, wouldn't setting the seat to its most upright position (I know from this forum - it is possible) on the V20c make it easier to ride uphill? The doubt comes from the fact that the V20c has that something—carbon, that vibe of a more race-oriented bike. In the end, I'm wondering if I might soon feel the call for speed and regret choosing the less sporty model. The V20c is more sexy, ultimate, and uncompromising—like a Ferrari. The S40 is more like a sporty Lexus.

I have S40 and V20. I feel I can put out more power for the same heat rate. It's very helpful for climbing hills at 8-14% grade.

 

[JerseyJim]

A certain doubt came to my mind. I know that the S40 is better than the V20c when it comes to climbing hills—and I definitely have a lot of hilly rides around my home.
The question is, wouldn't setting the seat to its most upright position (I know from this forum - it is possible) on the V20c make it easier to ride uphill? The doubt comes from the fact that the V20c has that something—carbon, that vibe of a more race-oriented bike. In the end, I'm wondering if I might soon feel the call for speed and regret choosing the less sporty model. The V20c is more sexy, ultimate, and uncompromising—like a Ferrari. The S40 is more like a sporty Lexus.

There are members of the forum who have been experimenting with an adjustable seat mechanism for the V20. Here's one thread with a video of a working prototype. I also recall seeing some 3D cad models being shared recently.

seat adjustment

I have been driving since spring with a seat adjustment, which I find very useful

forum.cruzbike.com

Adjustable seat angle ideas

I got my Thor seat for my V20 in the mail. Since it's the off season I am not in a hurry to mount it, so I have some time to consider a way to make the seat angle adjustable. I just want something that when I am going slower I can sit up and have the advantages of that: little better climbing...

forum.cruzbike.com

 

[Karl42]

I have S40 and V20. I feel I can put out more power for the same heat rate. It's very helpful for climbing hills at 8-14% grade.

Put out more power with which bike?

 

[Karl42]

There are members of the forum who have been experimenting with an adjustable seat mechanism for the V20. Here's one thread with a video of a working prototype. I also recall seeing some 3D cad models being shared recently.

You want this thread: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/climbing.15729/

Building a variable seat angle solution for my V20 is also something that I want to do, and my approach will be closely based on the second one in that thread.

 

[Damien]

What average gradient and what hill length are we talking about?

I can't say what the average gradient is. But in general, it varies depending on the road. In the nearby area where I'll be riding most often, the climbs are usually short but often steep, ranging from 6% to 14%. The riding here is very interval-based. A bit farther away in the foothills, on small local roads, the elevation changes can be quite brutal—sometimes even around 20%. However, these are just numbers, and in the end, everyone has a different fitness level and different needs.

But this area is cut by the valley of a large river, along which it's flat. That's why I need a universal drivetrain. On my road bike, I currently have a 50/34 crankset in the front and 11/36 in the back, though I've also ridden with 11/34 (I remember brevets where I would ask the guys behind me if I really didn't have a bigger cog on the cassette during a climb, with my tongue practically in the spokes, while struggling up some steep wall with 11/34 cassette) and 11/29 (but that one was already too small).

When I do a 50 km (31-mile) training ride, I typically have between 500 m (1,640 ft) and 900 m (2,952 ft) of elevation gain.

 

[IyhelM]

I asked because for example if the average gradients you ride were around 5%, I would say that a V20 would be better suited; but if, as you described, it often goes over 10%, you’re probably better with a S40.
Marco Ruga (who also lurks around) posted a video some time ago comparing his power output on a TT bike and a FWD recumbent with the seat at either 38º or 30º:

It seems that the closer the angle between torso and legs, the more power you can sustain (as always take generalisation with a pinch of salt as it will vary with everyone actual position and level of fitness).
You can always ‘cheat’ on short hills by pulling yourself up with your arms but it is not sustainable on long climbs unless you have a very strong upper body.

That being said (and that’s not going to help you choose) I have tackled many steep climbs in the Jura and the Pyrénées with a Vendetta (albeit a V1, the seat at around 24º), you just need the right gearing.

Whatever bike you go for, I’m sure you’ll love it.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

Hi Damian,
I used to ride audax and other long stuff before the old fibromyalgia made it too painful and stole my energy, hence a cruzbike. I was very very keen on hills. Being in Ireland I was in the same situation price wise as you are but took the plunge on a S40 and am glad I did as it's basically kept me cycling.
One thing to consider which I dont see mentioned often is do you naturally climb out of the saddle a lot? If like me you do then a recumbent does feel harder up the hills. I imagine if you are a powerful naturally seated climber it makes far less difference. I found shorter 150mm cranks and spinning lots helped me with this.
I've not really done anything over 3 hour rides on it but if I was up to it I'd imagine it would be an ideal audax/randoneur machine. If it's very steep with a wet or loose surface you can wheelspin. But if you choose your line and concentrate you can actually get it up some pretty gnarly stuff.
Hope whatever you choose suits you.
Tim.

 

[Damien]

Thanks for your advice!
I usually keep my butt on the saddle during climbs, especially on brevets—to save my knees. I’ve actually read somewhere that on steeper climbs, Cruzbike tends to lose traction. Interesting ...

 

[ak-tux]

Thanks for your advice!
I usually keep my butt on the saddle during climbs, especially on brevets—to save my knees. I’ve actually read somewhere that on steeper climbs, Cruzbike tends to lose traction. Interesting ...

Yes, under certian conditions:
1. Wet surfaces/loose surfaces (especially without sufficient momentum)
2. Sudden increase in torque
3. hill starts especially starting on super low gear

I find riding the S40 from 13-15% (and above) likely to create lose of traction.
At these steep grades it takes:
1. a smooth steady cadence
2. occasionally seating up(to shift weight forward)
3. a good tire choice with good grip at optimum tire pressure
5. approach the climb with some momemtum (If you stop it's all over)
4. some skill and finesse (at low speeds)

 

[Damien]

Yes, under certian conditions:
1. Wet surfaces/loose surfaces (especially without sufficient momentum)
2. Sudden increase in torque
3. hill starts especially starting on super low gear

This situation can happen on upright bike too. It not big deal IMO.

At these steep grades it takes:
1. a smooth steady cadence
2. occasionally seating up(to shift weight forward)
3. a good tire choice with good grip at optimum tire pressure
5. approach the climb with some momemtum (If you stop it's all over)
4. some skill and finesse (at low speeds)

@ak-tux
Thank you for the information. I don't think it will be a big problem – I prefer smooth asphalt for riding. I believe I'll get the hang of it quickly during the learning process. I'll start practicing uphill riding as soon as I feel confident enough to ride on real streets – after the phase of learning to ride in parking lots and on flat bike paths or in parks.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

This situation can happen on upright bike too. It not big deal IMO.


@ak-tux
Thank you for the information. I don't think it will be a big problem – I prefer smooth asphalt for riding. I believe I'll get the hang of it quickly during the learning process. I'll start practicing uphill riding as soon as I feel confident enough to ride on real streets – after the phase of learning to ride in parking lots and on flat bike paths o

This situation can happen on upright bike too. It not big deal IMO.


@ak-tux
Thank you for the information. I don't think it will be a big problem – I prefer smooth asphalt for riding. I believe I'll get the hang of it quickly during the learning process. I'll start practicing uphill riding as soon as I feel confident enough to ride on real streets – after the phase of learning to ride in parking lots and on flat bike paths or in parks.

I've constantly rode bikes for the last nearly 50 years including a lot of BMX. A recumbent is a different kettle of fish with your back being the main point of contact. If you find it hard at first give it a chance. Once your relaxed it's great.