My 2020 V20 had SRAM mid/long cage roval RD.
Has anyone changed the cassette to increase gear range?
- Thread starter NadiainLA
- Start date
My 2020 V20 had SRAM mid/long cage roval RD.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
I have a 52/36 and now my cassette is 11-12-13-14-15(1 tooth jump), 17-19-21(2 tooth jump) and 23-26-29(3 tooth jump).
Pedaling like a madman on the 36 (f) and 11(r) can get me up to about 37kph. However, building up to the same speed on the 52 (f) the 2 tooth jumps feels smooth until I hit the 15t which is around 37kph. The 15t feels like a dumbbell was attached to the bike. I have to remember to spin up a bit more on the 17 to make the jump to the 15 not feel so sluggish. Having TT shifters makes it easy to see when I am on the 17 (lever it almost vertical) or 15 (lever is vertical).
Pedaling like a madman on the 36 (f) and 11(r) can get me up to about 37kph. However, building up to the same speed on the 52 (f) the 2 tooth jumps feels smooth until I hit the 15t which is around 37kph. The 15t feels like a dumbbell was attached to the bike. I have to remember to spin up a bit more on the 17 to make the jump to the 15 not feel so sluggish. Having TT shifters makes it easy to see when I am on the 17 (lever it almost vertical) or 15 (lever is vertical).
Mathew Fy
GRU
11-36 should fit. I'm using that cassette size on my V20 using a regular size derailleur. I did have to turn the B screw all the way in to make it happen, but it works well. It's easy to do by yourself.
The major downside of this is that there seems to be a lot of pressure on that screw because it snapped forcing me to limp home in a medium gear. I now carry a spare in my bag.
With 36, 52 chainrings there's a 473% range, from 26.9 to 127 gear inches. A 34, 50 chainring set-up can bring the low end down to 25.2 gear inches, but I found myself frequently wanting more top end gearing.
jond
Zen MBB Master
What are the pros using. Pros would use the most versatile gearing. Sure we are not pros but choice is nice. Was any pro using 1 x in the tour? I don’t know all the bikes looked the same to me 
1x are an admission that gravel bikes are slow
I think the component industry is selling us a three legged pup with 1 x.
it’s marketing sales system that has little benefit over what was and in the case of 1 x systems it’s less. It has become like the bottom bracket multi standard fiasco a marketing ploy to lock in customers to a brand.
Sram etc have so much separate diversity of their drivetrains that are no longer a family of interconnectivity. Gives me nil confidence how long the new will be supported.
remember shimano capreo. ?
keeping it simple on a pushbike will never go out of fashion.......
2x systems are a nice balance of versatility and gear range
1x is a limiting horses for courses with range selection paramount if you don’t want big gaps. It’s benefit simplicity and for downhill bikes. Also probably in my future as I age and get less choice.
3x system is for slim and old mtb riders.
of course for frame builders the nightmare is theirs to contend with. Making @Robert Holler the expert with currency and me a dinosaur cantankerous to the last 2x.
and slim with 3x primordial south Aussie soup.
1x are an admission that gravel bikes are slow
I think the component industry is selling us a three legged pup with 1 x.
it’s marketing sales system that has little benefit over what was and in the case of 1 x systems it’s less. It has become like the bottom bracket multi standard fiasco a marketing ploy to lock in customers to a brand.
Sram etc have so much separate diversity of their drivetrains that are no longer a family of interconnectivity. Gives me nil confidence how long the new will be supported.
remember shimano capreo. ?
keeping it simple on a pushbike will never go out of fashion.......
2x systems are a nice balance of versatility and gear range
1x is a limiting horses for courses with range selection paramount if you don’t want big gaps. It’s benefit simplicity and for downhill bikes. Also probably in my future as I age and get less choice.
3x system is for slim and old mtb riders.
of course for frame builders the nightmare is theirs to contend with. Making @Robert Holler the expert with currency and me a dinosaur cantankerous to the last 2x.
and slim with 3x primordial south Aussie soup.
Yeah.... 1X has been used in the tour de france. I think it was pushed by the sponsor on the riders, and the riders had issues and have gone away from it now. I think issues were from gear range and also chain dropping (with no FD to keep it in on). I think I could live with 1X, but don't see any real advantages for me. One of the attraction to the V20 over other bent options (like M5) was the compatability with any road groupset. I personally like Shimano Di2 which works really nicely on my V20. You could do a 1X version with Di2, but not sure Shimano have the 10 small cassette gear or 12 speed in lower cost versions at the moment.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Jond, a 1X might be nice but the big gaps have me a bit worried. Adrian, I just checked online here and found a Shimano 105 10 speed in 11/28 for about US$45. I believe I have one here at home.
