First several rides on a Q with thoughts of ultra racing dancing through my head

[Eric Winn]

I was chatting with Jim and John about possible delivery dates for my VHF (Vendetta HydroForm) with the thought of training to ride in the Feb 16, 2013 Bike Sebring 12 hour race.

My most optimistic guesstimate of delivery timing would result in something less than 8 weeks to train. John confirmed I was probably too optimistic so Jim proposed a loaner offer for a Quest to learn to ride and train on until I get my VHF and get it put together after which I can return the Q. Cruzbike is a marvelous company!

Maria shipped the Q to me on Mon, 11/19 and it arrived on Wed, 11/21. I did about 98% of the assembly on Wednesday and finished up the remainder along with adjusting the disc brakes, the IGH, and derailleur after putting the turkey in the oven on Thanksgiving morning, 11/22. Note that I triple checked all of the fasteners at this point...

This year was a small Thanksgiving get together for lunch instead of dinner and since we got a freaky weather pop to 60+F I started my first riding sessions on a Cruzbike Quest in the early afternoon.

Disclaimer - I had spent about 30-45 minutes off and on test riding a used Silvio, that I ended up not buying, at the end of August so this was technically my second Cruzbike experience.

I started off by letting my son sit and roll on the bike and steer a bit but he wasn't ready to try peddling yet so I hopped on and started some slow riding to get a feel for the Q compared to the Silvio. I made a few short runs and some mild turns and then was doing a sharper right turn in the cul-de-sac in front of my house.

At this point, I turned the handlebars left to straighten from the right turn but the front wheel kept turning right even though the handlebars did indeed turn left. I came to an abrupt and inelegant stop. Remember it was warm (for Michigan in November) so I had been wearing shorts. I ended up with a bit of road rash on my right knee and the Q received a scuffed right pedal and a scrape on the edge of the Q-ring guard - sorry Jim.

Of course it was the knee with the old surgical repair from my gymnastics days back in the late 70s. You can see my scar under the main scrape.

Since the knee injury was very minor and was only oozing a bit of red I tightened up the "claw hammer" double QR clampset at the base of the stem even more and had my son help hold the bike while I tried to brute force it to slip again. Note to new Q owners - tighten this beastie a bunch!

Since it was now most definitely solidly holding I even more gingerly started riding a bit, stopping, starting, doing very easy turns until my confidence returned.

I rode down the street, turned around and came back to loop around the cul-de-sac and into my driveway. My son captured it with his iPhone - blurry but fun:

I grabbed my bike helmet and a jacket to go ride around the neighborhood practicing starting, stopping, hill climbing, etc. We have a hill that ranges from about a 6% grade to almost 11% depending on where you measure it so I tried that. My first attempt got me about 8/10ths of the way to the top when I ended up over thinking and looking at the pedals and ground right near the front wheel too much and I started oscillating from one side of the road to the other getting slower and slower and not making much forward progress when I finally had to stop and put a foot down. I went back down and tried a second time and tried to look more at the horizon and keep a steady cadence and made it to the top on the second try.

I came back to my house and realized I should be recording with Cyclemeter so I captured my first mini-route ride of about 4 miles. I made it up the hill again and even hit just over 30 mph (48 kph) on one stretch - where I remembered to change the IGH from 2nd to 3rd

I think I've got more speed in me on this bike as I was still experiencing wide oscillations across the width of the road when I tried to pedal with more power at higher speeds. I also feel a lot more flexing on the Q from the suspension and perhaps the folding joint than the Silvio. I like the SIlvio better than the Q and ended up buying a V but this Q is a really sweet little machine although more of a Cruzer than a racehorse...

Here is my RWGPS data for 11/22:

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1028068

The weather got cold and gloomy on Friday but warmed a bit on Saturday, 11/24 and was looking to be a bit warmer still on Sunday.

However, on Sunday morning, 11/25, I woke up to the first snow of the winter. Everything had a light cover of snow, including the streets and it was pretty overcast. Fortunately it got a bit brighter and the snow melted leaving the streets mostly wet but dry in a few places so I did 6 separate practice loops of the same ride I did on 11/22 but slower because of the cold and wet conditions and being a Cruzbike newbie.

