Hand fatigue

[Osiris]

I rarely do rides over 40 miles, but even after an hour or so of steady riding, I can already begin to feel fatigue in the muscles in my hands from having to pull/push on the bars to counteract pedal steer. The muscle soreness I experience after a ride takes more than a day to recover from, so riding on two or three consecutive days causes the soreness to steadily increase. I've tried relaxing my grip slightly, but I can't keep the front wheel tracking straight when I do.

Is this something that will go away in time, or is it just a fact of life when riding a MBB style recumbent?

 

[BJ686]

I noticed that issue when I first started riding my V20, and eventually was able to trace it back to my unconsciously using a "death grip" on the handlebars on my initial rides. After more miles and getting comfortable using a lighter grip, the issue went away.

You mentioned that you need to keep a firm grip to keep the front wheel tracking straight---I think that issue will go away with more miles. I've gotten to the point where I can pedal straight without using my hands to guide the front wheel, and there are even folks on here that can pedal straight with no hands on the handlebars.

You may also want to try different variations in arm extension and wrist angle. I'm not sure if one approach works best for everyone, but in my setup I try to have the handlebars positioned where my arms are relatively straight, but with some bend at the elbow. Also, I rotate the handle bars so that my wrist angle is fairly straight (ie, wrists not in a permanent cocked/bent position).

Hope that helps

 

[Osiris]

I noticed that issue when I first started riding my V20, and eventually was able to trace it back to my unconsciously using a "death grip" on the handlebars on my initial rides. After more miles and getting comfortable using a lighter grip, the issue went away.

You mentioned that you need to keep a firm grip to keep the front wheel tracking straight---I think that issue will go away with more miles. I've gotten to the point where I can pedal straight without using my hands to guide the front wheel, and there are even folks on here that can pedal straight with no hands on the handlebars.

You may also want to try different variations in arm extension and wrist angle. I'm not sure if one approach works best for everyone, but in my setup I try to have the handlebars positioned where my arms are relatively straight, but with some bend at the elbow. Also, I rotate the handle bars so that my wrist angle is fairly straight (ie, wrists not in a permanent cocked/bent position).

Hope that helps

It does. I experimented with the handlebar location when I first got the V20, but finally settled on a position which places my arms at almost full extension. The vertical orientation of the grips felt very natural, so I didn't change that, although I did turn the brake handles inward slightly.

 

[hurri47]

I've tried relaxing my grip slightly, but I can't keep the front wheel tracking straight when I do.

You will.

-Dan

 

[hurri47]

It does. I experimented with the handlebar location when I first got the V20, but finally settled on a position which places my arms at almost full extension. The vertical orientation of the grips felt very natural, so I didn't change that, although I did turn the brake handles inward slightly.

"Arms at almost full extension" doesn't sound like a relaxed position to me. Possibly this is why you are having trouble relaxing the "death grip."

I mean, aero is great and all, and I went through a period of wanting my arms out to steer from the shoulders to save my arm muscles, but the "slight bend at the elbow" that we all talk about turned out to be better for me once I had a bit of practice.

-Dan

 

[1happyreader]

I rarely do rides over 40 miles, but even after an hour or so of steady riding, I can already begin to feel fatigue in the muscles in my hands from having to pull/push on the bars to counteract pedal steer. The muscle soreness I experience after a ride takes more than a day to recover from, so riding on two or three consecutive days causes the soreness to steadily increase. I've tried relaxing my grip slightly, but I can't keep the front wheel tracking straight when I do.

Is this something that will go away in time, or is it just a fact of life when riding a MBB style recumbent?

Sounds like you never did the " palms out " riding drills .
If you are not comfortable with that , at least try thumb and one finger " the okay sign" for your anti-death grip drills.
IMHO You are fighting the bike , and losing. Try and feel what the bike wants to do.
PS: Chin up,, eyes on the horizion, SMILE, relax those shoulders. don't worry about the boom. just go. you might be micro managing your steering.

 

[jond]

I rarely do rides over 40 miles, but even after an hour or so of steady riding, I can already begin to feel fatigue in the muscles in my hands from having to pull/push on the bars to counteract pedal steer. The muscle soreness I experience after a ride takes more than a day to recover from, so riding on two or three consecutive days causes the soreness to steadily increase. I've tried relaxing my grip slightly, but I can't keep the front wheel tracking straight when I do.