Sorry I did not mean that Frito. I meant an 11 speed cassette with a 10t for the smallest gear which is what is required for a 1X to have good range as mentioned by @bladderhead . I am not aware of any Shimano 11 speed cassette with a 10t. I am not sure what cassettes are available with 10t at all. But I think if something were available it would be great. I would probably be happy with a 50-34 front if I could get a 10-32 cassette. Would be happy to sacrifice a bigger jump at the lower end of the cassette. That would give a top end gear equivalent to a 55t front with 11t rear.
Frito Bandito
Zen MBB Master
Ah, I gotcha. My mistake. I haven't had my coffee yet. I'd love a 10t even if I only get to use it once a month when the wind is perfect.
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
An admission that my lungs are buggered. And I had a Silvio and I now have a S40 and I never had a Vendetta. And the tyres I am hoping to eventually get working will be tubeless. And double chainwheels make me SICK!jond said:
The ratios on 1X are too far apart for the racers, so they have to endure the double chainwheel. I have never noticed the big jumps. When I first got my 1950s Claude Butler it had a single chainwheel and a 6sp cassette whose ratios were 1t apart. I was hardly ever out of the bottom two gears.
The original XX1 sprocket, as used by the original XX1 Cruzbiker, was 11sp and 10t. Both the new 12sp ones are 10t.
super slim
Zen MBB Master
Triples are EASY on a Silvio V1.0 with Chainstay clamps on the BB, with the middle Chainring(39T) lined up with the 7th sprocket (17T), so doing 26 kph at 92 cadence, which is my long distance cruising speed!
The Silvio V2.1 with Chainstay clamps on the BB External bearing caps, required filing on the inside edge of the 24T chainring and some filing on the clamp!
This gives me 5 gears between 20 and 30 kph speed range, using the 39T Q middle chainring that I use for 95% of my riding for less than +- 5% grades!
Us South Australian Power Machines have EXCESS POWER, but limited speed range, so need a triple to keep the revs between 92 and 80 rpm!!!
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I think the Vendetta needs something that can allow pedalling to 50-60kph in the right conditions for those riders who like to push it to its limits. I find I can do 40-45kph for long periods on flat roads... which is fine with 50 ring and up to 11t cassette. But there are times when I am on a long shallow down hill (or tailwind on flat roads) when I am coasting because I can't pedal quick enough with the 50-11. I would love a cassette with 10t for my 2X 11 speed setup. 50t front ring with 10t cassette would be perfect! Has anyone ever done a 10t with a standard Shimano/SRAM freehub?
bladderhead
Zen MBB Master
I think that an old-fashioned hub cannot accommodate 10t. That is what those who want to sell us new hubs would have us believe. You may find some small company making such a sprocket if you look deep into the internet. Garbaruk make a 58t ring. This is supposed to be for 11sp. I use a Garbaruk 11sp ring and a 12sp chain.
Thanks @bladderhead. I thought that may be the case.
So if it was possible to change the freehub to something that supports 10t on my wheels.... are all 10t cassettes aimed at 1X and gravel? Are there any cassettes that are more like a typical road range cassette... like a 10-32 or something like that? All the gravel cassettes I see seem to have very wide range... and the SRAM 10t stuff for road seems to be 12 speed which would have the wrong spacing to frankenstein into an 11 speed.
So if it was possible to change the freehub to something that supports 10t on my wheels.... are all 10t cassettes aimed at 1X and gravel? Are there any cassettes that are more like a typical road range cassette... like a 10-32 or something like that? All the gravel cassettes I see seem to have very wide range... and the SRAM 10t stuff for road seems to be 12 speed which would have the wrong spacing to frankenstein into an 11 speed.
jond
Zen MBB Master
9 speed shimano capreo had a 10t small and a purposed freehub to fit the 10t. It was intended for small wheels read 406 to give top end. Fitted standard by ice trikes with 406 wheels . Chain hop with cheaper chain was a problem on the 10 t. Triple up front.
if it’s possible depending upon your chainset bcd fit a larger chain ring vossi. That’s what is nice about the latest shimano chainset being able to fit all chainring sizes. Shifting a revised 52-34 is possible I’ve done it feels same as the oem 52-36. That was ultegra 11 Spd mechanical. Interesting shimano is resisting a 10t cassette route again after their capreo experience.
I agree it’s easy enough to pedal out a compact on a vendetta. As such if possible the cheapest option where possible is a larger chainring.
if it’s possible depending upon your chainset bcd fit a larger chain ring vossi. That’s what is nice about the latest shimano chainset being able to fit all chainring sizes. Shifting a revised 52-34 is possible I’ve done it feels same as the oem 52-36. That was ultegra 11 Spd mechanical. Interesting shimano is resisting a 10t cassette route again after their capreo experience.