I had moved my Wahoo Blue SC from my Diamondback to the Q and wore my Wahoo Blue HR so these rides have speed, cadence, heart rate, etc with them. I did a 7th cool down ride that was longer and worked at practicing stops, starts, slow speed riding etc. but didn't capture that ride data.

11/25 RWGPS 6 practice runs:

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032575
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032576
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032577
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032578
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032579
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1032583

After these runs, I'm able to hold a straight track with a lot more control and I'm back to very light pressure on the handlebars most of the time. With the 7th run that I didn't record included, I have ridden a bit over 30 miles on the Q for 11/25 and probably about 36 total at this point.

We are back on a warming trend with the next several days through the weekend and into next week looking to be dry, bright, and warm(er) so I hope to get in some longer distances and have more to report.

BTW, if anyone is interested I took a lot of pictures of the Q unpack and setup. I'll try and do a separate Q unpack and assemble post later.

-Eric

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Eric,
Very nicely done!  I

Hi Eric,

Very nicely done! I like the video (event the smart@$$ comments from the camera man). You are really zipping along for somebody who basically just hopped on one of these.

One comment from people who first ride a Silvio and then a V is that the Vendetta angle is quite a bit different. The Quest, I believe, can get a much lower angle than either the Silvio or than what one could (easily) get on a Sofrider. When you are getting closer to getting your Vendetta, try to start lowering the seat angle on the Quest to get yourself ready.

My standard two pieces of contradictory advice:

(1) When you are starting out, if you feel like you're losing control, take your feet off of the pedals.
(2) When you've stopped needing to do (1), clip in. It really helps control and feels a lot more natural.

And kudos to Cruzbike for the loaner. Not everybody would have done that.

Cheers,
Charles

 

[Eric Winn]

Charles,
My son (the camera

Charles,

My son (the camera man) laughed at your comment

Here are my next two rides (17.91 mph and 16.17 mph average speed a big improvement over my Diamondback!).

Check out the new Cyclemeter online display using the links below. This is a new feature that just came out Dec 3, 2012. I've attached a screen capture further below but you can click the links to see the "live" version.

A quick run to my LBS to get a bottle rack and fasteners to mount on the seat back:

Route: LBS Run
Activity: Cycle
Ride Link: http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121201-1403?r=x
Started: Dec 1, 2012, 2:03:11 PM
Ride Time: 21:03
Stopped Time: 34:45
Distance: 6.28 miles
Average Speed: 17.91 mph
Fastest Speed: 29.16 mph
Ascent: 33 feet
Descent: 67 feet
Calories: 273
Average Cadence: 0 rpm
Maximum Cadence: 0 rpm
Average Power: 0 watts
Maximum Power: 0 watts
Adjusted Power: 0 watts
Power Intensity: 0.000
Power Score: 0
Peak Power (0:20): 0 watts
Peak Power (1:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (5:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (20:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (1:00:00): 0 watts
Bike: 2012 Cruzbike Quest
Notes: Rode over to Hometown Bicycles to fit a water bottle rack to the seat back.

Just put one one the left side for now as clearing the seat clamp is a little tricky.


And a 20+ mile ride a bit later in the day:

Route: Island Lake Out And Back
Activity: Cycle
Ride Link: http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121201-1508?r=x
Started: Dec 1, 2012, 3:08:55 PM
Ride Time: 1:24:24
Stopped Time: 4:24
Distance: 22.74 miles
Average Speed: 16.17 mph
Fastest Speed: 31.67 mph
Ascent: 448 feet
Descent: 460 feet
Calories: 1624
Average Heart Rate: 173 bpm
Maximum Heart Rate: 182 bpm
Average Cadence: 0 rpm
Maximum Cadence: 0 rpm
Average Power: 0 watts
Maximum Power: 0 watts
Adjusted Power: 0 watts
Power Intensity: 0.000
Power Score: 0
Peak Power (0:20): 0 watts
Peak Power (1:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (5:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (20:00): 0 watts
Peak Power (1:00:00): 0 watts
Bike: 2012 Cruzbike Quest
Notes: First ride on the Cruzbike Quest on my Island Lake 21+ mile out and back route. Averaged 16+ mph instead of the 13-14mph I usually do on my Diamondback.

