First ride - New Sofrider

KenM

Member
G'day!
I've just been for my first decent ride on my brand new Sofrider 2.3! :)

I picked it up this morning from Kim Tolhurst in Geelong who is the East Australian distributor He is about 1? hours drive from my home in Melbourne, Australia. He has been really generous with his time and informative about the bikes. I was pretty sure that the Sofrider was what I was after but he let me ride his Silvo and a Quest extensively as well. Both my daughter (19) and I found the Quest a bit less stable than the Sofrider, but it is sure to appeal to many people who are after intense manoeuvrability and/or the folding capacity.

My first ride was just down a hill on back roads to a sealed bike path which I followed to where just before where the really serious hills began and then back by a similar route. You can see the route out at http://www.sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/120363#id=121485 and back again at http://www.sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/120363#id=121492 (its best to open the links in a new tab/window).

However lets step back a bit first; why did I buy a Cruzbike?
Its about a year since I moved back to Melbourne from Launceston, a regional city where I was walking fairly often, as I could get most places in about half an hour on foot. Back in Melbourne that's simply not feasible so at Easter 2009 I bought a Giant Inova hybrid bike and have been riding to work a couple of times a week (16km) and I often do a long afternoon ride of a weekend, usually at least 50km and up to about 120km. I really enjoyed the riding but have a number of problems which the Cruzbike specifically addressed: sore backside, shoulders and wrists, as well as severe pins and needles in my smaller fingers. Even after the long rides my legs seemed to recover very quickly but my backside and neck/shoulders would take days to recover. That must mean that something is not right! Hence when I saw an article about the Cruzbike on Gizmag I got interested and eventually contacted Kim.

Well; my impressions so far.
I feel as though I'm getting used to the bike at an acceptable rate, but I'm aware that I have a long way to go. I still get the wobbles occasionally and am riding quite a bit slower than my normal bike. I'm not sure if its the gears or my inexperience, but I couldn't handle the steep hills as well and had to get off on 3 occasions where I would normally just keep peddling in low gears. I find that I'm still using my arms too much on the hills. I think that with practice the Cruzbike should be good fun and address all the problems I'm having with my standard bike.

I'm not sure if its my technique, a design issue, or an adjustment problem but I found that I was often rubbing the joint in the steering column with the inside of my legs just above my knees. Its not much of a problem on short rides but could get annoying on long rides and eventually wear clothing out quicker. Any suggestions?

Before Kim showed me how to adjust the front stay to the proper length my knees were hitting the handle bars fairly regularly, but I still touch the cables occasionally and would probably feel more comfortable with a bit more space. It looks as though the steering column can be extended; is sit OK to do this?

My greatest difficulty was the gears! I've never ridden twist grip gears before so I'm not really sure what they're meant to be like. I'm even still getting used to which way to twist to change gears up or down. More seriously I find that sometimes one click will do nothing then the next click will jump it 2, or more cogs at a time! :( This was a particular problem as I was just starting to work near the bottom of hills but it also occurred on relatively flat sections as well. Also in the serious list; when riding I can't see which gear the shifter is indicating without leaning out to one side of the bike, which I'm not up to as yet. I can't see a way around this as they are clearly not designed to have the rider's face so close to the handlebars and/or the handlebars angled this way. Also, the chain came of both front and back big cogs. Another annoying issue is that if find that just walking the bike around I often unintentionally click the gear controls and then have the gears jump as I start riding. I suspect that some of it may be resolved with professional adjustment but that will be an expensive, time consuming trip back to Geelong or a paid visit to my local bike shop.

If I had the money it would be really fun to investigate using either Rohloff or NiVinci hub gears with a carbon fibre belt instead of a chain. Interestingly the belt seems a real possibility on these bikes as the “rear” triangle can be opened to get the belt through. I've always found chains the most annoying aspect of bikes.

However the bike itself looks as though its just what I'm after. :D

Sorry for the over-long post but I thought I should get my first impressions out there. I'll keep you updated as I get to know the bike better!

Cheers,
Ken
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Hi Ken,

We love long posts. Always feel free to share your comments and questions, and criticisms too if you have them. The "brain trust" of our readers is here to help you and learn from your experience.

