Going ultra on the S40?

[Alex]

Hi Cruzbikers! I would like to hear from you, especially from the ones who have taken their bikes on long rides: Is an S40 suitable for long, hilly or mountainous brevet and ultra rides? Can it keep up with upright road bikes? Is it as much fun to tackle long climbs on an S40 as it is on a carbon road bike?

For a little context: I have always been fascinated by the idea of covering long distances by bike. However, I cannot exceed around 300 km on an upright road bike because of back pain. After years of experiments, I am tired of trying to make the upright road bike work for me. Maybe I could break the 300 km barrier on an S40?

About a year ago, I had the chance to go for a couple of test rides on the S40. I liked the relaxed riding position, but I felt like I had lost all power. Also, I could barely climb a 300 ft hill. Climbing did not feel great, either: On steeper inclines, I had the feeling of lying head down, blood rushing to my head, while my feet were pedaling skyward.

Still, the concept of the Cruzbike is fascinating, so I would like to understand if the theoretical cons are outweighed by the pros. By the way, here are is my pro-con list:

Pro	Con
Aerodynamics	Climbing: high weight, inability to stand up, loss of traction on steep inclines
Comfort	Ability to handle rough roads: inability to stand up over bumps, instability on gravel
	Power output: seems to be lower in the recumbent position, even for adapted riders
	Visibility: lower point of view for the rider, lower profile for other road users
	Higher risk of sunburn

 

[Damien]

Long story short: Yes! Check out this topics: Cruzbike Adventures (Solo, Randonneur, Social)
I’ve posted a few threads about brevets, mostly featuring YouTube videos. There are also a few other folks here besides me who do them as well.

 

[Robert Holler]

Many of your cons are actually more pros:

Climbing - once acclimated this is not really an issue. Possibly a bit "slower" than many uprights but 100 times more comfortable. On equal climbs in my years of training, I arrive at the top of the hill 10 mins or so later on my Cruzbike than I would have on my older uprights, but I arrive way more relaxed. And I am never racing, so... YMMV. As for the loss of traction - yes that can happen. When that's happened to me, I was already on an incline that I would have been walking up with a RWD recumbent, and probably walking up with an upright as well - becasue I can walk faster at that point.

Rough roads - the new reality of USA cycling I guess but I run wider tires and lower pressure. Gravel is not really an issue with the right tires and setup and practice. As for hitting rough stuff I would always choose to have the rough ride while reclined than having to sit on an upright saddle, and you can only stand for so long anyway.

Power output - MOST riders are low power output in general, so better to ride a bike that makes the most efficient use of that power and that is a Cruzbike. You simply do not need the same watts to go the same speeds. When you can clip along in the 20MPH range with the fewest watts possible that is not a con for sure. I like to call it the "reward for effort ratio." Recently Matthew Lefthand broke 9 world records in 12 hours on a V20C - the results are in. If I can go 25mph with 120 watts why would I want to ride something that took me 200 watts to go the same speed, no matter what bike it is?

Visibility - Is 1000x better on a Cruzbike than an upright. One the S40 you are sitting with a commanding view of the road. Drivers see you more because you stand out.

Higher risk of sunburn - if properly covered this isn't really an issue no matter what you are doing outside IMHO.

The main thing on changing over to a Cruzbike is acclimating and training - the power and skills don't directly swap over from decades of upright riding - there is a good season or two of real training to get back to the same level (in my experience.)

 

[chicorider]

I'm starting my 10th year riding a V20, now V20c. At 5'3" and 130 pounds, climbing has always been my strength. I am maybe a tiny bit faster climbing on my Specialized Aethos, but I can climb a lot longer, with less fatigue on the V, making it perhaps the faster/better climber for long, sustained efforts. The V is much faster on downhills, and eats rollers for lunch, so even if you're a little slower on a climb, you'll likely get that time back, plus more everywhere else. It is true that you cannot stand on a Cruzbike, but the mbb design allows you to leverage your upper body against your lower body for bigger efforts and bursts of speed, which is a lot like standing and stomping on a DF bike. The other reason to stand on a DF bike is to give your butt a short break, but on a CB there is no such discomfort, so not being able to stand is moot.