I put a saddlebag under the rear rack. Apparently that is too far away or too much interference for the SC sensor as I didn't get any cadence data. Found the magnet had moved down the crank arm so I will check on the next ride to see if that was the problem instead.

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Riding in the cold with my balaclava...

I rode the 22.5 mile route again yesterday (Dec 5) in colder weather with my balaclava on under my helmet with the helmet strapped under my chin snuggly over the neck of the balaclava. I also had on a cold weather underarmour base, long lycra bottoms, long sleeve lycra jersey, and one of those eye searing riding windbreakers zipped all the way up under my chin. Temperature was around 36F with 12mph wind. Felt comfortable except my toes got cold - currently still riding in running shoes with mesh uppers.

I'm finding I have to concentrate a bit to stop pulling back hard on the handlebars when climbing and remember to relax my arms and tell myself to put my back into it . E.g. I find I climb easier and faster when I allow my pedaling to push me against the seatback and use the pressure between pedals and my back to ride up hills. On the 8%-11% grades this results in what Charles Plager and others call bridging but in this case I'm not conciously trying to bridge but I noticed that I had very little to no pressure on my bum when hitting the really steep hills - all the pressure was on the pedals and just at and under my shoulders on the seat back. After I forced myself to relax my death-grip on the handlebars that is.

At the end of the ride I felt some stiffness and achiness in my neck and a little bit in my shoulders but I'm pretty sure this was due to cinching the helmet strap and riding jacket too snugly over my balaclava. During the ride, I kept pulling at it to try and loosen it but noticed I was straining a bit pulling my head upright against the tug of the balaclava under my chin. I didn't experience this when I rode this same route without the balaclava on Dec 1st or when I was wearing it on the six 4-mile runs I did on Nov 25. Those other times it was looser around the base of my neck. Going forward I'll need to make sure it isn't too snug on cold weather rides.

I also switched from using an eyeglass-mounted third eye rearview mirror to a Zefal Spy Mirror. Despite some of the whining on BROL about this mirror, I thought it was great but I should have gotten two, one for each side.

I think I've gotten this next bit applicable to both left-hand and right-hand drive countries

With a mirror on both sides, you can use the curb-side mirror when turning onto a multi-lane roadway to keep an eye on any fast gaining traffic as you merge across multiple lanes over to the outside (curb-side) lane and then switch back to primarily using the center-line side mirror.

Below are links to my ride data from 12/5. I rode a quick 4 mile route to check if my cadence sensor was working correctly and confirmed it does connect just fine to my iPhone in a bag behind the Quest seat. It had failed to work earlier due to the magnet getting pushed too far down the pedal crank arm. About 26.5 miles for the day and a bit over 83 miles total accumulated on the Quest so far.

For some reason, RWGPS yields different results from the data collected by Cyclemeter. Anybody else noticed this? The data includes GPS and speed sensor data so I would expect the results to parse out pretty darn close but there is quite a bit of variance between the two. Cyclemeter generally shows me going farther and faster than RWGPS. I need to dig through the raw data and see if there is an obvious explanation as well as asking the two companies about it.

http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121205-1432?r=e
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1043531

http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121205-1452?r=e
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1042717

I did try the Quest on my rollers a few days earlier - yikes! I can manage for a few seconds and then tend to pop off of them. When this happens on my DF it is pretty easy to catch myself and not fall over but much harder with the Quest. I stacked some large rectangular plastic bins full of clothing or linens (soft!) near my side and caught myself on them a few times so I would end up leaning against them instead of falling over and bashing up myself or the bike...

My current rollers are flat rather than concave so that makes it a bit harder. I'll keep trying and see if I can conquer them. It feels like it can be achieved but will take longer to get up to speed compared to my DF bike.

I've thought about getting the Tacx Galaxia swing roller which does have concave rollers along with the swing buffering but I'm also looking at the soon-to-be released Wahoo KICKR for winter training on my Vendetta. I don't want to start collecting trainers and that darn KICKR is more expensive than I was hoping it would be so I'll have to ponder on my trainer decisions...