I'd love to see a photo of how you have the bike set up and how you're positioned when sitting on it.

As you become familiar with the bike and the dynamics of moving-bottom-bracket riding, you'll find that your tendency to interact with the frame (legs touching the pivot clamp, etc.) should diminish basically to nothing. The same things that make you feel as if you're using your shoulders too much are probably contributing to the frame interaction too, but with seat time that will disappear; the key is to relax your shoulders.

One of the really strong points about the Sofrider is its adjustability to fit many different riders with lots of variation in the seating position. I'm sure we can tune the steering so the cables clear your knees. I don't recommend raising the stem tube (though of as the steering column) up on the fork steerer; this is where all the upper body energy enters the drive triangle and that needs to be very secure and rigid. In some cases it's possible to route the cables behind the handlebar and get them out of your way. It would help to have a photo to check on that, though.

As for shifting behavior, that too is usually related to cable routing. If the derailleur cable is binding somewhere, for instance if it's being pinched where it goes through the pivot clamp, or a couple of cables are right on top or each other in the clamp, this can cause intermittent cable binding, so sometimes the shifter turns two clicks, and then the bind releases or the tension overcomes it, and the bike shifts twice due to releasing the pent-up cable tension.

You'll find we are very passionate about getting these bikes just right; please let us know what we can do for you.

Best,

Doug
 

KenM

Member
Thanks Doug,
Kim took some pictures/video of me on my first ride last weekend and asked if they could go on the web. Its OK by me so you may see some pop up somewhere on the site, if not, John will probably have access to them shortly.

Its easy to pick up gentle riding on flat ground and I thought that I might have been among the quicker to get used to the cruzbike, but harder riding in diverse situations is obviously going to take longer - it will be interesting to see how long it takes me to feel really comfortable in all situations. I'm not worried about getting there, but I hope I'm allowed to be a little impatient! ;)

My biggest worry is the gears. I'll look closely for any jamming of the cable but I suspect that both derailers need adjustment so that the chain doesn't go beyond the big cog. Is there any chance of instructions and/or photos pointing out the relevant adjustment? The last time I tried to adjust gears I made a big mess of it.

Its over 30 Celsius today so I'll wait until early evening for my next ride.

Cheers,
Ken

PS When are you Americans going to drop the primitive, "Imperial" weights & measures system and come into line with the rest of the world? :p
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Hi Ken,

Derailleur adjustment processes from the Master:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html

Following his instructions in the proper order always seems to work for me.

As for the English/Metric thing, I am fluent in both, but I note my Chinese milling machine is a mix of Imperial and Metric fasteners... And most machine tooling available here is Imperial. So I suspect I'm stuck with a size 7 or 43 in each world...

Best,

Doug
 

KenM

Member
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the link. I'll have to spend some time with it and my bike before my next ride. My low gear on the back is definitely in need of adjustment! The chain came off the big cog twice on today's ride; it really saps confidence! Also I notice that when changing down gears it always jumped from 3rd to 1st and only occasionally went into second when changing back up. Is this an indexing adjustment? When the chain is on the big cog at the front it's derailer starts rubbing when the rear gears get below the 6th gear while I can use gears 1 to 6 without problem on the small front cog. What would I adjust to give a more even range across the front gears? The chain also bounced of the front cog when I went up a 45° sloped gutter at a jogging pace. A bit later I rode down a 90° gutter and was amazed at how smooth it was. The suspension was great!

There were no actual kinks or jams in the cables but some were on the wrong side of the front reflector. I've centred them better but am tempted to look into clipping them gently together to keep them centred. Both cables on the left side (back break & front derailer) seem to be a bit longer and take a noticeably higher arc than those on the right.

However in spite of the chain and derailers, today's ride (http://www.sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/122156) of nearly 22km in 33° (Celsius) heat was more comfortable than yesterday's; much less wobbling as I'm learning to relax a bit more, and if I took great care to change in to the lowest gear before starting a hill I was able to ride up reasonably significant hills. Interestingly, even without cleats, I was able to maintain a smooth peddling action up hills much more easily than I seem to be able to do on my standard bike, which I use with cleats. While the bottom gear seems about right I am beginning to suspect that I may miss a couple of fast gears at the top of the range that I'm used to on my standard bike's 27 speed set-up.