I have done five double centuries (322km) on the V, some with more than 3000 meters of climbing, with rolling times around 10 hours, and 11-ish hours total time, all in total comfort, other than fatigued legs. Those are rides I would not have done on a DF bike, and hats off to you for taking them on.

But none of this came right away. The learning is real, and can be steep for some, and I took me a while to get my "bent legs," partly because I was trying to master the technique while building the specific fitness to make these bikes fly.

The V does not handle gravel or really rough roads super well; an S40 with larger tires would be a better choice there. Like the V, the S40 should be able to cover similar long distances, though at a slightly slower speeds because of the mildly increased wind resistance. When I had an S40, it kept up with DF bikes easily, and put my head up at a higher, more conversational level. It's the better bike for group rides. It is also more adaptable and rack-ready. The V is a fairly dedicated speed machine; the S is more of a chameleon, depending on how you set it up.

As for sunburn, I avoid that by wearing cooling arm sleeves and apply sunscreen to my legs and face. I also use a helmet visor to shade much of my face and eyes. I hope some of this helps.

 

[cpml123]

I wear Pearl Izumi sun arms and sun legs to avoid applying sun screen to those areas.

 

[Frito Bandito]

As cyclists, it is easy for us to want more this or that out of our bikes. I was fascinated with TT bikes for their efficiency and speed, but when comfort became a limiting factor in how long I could enjoy that speed I didnt really have an option except to get a recumbent. The 1st one that became available nearby was a V20, and after seeing a few vids on Youtube of riders zipping by smoothly I figured "If they can do it, so can I." I ignored the naysayers with a bit of "Adapt, Improvise and Overcome" and now with over 40K km on my V20 I am glad to say that I am more than happy with my choice. If touring was my thing I'd have no worries at all in using my V20 set up as it is in my profile pic, but I could easily add quit a bit more storage space if needed at very little aero penalty with a pair of top tube bags installed under the seat, and an even larger tailbag. The S40 is a very capable tourer that I would choose over any upright bike.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

I used to do audax/randonuer rides regularly on an DF bike. I also used to be a bit of a serial Everester. Sadly chronic health problems stopped all that and I ended up on an S40 for the comfort. But I have recently got into PRT so may well be back to longer rides.
From my experience I would prefer to take the S40 on a long ride than a DF bike. The only time I would ride a DF bike now is on rides with proper steep hills. I am a natural stander (or a crap Contador) on a DF bike so am definitely slower up the hills on the S40 but I dont care about speed. Unlike most others I am slower downhill on it but I did tend to "give it some" on the descents and after almost 50 years riding nearly every type of DF bike was pretty confident, despite the odd scary moment. I take it relatively easy on the S40 but still manage to keep up with quicker descenders.
I use 38mm tyres (tubed as I'm sensible ) for comfort and on the rough little roads in Ireland they seem no slower and stop a lot of vibration. Obviously living in Ireland sunburn is not much of a problem, lol.
There is definitely a learning curve and getting your "bent legs" as they say but for comfort over a long distance I'd choose my S40 over my lovely Ti Reilly I used to audax on and probably go the same speed if I was at the same riding level as I was. Hopefully one day I can try again.
So an ideal machine for the job IMO.

 

[RojoRacing]

bikes are bikes, they have a crank and two wheels, so an S40 or V20 is going to climb just as well as any other bike of the same weight. I'll stick by my saying that if you think you or your bike will suck at climbing, then I guarantee it will, but not for physics reasons. I will say rough roads suck, but honestly, when the road is rough enough that I don't want to ride it on my V20, I don't want to ride it on my DF either. Traction is only an issue above sustained 15%, which is rare since most 15% sections are short and you have momentum to work with. I'll never agree with the power output difference thing since my power output is the same on my DF road, V20, and MTB. I have road rids from years ago that I still can't figure out which bike it was on, because I suck at labeling the rides. Visibility can be less if you don't have your head set up correctly, so less a bike limitation, and more of a choice in how you set up your bike. Sunburn overall ain't much differance but I will say I won't ride my V20 without a helmet with a built-in tinted shield, and I wear sunglasses underneath, because half the time the sun is directly in your eyes.