Is this something that will go away in time, or is it just a fact of life when riding a MBB style recumbent?

For me personally on hilly terrain I can still experience sore hands. That is because of the higher effort to climb requires active steering input. You have though choices you can pull back same side on power stroke or push opposite side. In reality I do both at high wattage but below 200watts I don’t need to. At 150 -180 watts I can ride hands free..........for a while.......

Let that boom move a little more under low load (majority of ride) use that open palm drill.

May I also suggest double taping your bars and use of all hand positions changing regularly from hoods to drops and centre if you dare.

I always gently stretch before after including hands arms and this helps with muscle soreness.

Finally perhaps your arms are too straight with little bend at elbow or as you say it may be simply something that will improve with time.

Not riding every other day is a non negotiable lol

 

[super slim]

For me personally on hilly terrain I can still experience sore hands. That is because of the higher effort to climb requires active steering input. You have though choices you can pull back same side on power stroke or push opposite side. In reality I do both at high wattage but below 200watts I don’t need to. At 150 -180 watts I can ride hands free..........for a while.......

Let that boom move a little more under low load (majority of ride) use that open palm drill.

May I also suggest double taping your bars and use of all hand positions changing regularly from hoods to drops and centre if you dare.

I always gently stretch before after including hands arms and this helps with muscle soreness.

Finally perhaps your arms are too straight with little bend at elbow or as you say it may be simply something that will improve with time.

Not riding every other day is a non negotiable lol

Double taping the bars makes a big difference, as long as you have large hands!!!
Being able to move the hand to different positions, so the wrist angle changes helps.

 

[bladderhead]

Maybe your brain just needs more miles. I suddenly discovered I can do no-hands. Gets a bit scary above 14mph. Maybe you need to change the hand-position. I was moving the boom and the BB so much I could have been a trombonist, and I tried several handlebars, and even cut some, until I got a comfortable configuration. I hold the bars really tight in the high-watt situations. There aren't many of those and they don't go on long.

If you push with your right foot and the bike goes left, then your right foot must go left too. Try to push your feet outwards on the powerstroke.

 

[RAR]

Don't fight the bike ! You must work with the bike. It is not a diamond frame, don't ride it like one. When I learned to Spin instead of Mash I became one with the bike.

 

[Osiris]

OK, so I've been reading the responses so far and I think a bit of clarification might be in order. First, I don't use a "death grip" on the handlebars. That's something I did on my very first ride, but I found that a "firm" grip is all that's needed to keep the handlebars from moving. The muscle soreness is actually pretty mild, but I'm concerned that if I decide to do a century ride rather than just my usual 30 mile loop, it could become much worse.

I keep my arms pretty straight, but with a slight bend at the elbows. This is the arm position I've seen in photos of other Cruzbike riders as well as in the instructional videos, and I don't find it at all tiring. I was able to hold that same arm position on my Bacchetta for over six hours, essentially steering with my shoulders, just as I do on the V20.

Changing my hand position isn't something I've tried yet, but it sounds promising. I've been keeping my hands where they need to be in case I have to brake suddenly, but I suppose on long open roads it would be safe to rest them on the hoods. Part of it also has to do with my style of riding. Rather than maintaining an even speed like most people do, my rides are more like interval training. If I see a long straight or a short hill, I'll hammer the pedals as hard as I can, and then rest. Sometimes I'll just be coasting along, and then hit it hard if another rider tries to pass me. I absolutely refuse to be passed by anyone on a diamond frame! But those huge jumps in power output mean that my hands have to be where they can apply the most leverage, which is at the ends of the bars.

As far as keeping the front wheel straight goes, I try to completely eliminate side to side movement when pedaling. I've ridden a number of times with another Cruzbike owner, and everyone in our group noticed that he couldn't keep his front wheel straight, despite the fact that he'd been riding a V20 exclusively for years. I'm not sure that a slight front end weave is necessarily a bad thing, but it's something I try to prevent for "aesthetic" reasons.