I'll give riding a miss tomorrow as the forecast temperature is 43° Celsius (that's 109.4° Fahrenheit). I'll see if I can get a couple of rides in later in the week after work. I'll wait until I'm more confident on the hills, which will involve sorting the gears, before taking it to work as there are a couple of really challenging hills on that ride. Actually I ride 3.5km to the station in the morning and catch the train to work so I'm not all sweaty, and then ride about 16.5km home in the evenings, almost all on a bike path.

Cheers,
-Ken
 

WhiteSilvio

Well-Known Member
KenM wrote: I'll give riding a miss tomorrow as the forecast temperature is 43° Celsius (that's 109.4° Fahrenheit).
Cheers,
-Ken
Hi Ken,
I'm reckoning that you're in sunny Melbourne.
It's not quite so warm here in Brisbane, but pretty muggy/sticky/humid! (You get the idea.)
Hope you get your gear-changing problems out of the way soon. By the time you finish setting up the gears, and get it right, you'll know for any future problems that may arise! :)
Have fun on the Sofrider, it just keeps getting better. (Well it did on the Silvio, and I can't see why it wouldn't on the Sofrider!)
Regards,
John R.
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Hi Ken,

Overshifting on the bottom cassette cog, where the chain keeps going on the downshift and off the back of the cassette, is usually due to the "L" limit screw being too far out.

http://www.microshift.biz/driver/drivers/Rear%20Derailleur%20(Road).pdf

This is critical to fix right away, if you do nothing else. If this is too loose, the chain can foul in the spokes and damage the wheel and deralleur, and potentially lock up the front wheel. This is never good... and potentially dangerous.

Since getting the limit screws right is the first step, you'll then find the index adjustment needs resetting. The index adjustment cannot be gotten right if the limit screws are wrong.

Let me know what help you need. Your riding is progressing well!

Best,

Doug
 

KenM

Member
Thanks for the link - especially John for the working version. :) I'll get to study it and fiddle with the bike before my next ride. BTW, whats the best way to support the bike while fiddling with the gears? Hanging it by a couple of ropes off the handlebars is the only thing I can think of, but that wouldn't be very stable. Maybe a third rope from the back wheel?

It actually reached 44° here for a good while today! :shock: Thats over 110° in the primitive scale. :p

Cheers,
-Ken
 

joda76

New Member
Ken,
While waiting for delivery of my Sofrider here in snowy and chilly Erie PA, I've been doing a lot of reading..and watching. Although a bit old, here's a nice video site for many adjustments.
http://bicycletutor.com/adjust-rear-derailleur/
Good luck,
John
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Hi Ken,

One easy way to work on the drivetrain is to just turn the bike upside down so it rests on the handlebars and seatback, although it can be a bit awkward to work the gripshifters that way (upside down on a table or workbench is best).

It can be a bit fiddly to hold a Sofrider in some repair stands; I have one of these to work on the Sofrider/Freerider/kit bikes:

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes//Product_10052_10551_1030406_-1___?PID=2187177

I had to tweak the BB holding section a little to get a firm hold, but it works pretty well now.


I'd be happy to see 44 degrees on the primitive scale right now - 10F this morning (-12 modern). Some folks have it way worse than that right now...

Best,

Doug
 

elg

Member
Hi Doug,

Something that caught my eye in the original post, but that got no mention in any followups was this "it would be really fun to investigate using either Rohloff or NiVinci hub gears with a carbon fibre belt instead of a chain. Interestingly the belt seems a real possibility on these bikes as the “rear” triangle can be opened to get the belt through."

An internal geared hub seems to be a popular option for the Sofrider. I don't know the first thing about them, but the belt sounds interesting too. Can you comment on these mods to the Sofrider, and maybe even on the idea of Cruzbike selling such a beast?


Ed
 

JonB

Zen MBB Master
elg wrote: Hi Doug,

Something that caught my eye in the original post, but that got no mention in any followups was this "it would be really fun to investigate using either Rohloff or NiVinci hub gears with a carbon fibre belt instead of a chain. Interestingly the belt seems a real possibility on these bikes as the “rear” triangle can be opened to get the belt through."
I have a rohloff, and have considered a carbon fibre belt. However, i have not seen sprockets for beltdrive for rohloff. They said they might manufacture it in the future. And there is also the question about belt tensioning.
 