My rides are all exclusively mountainous, and the V20 is my choice most of the time because it's a great bike and comfortable for as long as I want to ride. There's just no real reason for me to choose another bike over it besides just changing things up. I did a bunch of 200 mile event / races years ago on the V20, and I only picked the mountain events because they have the more fun descents. Here's a ride I did 2 days ago, which is just one of our regular weekly routes. https://www.strava.com/activities/17222807853

 

[Alex]

Thank you everybody for your incredibly detailed and thoughtful responses! After having read a ton on this forum, this was my first post, and I am amazed by all the great feedback and the obvious fascination for the Cruzbike concept.

Interestingly, many long-distance aficionados seem to zip around on the V20, not on the S40. I would have thought the more upright seat angle of the S40 is more suitable for mountainous courses, riding in traffic, questionable surfaces, and group rides. Should I think twice which Cruzbike model I am eyeing?

I was concerned about climbing fun (I love to power up hills standing like @Boreen bimbler), but while it sounds like the consensus is that Cruzbikes are slower uphill, nobody complains about riding uphill being less fun, just more relaxed, which is encouraging. Also, the sensation of pressure building up in the head I experienced on my test rides does not seem to be a concern, so maybe it was just missing adaptation?

@Damien: I followed your transition from upright brevet rider to Cruzbiker and watched some of your cool footage. How does it feel having made the switch? Have your riding preferences changed? Has your body changed?

@RojoRacing: Awesome, I really hope I can get to the point where my casual weekly route has more than 10,000+ ft elevation gain! Regarding power output on different platforms: While mindset is certainly a factor, I would guess that body position affects power output. Imagine a hypothetical bike that you pedal upside-down - I am sure the human body would not perform well in this unusual position. And the Cruzbike is almost halfway between an upright bike and an upside-down bike.

 

[RojoRacing]

I think the reason to see more extreme distance examples on the V20 vs the S40 is that someone looking to ride 200 miles isn't generally a casual cyclist. 200-mile riders tend to have a higher passion for their sport and more specifically their performance,e so they tend to gravitate toward the bike marketed as the highest performing. I'm sure if I rode the S40 on my same route, the difference in overall time would be less than a bathroom break so it simply comes down to personal preference. I would warn that ergonomics and your willingness to go beyond the average consumer are required to get the V20 to perform some of the key points you say you're looking for as a mountainous capable bike. I personally can't ride the V20 in the mountains with the stock flat seat and headrest, I can't see anything, and it's not comfortable. They tell me the upgraded adjustable seat makes a big difference, but that option didn't exist back in the day, so I mount Thor seats to my V20 to make them more mountain freindly. I think if you're not a tinkerer then you'll have better luck getting what you want from a completely stock S40 vs the V20.

Here are some simple questions I'd ask someone before recomending a either bike.
Are you looking to go bigger than 32mm tires? Yes S40, No V20
Do you care about marginal gains and collecting Strava KOM's? Yes V20, No S40
Are your rides more about the hours outside and enjoying the views instead of maximizing miles? Yes S40, No V20

 

[Midnight]

For me (74” tall and 178lbs) I can put down more power on the S40. My local terrain is minimal 50’/mile - 100+/mile. I can’t sustain climbs easily on my V20c but I can on the S40. May be my positioning or weight transfer when going up. Compared to the DF bikes, I raced, MTB, etc for 40+ years, I am not as fast climbing than some. Climbing has never been my strong suit anyway, I’m more of a diesel. There is no comparison to riding the S40 or the V20c on long rides. I love it, bikes just want to eat up more miles. I’m selective about the type climbs and lean to the S40 with group rides to be part of the effort, drafting and providing draft for others. S40 is also a bit easier to converse with others when in groups, but not significantl.

 

[Mathew Fy]

My 2¢
The V20 has much better comfort for longer rides, especially >200K. The lower angle distributes more weight to your back, reducing "recumbutt".

I, like many others, ride with my head & shoulders elevated (compared to the stock V20) for improved comfort and visibility, sacrificing some aerodynamics.

The current S40 & V20c can both take larger tires. I currently have on my V20c a 38mm on front and a 34mm on back. I'll keep these on for the rough spring roads in my area and switch to narrow tires whenever aerodynamics are more important. Neither bike will allow bunny hopping over a bump. The best I can do is lift my butt off the seat to float over the bumps.

