Hand fatigue
- Thread starter Osiris
- Start date
snilard
Guru of hot glue gun
Yes, It will go away, I don't feel any fatigue in my hands even on whole day ride. You will never ride totaly straight as on RWD recumbent. So you have to learn that little wobble is ok.
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murmur
Member
I don't think the energy from the wobble is *lost*. Where would it go? If you're doing the wobble correctly, it's going to propel you and the bike. Haven't we been through this already?
If you're doing the wobble wrong, I doubt severely if your arms are seeing any more energy expenditure than for a perfect no-wobble force-cancelling ride technique. There just isn't anywhere for that energy to go.
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Osiris
Zen MBB Master
No. Here we're talking about the kind of wobble that occurs when someone new to MBB hasn't yet learned the technique of counteracting pedal steer.
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
The more time you put in on the bike the more relaxed your grip will get, especially if you are just cruising. I have found that eventually the leg muscles will adapt and be able to pretty much steer the bike on their own. Things that help this for me where:
practice spinning really fast >100 - this helps even out your pedal stroke
pedal drills - practice apply power during the entire revolution. One leg pedals drills - best initially done on the trainer. This will also even out the pedal steer
and of course - time, time, time, time, and miles. I have found that after only about 45,000 miles and 2300 hours I can ride well with hardly no hand arm input all
Of course when you are laying into it at full power, you want you upper body engaged as much as possible for power and safety.
practice spinning really fast >100 - this helps even out your pedal stroke
pedal drills - practice apply power during the entire revolution. One leg pedals drills - best initially done on the trainer. This will also even out the pedal steer
and of course - time, time, time, time, and miles. I have found that after only about 45,000 miles and 2300 hours I can ride well with hardly no hand arm input all
Of course when you are laying into it at full power, you want you upper body engaged as much as possible for power and safety.
murmur
Member
I'd still like to understand the fabled no-hands Cruzbike technique. I mean, without simplifying it too much:
- Foot push on pedal, only one side.
- Bar/Boom/Crank/FrontWheel turn
- How to stop turn? Hands.
Wait, I bet I know. Only do downhill rides. You can stop pedaling, and everything goes straight.
- Foot push on pedal, only one side.
- Bar/Boom/Crank/FrontWheel turn
- How to stop turn? Hands.
Wait, I bet I know. Only do downhill rides. You can stop pedaling, and everything goes straight.
Rampa
Guru
If your boom is even a few millimeters to short, you'll wobble like that. Extend it 3-5 mm, and the wobble will likely go away.
"Timing off" is how I characterize that as well. The pedal is at full reach slightly before the power stroke is done, so the extra bit of power stroke then levers the boom sideways.
"Timing off" is how I characterize that as well. The pedal is at full reach slightly before the power stroke is done, so the extra bit of power stroke then levers the boom sideways.
PeteClark
Active Member
I cannot ride the V "no-hands" yet, but I can feel how it is possible. Occasionally I make a few pedal strokes that make the bike surge ahead in a straight line without any compensation by my arms. Theoretically I should be able to push the pedal forward and just slightly outward (~2 degrees) such that the boom would not move sideways. This might sound like it would require extrordinarilly fine motor control, but it is probably comparable to what we do when we walk or run. I do hope to develop such skill on the V someday, but am already enjoying the ride even Though I need both hands on the bars most of the time.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
Look at the speed-skaters in the Olympics. Their legs go outwards each time they take a step. If it is difficult coordinating it, practise by doing it with a low cadence.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
The more time you put in on the bike the more relaxed your grip will get, especially if you are just cruising. I have found that eventually the leg muscles will adapt and be able to pretty much steer the bike on their own. Things that help this for me where:
practice spinning really fast >100 - this helps even out your pedal stroke
pedal drills - practice apply power during the entire revolution. One leg pedals drills - best initially done on the trainer. This will also even out the pedal steer
and of course - time, time, time, time, and miles. I have found that after only about 45,000 miles and 2300 hours I can ride well with hardly no hand arm input all
Of course when you are laying into it at full power, you want you upper body engaged as much as possible for power and safety.