-Eric

 

[kidneyboy]

 Eric,
 Really nice ride

Eric,
Really nice ride report(s). I agree with Charles on working on seat recline as you get more comfortable. That neck and shoulder pain should go away when the death grip goes away. What really helped me was opening up my hands while riding, even (or especially) uphill. I think this helps smooth out your pedal stroke and teaches your body to relax.
Switch to clipless asap. Practise clipping out and back in on the trainer about a zillion times so you don't have to think about it. From the short clip and your speeds you look pretty confident already.

 

[Eric Winn]

Commented photos

Thanks Chuck,

I've gotten pretty good at riding loose-handed most of the time but I still tend to clamp down going up the steeper hills and have to make an effort to stop doing that. On the little small hills I tend to stay loose.

I'm also pretty sure the neck and shoulder discomfort was due to the constant pulling against my chin of the balaclava as I hadn't felt it in the prior 60+ miles on the Quest.

Yeah, I agree about the clipless. I have a set of pedals but need to go find some shoes. I'd prefer to get sandals but since it is winter I'm going to look for some good MTB shoes that look more suited to winter riding and wait until it warms back up a bit for the sandals. Or maybe I'll get both and wear the sandals when I'm training inside.

I'll also have to figure out another way to practice with the clipless as I don't have a trainer (yet), just rollers and since the Quest doesn't use a QR on the front wheel because of the dual-drive, it won't work with most trainers.

Left side:

Right Side:

Zefal Spy Mirror:

H20 Bottle Rack and Pump:

Old Saddle Bag inside rack frame:

Scooter Mitts - Thanks to Charles Plager for suggesting them! I have not tried them yet but will provide feedback when I do:

Scooter Mitt around Zefal Spy Mirror (and with my hand on the handlebar):

 

[Eric Winn]

Current Quest seat angle is about 40 degrees

Here is my current seat angle. Eyeballing my protractor shows it to be about 40 degrees. Cat jungle gym in the background used to prop the bike to vertical

-Eric

 

[John Tolhurst]

Hi Eric, 
I think you can get

Hi Eric,
I think you can get the same back angle with the seat post inserted lower down?

 

[Eric Winn]

Hi John,
The seat angle is

Hi John,

The seat angle is what seemed to just fit naturally when I first assembled the Q and I haven't tried to change it yet. Do I have the seat post too far out from the frame tube?

-Eric

 

[John Tolhurst]

Yes, maybe, I like to see a

Yes, maybe, I like to see a good amount still in the seat tube.

 

[Eric Winn]

Seat Post Insertion Point and Relocated Seat Brackets

OK, I loosened everything up and moved the seat post insertion point around to see what the seat and rack did - that is one neat design. Kudos John!

Anyway, I ran the seatpost down such that the bottom of the post is within 32mm of the bottom aft end of the frame seat post receiver tube, e.g. it is almost fully inserted.

I also relocated the seat bracket mount point to the top holes. After this the seat still seems to be about 40 degrees.

Seat post inserted almost fully into frame tube:

Seat bracket mount point moved to top set of holes:

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Bar mitts work great

http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121209-1136?r=e

I managed one of my short hill routes before more rain came through. Temperature was 35F with 11 mph winds. I was getting some pretty strong, cold wind coming from across the lake as I was riding around the western edge!

Thankfully, I had decided to try the bar mitts I had ordered based on Charles Plager's post here. These things really do work great! I think I could have almost skipped wearing gloves altogether as my hands felt really warm with the light weight gloves I had on inside the mitts. After the ride my gloves were damp from sweat so I was definitely toasty inside the mitts.

The left mitt has a tendency to make the Zefal Spy mirror rotate around the handlebar a bit but I found that when I pulled my hand out to flex a bit and put it back I could move my arm a bit to rotate the mirror back from where it was moved and with my arm back in the normal riding position would then pretty much stay put.

