First Look - The Warp Cruzer

[Tarmac Terrorist]

There is still a bit to do and plenty of fabrication to complete but I like the way it is coming together. I wanted something close to a Silvio and I am happy I have achieved that. This is not the final setup for handlebars; I have a head stem I am fabricating with an angle that will match the down tube. Also there will be a head rest.

 

[defjack]

   I use Wald 8095 touring

I use Wald 8095 touring bars and they work great just the right width and they wont flex like some bars. Jack

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

I got the Moustache bar

I got the Moustache bar specially for the knee clearance required due to a short steering tube but those bars look nice on your Silivo. I had similar ones in Holland on my Gazelle.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Jeff,
Lookin' good! She's

Hi Jeff,

Lookin' good! She's going to be pretty when she's done. Keep the pictures coming!

Cheers, Charles

 

[Eric Winn]

How are you supporting the

How are you supporting the seat back?

-Eric

 

[BobD]

Really nice looking bike Jeff!

What brakes are you using?
I am planning to switch from 26" to 700c wheels. Was looking at Paul brakes but would like a less expensive option.
Bob

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

Eric, you will have to wait

Eric, you will have to wait for the photos but there is an aluminium square tube supporting the seat back as well as the seat pan. The tube has been strengthen using an epoxy bonded lamination technique using aluminium square tube and flat bar, essentially one tube inside another with flat bar supporting it from deforming.
Bob, these are 26in wheels and the brakes are "power tools" that were standard on the Giant Warp DS2 in 2000. If you thought there were 700c that is because of the special Schwalbe Kojak tyres 26 X 1.35

This is an example of the epoxy bonded lamination technique using aluminium square tube and flat bar. Every thing in the first photo is coated in exopy cement and inserted into the larger tube. See the lower picture.

 

[MrSteve]

Excellent!

Beautiful work.



-Steve

 

[Eric Winn]

Hmmm, I do wish you success

Hmmm, I do wish you success but even with strengthening that horizontal tube under the bottom seat pan with your laminating technique it looks like the longer lever arm of the seat back is likely to cause failure at the horizontal seat pan base and main down tube joint.

I did a 22 mile ride yesterday with a lot of rollers (hills) on a Quest and I can feel the rear shock depress when I'm working hard to maintain or increase my uphill speed - eg a lot of backwards pressure on the seat back.

Have you considered closing the open triangle of the shock "Y" in some fashion that leaves the shock assembly accessible and/or provides the necessary clearance? This would give you a brace to help oppose the lever arm force of rearward force on the seat back.

-Eric

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

Hi Eric, Yes that was the

Hi Eric, Yes that was the original plan "Struts and Stays" but I came up with this one. The tube supporting the seat pan and back rest is a heavy 2mm oblong tube with internal and external lamination that extends deep into the frame where it is "glued and screwed" (Epoxy and pop rivets) as well as supported top and bottom by the original frame which is strengthened at the contact points for extra support. I appreciate your suggestion, I am aware this is the weak link in the design and I am attempting to "over engineer" it into submission.

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

The latest photo - Taken before the first test ride

You lot were not kidding - These things are like learning to ride all over again. I can coast OK (just OK) but as soon as I try and put my feet up it all goes to hell! I did manage to pedal for about 50 meters before I got the wobbels again. Next time! Good news is I can brake hard with no "endos". Bad news is the front wheels wants to reverse itself, turning in on itself when you lean, really bad at low speed, guess when I get my feet up more it will help.

This is with the rear suspension set high, I can drop it down a couple of inches for better aero once I get the hang of it.\

For those that want to know what is holding the seat up. That laminated 2mm gauge bar exteneds into the frame as far as the nut and bolt that are securing the end of it. It is secured inside the frame with epoxy cement and pop rivets (as well as that bolt) .

 

[BobD]

A VERY cool looking build

A VERY cool looking build Jeff....nice job!!

I had the exact same experience on my first attempt riding the V2/K I built. Having ridden DF's and then transitioned to recumbents rather easily, I couldn't believe how unsettling it felt to ride a MBB.

However....keep riding....and do benefit from the riding recommendations offered in the Forum as well as the YouTube videos offered by Kim Tolhurst, Jim Parker and others. Their suggestions make a world of difference.

I'll be going out for my 5th ride today to put some mileage on a rail trail. Highly recommend large parking lots and trails without traffic for awhile. I also discovered as Charles has noted, that once you become comfortable enough to ride with clipless pedals....you'll notice a jump in ease in terms of a smoother pedaling arc.

Your body memories will take over as you increase your time on the bike.....especially as you allow yourself to relax more as you ride.
Enjoy!
Bob

 

[Kim Tolhurst_2]

may I reiterate.....