Regarding climbing, I can hold about 8% for an extended time before running out of juice. A brief 15-20% is okay as long as there's not a lot of loose material, otherwise I start to spin out. Here is where the S40 has some advantage. Having more weight on the front (drive) wheel helps with traction and pulmonary mechanics are a little better.

For sun protection, I use a thin material like Buff. Sometimes I use a helmet with a visor, others use a hat with a brim under their helmet.

 

[Frito Bandito]

For sun protection, I use a thin material like Buff. Sometimes I use a helmet with a visor, others use a hat with a brim under their helmet.

I got my visor for my Limar Speed King helmet sorted a while back with a SHOEI CJ-3 lense and really like it. here because I don't wanna thread jack. Page 35 near the bottom

 

[Damien]

@Alex The beginning wasn't easy. For the first few hundred kilometers, my muscles weren't trained yet, and climbing hills was tough. Since I live in a hilly area near the mountains, I don't have many flat routes. However, after a month and a half, I did my first mountain test, and it went well.

That was in the autumn. I spent the whole winter training on a Cruzbike trainer to get ready for the brevet season, which helped a lot. In 2025, I did all my cycling events on the S40, except for one 300 km brevet. I couldn't use it because a mechanic overtightened a clamp on the MBB, and I had to order a replacement part from the USA.

Now, a recumbent bike is my first choice for medium and long distances. This includes mountain routes, though I’d think twice if the climb is steeper than 15%. Front-wheel drive has its limits.

I also value comfort. For my daily commute, I got an Azub Mini—it’s like the Lexus (full air suspension - front and rear) of city bikes! Rear-wheel drive recumbents are better for winter conditions and can handle steeper climbs. That has been my experience so far.

BTW. If you're thinking about long distances, keep in mind that the S40 offers more options for mounting luggage and full fenders. It makes life much easier. I installed an SKS rack using straps, but I'm not entirely happy with it—it's heavy and not that quick to set up. If you live in the USA, go for the original rack without hesitation. At least you won't have to pay a fortune for shipping.

 

[Alex]

This discussion makes me feel that a Cruzbike would not only be a great platform to unlock potentially pain-free ultra rides, but I am seriously considering making the switch even if I can get my back problems in order. Right now, I am going through some PT in one last attempt to resolve the back problems, but if this does not work out, I guarantee you will see me riding a Cruzbike at the end of spring. Maybe you will also see me riding one if my back heals up.

@RojoRacing: Thank you for the questionnaire! I had not even thought about maximum tire widths on the V20. I answered the first two questions solidly in favor of the S40 and was a bit torn on the last one. Sounds like S40 overall then, especially since @Midnight and @Mathew Fy mentioned it climbs better.

@Damien: Thank you, hearing about the transition from regular bike to Cruzbike and the related challenges is super interesting! After my couple of short test rides, I could definitely not imagine climbing any serious mountain, but it sounds like you felt similarly in the beginning and it just takes time. If I remember one of your initial posts correctly, you said that you did not have any trouble on the upright bike, you switched to the recumbent just out of curiosity. If so, what made you stick with the Cruzbike and go through this hairy transition period?

Some follow-up questions - maybe some of you long-distance machines have experiences to share:
1. Does anybody ride an upright bike and a Cruzbike to roughly the same extent? Does that make sense? Or do you usually commit to one platform, adapt your body as best as possible, and progress from there?
2. Reading this forum, recumbutt and hotfoot seem to be the most frequent sources of discomfort when riding a Cruzbike. Is it normal to be affected or is it just a fraction of riders who have to experiment to make the bike work perfectly for them?
3. @Boreen bimbler's post made me wonder: Has anyone ever everested on a Cruzbike?

 

[Karl42]

I love climbing on my V20, and I got into long distance riding (Brevets with up to 600 km / 372 mi) over the last years. I use my upright bike for commuting several times a week, but that is for much shorter (1-hour) distances. I would not do a Brevet on the upright ever, as the V20 is much faster and more comfortable. But fitness training does have some amount of crossover between the two bikes.