This short route includes about a mile with two climbs at an 8% or higher grade with a short dip between the climbs. The first set of graph bars below is comparing the first time riding this segment on the Q and the first time I rode it on my DF. The top bar is the Quest and the bottom is my DF.

As of today I have tracked riding this segment 15 times. This first Q attempt is currently ranked number 11 out of 15 and my first DF attempt is ranked 15th. In the two sets of comparisons below, the 18.9mph I hit on the Q is on the little dip between the two hills. Further along the ride I hit 37.46 mph going down this long hill on the other side of my climb. Dan, if you are reading this - this stretch of downhill is a clear, relatively straight, wide section of park road with no sharp turns and really good road so I like to enjoy cruzing down it If I were most anywhere else I would be more prudent... When I ride this in reverse, going uphill, I'm much slower!

My huffing and puffing up the first part of the hill climb on the Q fogged up my riding glasses pretty bad and I was having trouble seeing. I'm not sure if this slowed me down more or not. This is also the steepst part. You can see on the second part of the climb (at the 4th split) I was at 10.4 mph on the Q - not much slower than the 10.9 mph for my best overall DF segment time although I did hit 12.2mph on that same split on another ride that is currently ranked 3rd overall but where I was slower on the first 2 splits....

First time riding the Q on this hill segment (top bar) compared to first time I rode it on my DF (bottom bar):

This next one is a comparison of my current best time (DF) and today's ride on the Q. This is fun to watch on Ride with GPS because I can replay the two rides (or more depending on how many I am comparing) and a different colored circle moves across the map based on the recorded timing data. By watching where one or the other pulls ahead or lags you can concentrate on the sections that give you trouble to learn how to improve your performance.

Best ride time on this hill segment (top bar - DF) compared to first attempt with the Q (bottom bar):

Here is the view from the top of High Ridge Drive that I recorded on a previous ride on Oct 27. This is at the end of the 4th split in the timing graphs above. You can here me huffing and puffing a bit in the audio...:

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Did an easy ride today since

Did an easy ride today since I caught a cold 2 days ago but was feeling better today and it got up into the upper 40s and I wanted to take advantage of it. Oddly, one of my faster rides for me (15.42mph or 24.82kph), maybe I should ease up more often:

My numbers are referenced from the Cyclemeter data. I think it is more accurate since I have an SC sensor. I believe RWGPS just uses the GPS data. That is my story and I'm sticking to it...

http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121214-1455?r=e

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/1053218


While riding I tried to observer, contemplate, experiment with uphill technique applying more power by incorporating more upper body. In looking at my historical ride data for one of the uphill segments, I rode up it slightly faster than my fastest DF time.

As Kim mentioned in another thread, I tried to pull more with my arms while mashing more than spinning with my legs. I think it was pull left while pushing left and pull right while pushing right with very little rocking but it felt like I was accelerating more uphill when I did this. I'll have to stop after my next hill climb and jot some notes immediately to try and better capture how to articulate this.

Subjectively it felt like I was applying more power on the Q than before. I also noticed that when I seemed to be getting something similar to the DF out of the saddle rocking kind of feeling I was maintaining a straight line but I could also feel the Q doing a bit of a pogo between the front and rear suspension during this power manuever. Slightly distracting and perhaps bleeding some power?

Had a lot of fun today. Felt good to get on the bike and try and ride off the last of the cold (hopefully). Temperature was mild again, around 47F and sunny. Rode without the bar mitts!

-Eric

 

[psychling]

Eric ...
The rubber strap for

Eric ...

The rubber strap for the Zefal spy mirror doesn't grip the HB well enough. I wrap two cable ties around each mirror (I have one on each side), tighten them well and cut off the extra. I also use a file to `smooth off' the sharp edges of the cut cable ties.

Similar to your description of hitting the late 30's on a clean, straight descent I pushed 48.7 last year on a descent with the Silvio. I attribute that to a) the lack of crosswinds, b) the steep grade (8%), c) ballast ... I was 40 lbs heavier. I don't do that anymore *on ANY of my bikes) bc the thrill is not worth the risk. Age and experience (scars, broken bones, cracked helmets, shredded shorts and jerseys) can sometimes make life boringly safe.