KenM

Member
Well I spent a little time with the bike upside down last night then went for a ride.
Thanks for all the instructions. Both Johns' link were great. The video was especially useful!

Riding and stability continue to improve. :)

I moved the low adjustment in a bit and loosened the In B-tension as it seemed to be a long way off the cogs. The result is that I didn't lose the chain off the rear at all, although I may have overdone the Low adjustment a bit as it didn't quite settle into the lowest gear sometimes. The changing seemed slow and on a couple of occasions a change happened a couple of hundred metres after I thought I'd changed. Have I over loosened the B-tension?

Less optimistically, at the front derailer the chain came off the big cog twice and locked up on the small cog once. Any suggestions for the front derailer?

Thankfully, Kim has offered to come to me on Friday evening to work on it. I hope we can get it sorted out finally! In any case I'd like to be better informed as to how the derailers work. I certainly never had anything like this on the Shimano Deore LX set on my conventional Giant hybrid bike.

Cheers,
-Ken
 

KenM

Member
Well I had a further go at adjusting the chain tonight but I fear I have only made it worse. I'm beginning to suspect that adjusting derailers is really an art rather than a science, and I simply don't have it! Thankfully Kim is coming to Melbourne tomorrow and I hope he can make sense of it!

I suspect that any improvement in my technique with the bike is occurring at an unconscious level as I'm too distracted with the strange things the gears are doing or not doing.

Ken
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
KenM wrote: Hi Jon
Rohloff have approved the belt: http://www.rohloff.de/en/news/news_rss/news_in_detail/archive/2009/14/september/article/Gates_Carbon_Drive_with_Rohloff_SPEEDHUB_50014/index.html But at the moment its only available for OEM. If the team at Cruzbike can do it on the existing frame(s) they may make it available to the rest of us.
Cheers,
-Ken
That's very nice of Rohloff to have approved the belt, but I havn't approved the Rohloff. Its noisy, shifts poorly, is not very efficient for a hub and is extremely heavy. it also had a greater gear range than necessary. I never used to think so till we got into our evaluation of the i-motion9 on the Sigma. We mated it with short cranks and it is as sweet as sweet, for commuting or fully laden touring.
 

elg

Member
John said "our evaluation of the i-motion9 on the Sigma. We mated it with short cranks and it is as sweet as sweet".

Sweet indeed. Any hope of that setup for the Sofrider?
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
elg wrote: John said "our evaluation of the i-motion9 on the Sigma. We mated it with short cranks and it is as sweet as sweet".

Sweet indeed. Any hope of that setup for the Sofrider?

As a special sofrider bike, no chance. As a boom fitted with a tandem BB shell to provide chain tension adjustment, yes a good chance.

However what I prefer is an 11-34 9 speed cluster on a 155 crank with 44 teeth. That's what I set up for my own sofrider and for my wife - forget the FD its just a pain and if you select very carefull the number of teeth on the front chainring you probably won't need it. 11-34 is 305% which is WIDER than the shimano nexus 8 and not a lot shy of the 340% of the imotion. Life can be simple. ;)
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
what would be cool is a capreo freewheel and hub that allows a 9 tooth small ring, and build (dreaming here) a 10 speed system with a 9 - 32 cluster. But probably the very thin 9 tooth sproket would risk sheer since only around 4 teeth are engaged at any time. Have to use titanium! Also the efficiency is not that great with very few teeth on the cluster, so maybe 10-34, which is 340%
 

WhiteSilvio

Well-Known Member
John Tolhurst wrote: what would be cool is a capreo freewheel and hub that allows a 9 tooth small ring, and build (dreaming here) a 10 speed system with a 9 - 32 cluster. But probably the very thin 9 tooth sproket would risk sheer since only around 4 teeth are engaged at any time. Have to use titanium! Also the efficiency is not that great with very few teeth on the cluster, so maybe 10-34, which is 340%
Hi John,
Shimano do an 11-28 cassette. Would that work? (9 teeth would surely be close to the limits of "physical space" around the bearing and axle. Does someone make a 9 tooth sprocket?)
John R
 
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