The reclined position of the V20 is an advantage in the flats because it reduces pressure on the butt muscles and is more aero, but going uphill, it reduces power output in various ways relative to the more upright sitting position of the S40. That's why people have built several methods to change the seat angle for going uphill. You can find them on this forum. I also have the parts ready to build my own variable seat angle solution for the V20 but have not finished it yet, so I keep experimenting with just sitting upright while going uphill, and with practice and training that does most of the job for shorter hills and trains the abs for that six-pack.

Foot-pain on very long rides is real, and is my biggest weakness on this bike. On a recumbent maybe there is less blood circulation into the feet or something. Getting the right shoes with the right insoles, reducing pressure on the feet with higher cadence, taking breaks, improving the fit, etc., all help, but this remains a weak spot for me. Riding ultra distances can amplify every little problem into a big problem. The riders who only do shorter distances might not ever encounter any problems.

For the sun, a visor greatly helps. Also discussed in this forum.

In conclusion: The V20(c) is a great bike for ultra-long distances, and I would prefer it over the S40, mainly because on my older recumbent with a more upright seat angle I also had the painful butt-muscle problem. On the V20, I have additional padding on the seat to support my lower back, and with that, if I engage the right muscles in my back, there is little to no pressure on the butt whatsoever, sustainable over long distances.
If you just want to do climbing, the S40 might be better, but for mixed terrain, the V20 probably wins. Or if you are ambitious, get a V20 and build your own variable seat-angle solution. Or just train your abs so that you can sit upright for a while while going up short hills.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

Re. Everesting on a CB. It was the first thing came to my mind when I got one. Officially for some unknown reason you can't Everest a recumbent and have it verified. People have asked Andy but I think no one ever got an answer. Maybe it's changed as the whole Everesting thing has changed since covid times and I havn't checked the rules lately. Obviously you could do it unofficially. You'd want a shallow'ish hill though so it would be a long one.
Re. your back pain. If there is no real medical reason or it's lingering pain from an old injury "pain reprocessing therapy" might help. If there is a medical reason it wont. I've been doing this guy's stuff for only a couple of weeks and it's already helped me. It's PRT mixed with other things but watch his video on what neuroplastic pain is to see if it might be suitable first. https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapy
I may one day Everest again if I can ever get to the stage where I can actually train.

 

[Alex]

@Karl42: Wow, 600 km is proper ultra! Thanks for sharing your positive experiences and also the pain points. I looked into the variable seat angle conversion for the V20 - that looks like a really cool project. Now there even more choices: S40, V20, and V20+!

@Boreen bimbler: Thanks for the link to PRT! I am afraid this is not applicable to me, because there is a tangible physiological reason for the pain I feel. After a long search for the reason behind the pain, it now seems that a muscle in my butt (right gluteus medius) does not engage properly, which causes a muscle in the back (right quadratus lumborum) to take over to keep the pelvis stable. Since it is not meant for this job, it spasms painfully after a short while. It turns out that even with lots of training, this issue is quite hard to fix. I am hoping that the altered biomechanics on a Cruzbike will allow me to ride pain-free again. Specifically, I am hoping that the ability to brace against the backrest relieves the affected muscles from their stabilization duties.

 

[Boreen bimbler]

Your right. It certainly wont help with that. Fibromyalgia is my problem so completely different. Hope you manage to get it sorted.

 

[Damien]

@Alex
What made me stay? I’m a bike freak and I love cycling—recumbents are my new passion; it’s like discovering bikes all over again. It’s more comfortable and fun... a real breath of fresh air. And don’t overthink the learning process. I didn’t have much trouble—on my first day, I rode 21 km in the park. I only fell once because my shoelaces got caught in the crank .

I totally understand your worries about 'recumbutt' and other issues, but personally, I haven’t experienced any of that. My only advice is to give yourself time to adapt—don't jump straight into difficult routes. I liked recumbents so much that I recently bought another one, an Azub.

To be honest, after getting used to the Cruzbike where the legs move with the steering, riding an RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) recumbent bikes feels strange now. The Cruzbike is definitely more agile and, more importantly, much more stable and calm on fast descents. Also, like others said, I recommend a cap with a long visor—standard cycling caps are useless in the sun.