Hi, open palms, pushing forward, keep your head up =) looking straight at something 50 --100 yards away. AND sing or whistle if you have to. Disengage the brain from body. In my first minutes of riding John T's first MBB I whistled and sang and didn't wobble or weave. but had to give up singing through lack of encouragement!

Merry Christmas and Cruzin New Year.

Kim.

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

Amazing Grace seemed apt

Singing does help (as if you need to attract more attention to yourself riding one of these) We toured from Hillarys to Ocean Reef and back (10K), managing to never ride in a straight line once. She handels like a shopping trolly on pension day but she has damn good legs!

 

[Kim Tolhurst_2]

=)

keep it going, well done, and you will become straight. maybe just humming ok?

K.

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

An Update

Have done 1000K so far but it is not my favourite bike to ride, it is heavy and cumbersome to maneuverer and the handling is scary especially on fast descents, the thing won't turn when you want it to and won't go straight when you have a narrow path. But it is fast! Handles the a sea breeze gusting to 45KPH with relate ease and when I dare a fast powered decent I have easily exceed my 65 KPH limit on the DF racing bike (won't say how fast I went cause someone would kill me)

 

[Andrew 1973]

like a shopping trolly on pension day

"She handles like a shopping trolly on pension day..."

I like this.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi TT,
Have done 1000K so far

Hi TT,

Have done 1000K so far but it is not my favourite bike to ride, it is heavy and cumbersome to maneuverer and the handling is scary especially on fast descents, the thing won't turn when you want it to and won't go straight when you have a narrow path. But it is fast! Handles the a sea breeze gusting to 45KPH with relate ease and when I dare a fast powered decent I have easily exceed my 65 KPH limit on the DF racing bike (won't say how fast I went cause someone would kill me)

Part of this has to do with riding a short wheel base recumbent and part of this is because it is a MBB bicycle. Your mass is now much closer to the front wheel than you are used to for an upright bike. This makes the steering feel twitchy compared to a regular DF or long wheel base recumbent. Being a moving bottom bracket (MBB) bike means that when you are trying to steer, your feet are now entering into the equation.

For new riders, I'll tell them that if they feel like the bike is out of control to take their feet off of the pedals so that the arms can take over. If you have 1,000 km on the bike, then you are probably well past this point. For more experienced riders, I suggest clipping into the pedals. This gave me a lot more control over the bike and I really don't like riding not clipped in.

On my metric century ride last year, there was a humongous hill (that was a real b{#%^ to climb) that had a steep, long good visibility decent. I hit just over 42 mph (68 kph) on this hill (I stopped pedaling at 35 mph) and it felt extremely secure to me. This was a straight decent and wouldn't have like to been slaloming at that speed (or, falling over ), but I was happy how the bike was handling (I've got a Sofrider which is very similar to your bike).

Cheers,
Charles

p.s. I pretty much only ride the Sofrider. If you are switching back and forth between different bikes can make it more difficult to get use to a MBB bike.

 

[Tarmac Terrorist]

Hi Charles, yes I commute

Hi Charles, yes I commute 20KM per day 5 Days a week and I use the CB when ever there are strong head winds (like always). It is find on the straights but I am not confident enough to clipin on it yet, still unsteady until I get up to speed. I clipin on my DFs but the CB is so cumbersome at slow speeds I don't dare. I would say that the conversion kit has gone close to doubleing the weight of the original bike, and a lot of that weight is ahead of the front axel. It is the fast downhill curves that it hates, just does not seem to hold a line throiugh the corner it either turns in to deep or runs wide. It is like the DFs steer themselves and the CB has to be steered and bullied round corners.

I imagine the bikes deisgned by CB are better handlers, with conversions you have a lot of compromises.

68 KPM is good coasting, I have 48t front ring and 180mm cranks (I built it for speed and I am 6ft1in with long legs) so my cadance is only 90 at 70KPH, my peak cadence is 110. She does fly on the down hills!

Yes I switch a lot, It use the one DF for shopping trips and the racing DF for weekend squirts, if it is a sunny day with a gentle breeze I always grab the TREK Madone - I love the bike!

 

[Ian Smith]

It's all about trail and rake.

I note from your installation that you've got the kit bolted through the front hole at the bottom of the forks. Try moving to hole #2 or hole #3. Personally I'd go hole #3 and test her out. My conversion was twitchy, not quite like a Coles trolley, but not far from it. I've gone to hole #3 and things are looking up. I do wobble a bit when I'm tired or after a big Friday night (or the child seat is installed and occupied with a moving 2 yo).

The other thing I did was to mothball my DF for a few months and dedicate my rides to the CB. Be warned, your backside will get used to the seat and will hurt like a bastard on the first rides back on the DF.

Maybe you'll pass by John on one of his rides. He's not far from you.