I agree it’s easy enough to pedal out a compact on a vendetta. As such if possible the cheapest option where possible is a larger chainring.
If I was to stay within shimano rules, my desired setup is 52-36 front with 11-34 rear. I am tempted to frankenstein something with a bigger big ring... something in the 53-55 range. That is outside the capacity of the RD, but would probably work OK. But the 50-34 with 10-32 sounds awesome if it could be done... but it seems it cannot.
I find I need more range on the Vendetta than my DF. I am very happy with 52-36 and 11-28 on that which has less range. On the DF, I can do lower cadence with more stability on a climb and can standup if needed for a really steep pinch. Then at the other end, I am more comfortable at high cadence at high speed on the DF, so I can spin the 52-11 out to 60+kph and still make descent power.
I find I need more range on the Vendetta than my DF. I am very happy with 52-36 and 11-28 on that which has less range. On the DF, I can do lower cadence with more stability on a climb and can standup if needed for a really steep pinch. Then at the other end, I am more comfortable at high cadence at high speed on the DF, so I can spin the 52-11 out to 60+kph and still make descent power.
Mathew Fy
GRU
I took my 'fire & ice' V20 out today. I had originally just planned to have this used frame as a trainer only bike, but I can't seem to leave well enough alone.
The drive train is Rotor 1x 48 tooth elliptical driving SRAM Eagle 10-52 cassette on Zipp 303 Firecrest. This gives a 520% range. (Compared to the 473% on my other V with 36,52 driving 11-36)
Now if I really wanted some range I'd go with the set-up I have on my S40 for 617% range of gears, but I think this'll work for me.
Anyway, I'm finding myself very rarely looking for that extra gear - either low or top end. You know, when you hit that shifter for the next one, but you're already there.
Here's today's video so you can see how the high gear does with a slight downhill. (Darn UPS truck messed up my rhythm.)
https://youtu.be/S6E262MvGk8
The drive train is Rotor 1x 48 tooth elliptical driving SRAM Eagle 10-52 cassette on Zipp 303 Firecrest. This gives a 520% range. (Compared to the 473% on my other V with 36,52 driving 11-36)
Now if I really wanted some range I'd go with the set-up I have on my S40 for 617% range of gears, but I think this'll work for me.
Anyway, I'm finding myself very rarely looking for that extra gear - either low or top end. You know, when you hit that shifter for the next one, but you're already there.
Here's today's video so you can see how the high gear does with a slight downhill. (Darn UPS truck messed up my rhythm.)
https://youtu.be/S6E262MvGk8
jond
Zen MBB Master
gosh Mathew nice video. What are the teeth numbers on a 10-52 dinner plate cassette. How heavy is it compared to a 2x?
Do you feel locked in to sram now.?
once upon a time sram made gripshift shifters compatible with shimano front and rear mechs. Accommodating the 2 to 1 ratio pull. I have it on my hpv streetmachine.
Sram also made their proprietary 1 to 1 pull ratio shifters gripshift thumbies and their version of trigger mtb rapid fire. That was Back in the nine speed days. I still ride nine speed bikes happily enjoying the longer wearing everything.
enter the 10 speed days and sram mtb and road pull ratios being the same made their grouppo interchangeable interchangeable and any shimano or sram cassette would do with a sram mtb long cage. Great brifters or thumbies or twisters or trigger shift with sram long cage and 11-36 cassette with a 52-34 front chainset gets you everywhere.
enter 11 speed you buy this road grouppo or that mtb grouppo but cassettes were still mostly interchangeable
Reenter the 10t on a cassette requiring again a specific free hub and now we have 12 speed cassettes from 10 to 50 something ...You are consigned to it in a monogamous latest and greatest till it’s not. Shimano capreo is virtually impossible now to find.will this happen again.....probably yes it will.
sadly sram has jumped and discontinued lines like the powertap hubs in favour of what I call a new standard of cynical marketing strategy. So sram too has form as promised support slips from the radar on the back of the latest 14 speed 1x 9x60 lol.
integrated power meters not portable power meters. Specific groupsets standing alone have become the norm. Versatility is out. It’s a different bike for all surfaces thought of and give me your money now or we will retool tomorrow instead of next week.
at this time I would not buy anything but shimano in protest of SRAMs painful ploy.
as a dinosaur I’m advocating a dream return to 8 speed with a triple..something so tough and versatile they just had to make it 9 speed etc etc.
how long does a 12 speed chain last compared to a eight speed.