My V20 has been in the shop for the past three weeks, waiting to have your Di2 stuff installed. In the meantime, I had no choice but to ride my M5. What I didn't realize was that after 400+ miles on the V20, my arms had gotten so accustomed to pulling/pushing on the handlebars that it made riding the M5 for more than a few yards nearly impossible. Imperceptible muscle movements in my arms caused it to weave all over the place, and the faster I'd go, the worse it became. It took about 45 minutes of steady riding before my body re-learned how to ride it. With any luck, I should be getting the V20 back today, but after 3 weeks of riding the M5 exclusively, I don't know whether I'll be able to ride it!
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
I very often ride my Cruzbikes with no hands. And while there really isn't a good reason to do this, learning how to (almost) ride with no hands means that you don't have to use your upper body when riding.
First, try riding where you aren't pulling on the handlebars, only pushing. Niiiice and steaaady, keep practicing until you can ride without closing your hands on the handlebars. Then less and less pressure.
It might take a while. In my case, I found that being clipped in helped learning this a lot (although it is not necessary; I can ride with no hands without clipping in).
First, try riding where you aren't pulling on the handlebars, only pushing. Niiiice and steaaady, keep practicing until you can ride without closing your hands on the handlebars. Then less and less pressure.
It might take a while. In my case, I found that being clipped in helped learning this a lot (although it is not necessary; I can ride with no hands without clipping in).
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Being able to do a speed skating step slowly takes a lot of skill. If you skate, it's worth trying to learn how to do this slowly.
For riding a bike with no hands, I recommend a medium-slow cadence. I don't like to do it too slowly, but somewhere between 60 and 80 rpm isn't crazy.
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
Were you already accustomed to riding a Cruzbike at the time? The reason I ask is because I had the same experience on my mountain bike a couple of weeks ago. I could't even keep the front wheel straight in the parking lot. But before I got used to riding a MBB, it took no effort at all to keep the front wheel on any DF or bent in my collection perfectly straight while pedaling. It's just a matter of giving the brain time to adjust.
nobrakes
Well-Known Member
I am still going through a similar thing. Did a 55 miler today. Spent the first 20 fighting the bike and getting sore arms. Spent the next 20 thinking that I was getting into a better groove, and the last 15 I felt like I had moments where me and the bike actually agreed on where we were going. I can see it will take time. It doesn’t help that winter enforced a 4 month hiatus just as I was starting to get comfortable. I’ve been triking and turbo training mostly and all the little nuances have been lost again. I’m going to make a big effort to spend lots of time practicing now, I can’t take my left hand off the bars for fear of crashing lol
murmur
Member
Oh, I get it now. But... the geometry of the S30 makes it look more like 10-degrees-outward pedaling force would be needed to keep from turning the boom. Sounds kind of knee-ligament-intensive, i.e. not for those of us whose knee ligaments are already dealing with a lack of stability in the joint.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
If the bike steers, your leg goes sideways. What you are trying to do is apply enough force to prevent this. This is hardly any force at all. If your legs do actually go out sideways you will still be wobbling the bike. If you can get the bike to stay straight your knees will not be stressed.
PeteClark
Active Member
I find it helps to think about keeping my knees just a bit closer together than they would track by themselves. This would promote pushing slightly outward without any lateral strain on the knee. It also helps to strive for a smooth, circular pedal stroke (just tilt the plane of the circle out in the front and in at the back).
Osiris
Zen MBB Master
Just got my V20 back from the shop. It took them 3 weeks to finish installing the Di2 system, so in the meantime I've been riding my M5. I was afraid that in all that time, I would have to learn to ride a MBB all over again. Happily my fears were unwarranted! There was a bit of a wobble when I first started pedaling, but seconds later it was gone. Can't wait to take it out for a real ride tomorrow.
hurri47
Well-Known Member
My V20 has been in the shop for the past three weeks, waiting to have your Di2 stuff installed. In the meantime, I had no choice but to ride my M5. What I didn't realize was that after 400+ miles on the V20, my arms had gotten so accustomed to pulling/pushing on the handlebars that it made riding the M5 for more than a few yards nearly impossible. Imperceptible muscle movements in my arms caused it to weave all over the place, and the faster I'd go, the worse it became. It took about 45 minutes of steady riding before my body re-learned how to ride it. With any luck, I should be getting the V20 back today, but after 3 weeks of riding the M5 exclusively, I don't know whether I'll be able to ride it!
I had the exact same experience with my Barcroft Virginia. Let me assure you that your RWD proficiency will return and stay returned. I can now hop on RWD or FWD and just ride. Brains are remarkable thinks.
-Dan