Hopefully I'll get the V20 back from the shop this weekend so I can get some more miles in. It's now equipped with a Di2 system, which should permit one finger gear changes, making it much easier to keep a solid grip on the bars in a sprint.

 

[MrSteve]

When a Diamond Frame bike rider sprints, the bike will rock from side to side;
when a D.F. bike rider sprints, the front wheel will point left-right in time with the side to side rocking.
Your friendly long-time V20 pilot is doing this.

If your intention is to track as straight as possible under power?
You will have to rock something else from side to side.
Your hips, head, shoulders, knees, and torso can all fill the bill.
Experiment with what works for you and have fun!

This is my opinion based on my experience.
Your experience may vary.

 

[Osiris]

When a Diamond Frame bike rider sprints, the bike will rock from side to side;
when a D.F. bike rider sprints, the front wheel will point left-right in time with the side to side rocking.
Your friendly long-time V20 pilot is doing this.

He wobbles all the time, even while cruising along at a modest pace. That suggests to me that his timing is off. Once I got used to riding the V20, I had a friend follow me to keep an eye on my front wheel. I was able to hold it perfectly straight, just as when I'm riding my other RWD recumbents. Now the only front end weave I get on the V20 is when suddenly changing either my cadence or power output. Hopefully in time I'll figure out just how much pressure to apply to the handlebars to cancel out pedal steer entirely.

 

[1happyreader]

Wow,,,, wobbles are really important to you.

on the plus side,, MBB will teach you if you have a dominant side,,,, errrr rather if one of your legs is applying more power. that will wobble you for sure.
reminds me,,, I need to work on my weak leg.

 

[Osiris]

Wow,,,, wobbles are really important to you.

Well of course. A wobbly front wheel doesn't just look bad, it wastes energy. Each time your wheel deflects to one side, some of the power you've put into the pedal stroke is lost. Multiply that by the thousands of pedal strokes you perform during a ride, and you end up with a sizable loss in efficiency.

 

[ElyDave]

how much energy are you putting into preventing front wheel wobbles vs the energy cost of the wobbles themselves? Sounds like quite a lot if it's making your hands ache

 

[Osiris]

how much energy are you putting into preventing front wheel wobbles vs the energy cost of the wobbles themselves? Sounds like quite a lot if it's making your hands ache

Or it could just be that the muscles in my hands aren't used to applying any amount of pressure for an hour or more. Also, squeezing the grips isn't putting an extra load on my leg muscles, so there is no loss of pedaling efficiency resulting from it.

 

[ElyDave]

you are likely to be over compensating in a whole load of other ways, the tension in hands/arms is the outcome, not the cause.

Relax

 

[tiltmaniac]

I might wobble when going slowly uphill.
I barely wobble at all on the flats unless really sprinting.

I was developing trigger finger and had more soreness with the angle of my grip pointing away from me.

Imagine a flag that you are holding in your right hand, thumb up. If the flag is pointing away from you, that is the position that was causing me trouble.

I later oriented my grip so that a (virtual) flag would point above my head. With this orientation of my grip, I had *zero* trouble.

So, you might want to play around with rotating the bars to change your grip orientation. Who knows, it might work for you like it did for me!

 

[Osiris]

I might wobble when going slowly uphill.
I barely wobble at all on the flats unless really sprinting.

I was developing trigger finger and had more soreness with the angle of my grip pointing away from me.

Imagine a flag that you are holding in your right hand, thumb up. If the flag is pointing away from you, that is the position that was causing me trouble.

I later oriented my grip so that a (virtual) flag would point above my head. With this orientation of my grip, I had *zero* trouble.

So, you might want to play around with rotating the bars to change your grip orientation. Who knows, it might work for you like it did for me!

That's an excellent suggestion. Putting the bars at the angle you suggested would put my wrist at a more relaxed angle, and provide some support for my hands. The angle of the brake levers might have something to do with my discomfort as well. For some reason the SRAM levers have a sideways bend at the base, which the Di2 shifters I'm replacing them with don't. Hopefully the new brake levers will allow my wrists to be more in line with my forearms and relieve some stress on the tendons. I should have the V20 back tomorrow, so I'll be curious to see how all of this works out.