 

[psychling]

Eric ...
"While riding I

Eric ...

"While riding I tried to observer, contemplate, experiment with uphill technique applying more power by incorporating more upper body. In looking at my historical ride data for one of the uphill segments, I rode up it slightly faster than my fastest DF time.

As Kim mentioned in another thread, I tried to pull more with my arms while mashing more than spinning with my legs. I think it was pull left while pushing left and pull right while pushing right with very little rocking but it felt like I was accelerating more uphill when I did this. "

My experience in the mountains these past 18 months has taught me that climbing is simple: lose weight, do a lot of climbing, build muscle and cadiopulmonary capacity, don't wrestle the handlebars. 'T'sall it takes

 

[Eric Winn]

Climbing a hill with a loose Zefal

Hi Dan,

I was thinking of cutting a strip of rubber out of an old inner tube and wrapping that around the handlebar first and then putting the Zefal over that to see how that worked. For now, the mirror stays in place pretty well when the bar mitts are not on it and with it a bit loose now I've also been tweaking the position a bit to see where it works best. I had to adjust it a bit on this last ride because the collar of my jacket was sticking out and blocking part of my view. Since it was warmer than it had been I had my jacket and jersey unzipped a lot to keep from overheating - the Under Armour ColdGear base level I had on was working a bit too well.

As for hill climbing, I was channeling my inner Dan <grin>. I was trying to think from the neck down and get a feel for how the bike reacts in different scenarios along with getting better at becoming one with the bike. I also don't have miles and miles of hills like you do so I thought experimenting with going faster up my little short hills might be a viable training option - sort of like uphill intervals. My Island Lake out and back has some rollers spaced in a way that I want to try and start working them as uphill intervals, rest downhill, etc. At least as much as winter weather will permit. Some day, I'd like to try riding around your stomping grounds, but as you advise I'd prefer to loose some more weight first and get more fit.

Did you ever notice the Silvio doing a pogo on strong uphill pedaling? I think the Q's suspension could benefit from being a bit stiffer...

-Eric

 

[psychling]

"Did you ever notice the

"Did you ever notice the Silvio doing a pogo on strong uphill pedaling? I think the Q's suspension could benefit from being a bit stiffer..."


Nope.

 

[billyk]

The Quest shock is easily adjustable

@Eric Winn - The Quest shock is easily adjustable. Just turn the barrel. The instructions are useless (which way is clockwise?), but it is easy to tell by sitting on the seat and bouncing. There is quite a bit of adjustment: from very stiff to plushy.

 

[Eric Winn]

Did an hour on the Q on

Did an hour on the Q on rollers today. Popped off quite a bit but I seem to be improving. This was my first real attempt to ride the Q on rollers and it turned out better than I expected ( else I wouldn't have persevered for an hour... grin... Not to mention the 9" of snow outside that I spent 2 hours moving from one place to another this morning )

Note: I bumped my SC sensor again and cadence wasn't picked up for the first half of the ride.
http://cyclemeter.com/a410b492c9780ff7/Cycle-20121227-1543?r=e

I tried orienting the Q with the front wheel on the single roller and the rear on the two rollers like you would on a DF but besides being harder to keep straight, the drive wheel on the front single roller seemed to want to power me off the rollers more so I flipped it the other way around with the front wheel on the two close-set rollers.

This resulted in a more solid sense when riding a straight track but made it a bit quirkier to recover when I went off track - probably because of the two contact patches on two rollers.

I do think my success today was due in large part to racking up about 120 road miles concentrating on learning how to ride in a straight line comfortably without wandering all over.

Q oriented backwards from the normal DF position:

Note two contact patches on turning wheel (which is also the drive wheel).

@billyk - yeah, I'm fine with the rear shock - it feels about right, but the front shock seems a bit too soft. I don't feel it bottoming out or anything and the amount of travel seems to match John's spec but it moves more than I like. I prefer more firmness and less float and/or less cushy so I can feel the road surface better.

-Eric

 

[Eric Winn]

Quest on rollers video

I was chatting with Maria today and mentioned I managed to ride an hour on my rollers yesterday and she suggested a video so here is a short one:

-Eric